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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: Hound Dawg on June 27, 2018, 12:02:38 AM
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Hi CVO Peeps.....
The last time I was on here I was very excited about getting my FLHTCUSE7, and I loved that bike. I just sold her. Her name was Lucy. I had the orange one.
Now I'm planning to buy a 2018 (or '19) CVO Limited (assuming they make a Limited in 2019).
My questions is: What is the current thinking when it comes to immediate modifications when it comes to the M8? When I was on here, I followed the general consensus and got a HD Super Tuner and Fullsac header pipes with slip on mufflers. Is this same for the M8? I thought I heard that the Super Tuners are no longer allowed etc.. Whats the scoop? What pipes? How do I tune for more air etc...
Thanx a ton in advance and excuse my absence,
HD
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World has changed. Make any of those aftermarket changes to the engine or exhaust from the past and you’ll void your factory warranty. Which you may very well need if you buy a 2018. Read up on “sumping” and SB1450. It applies to ALL 2017 and 2018 bikes with the Milwaukee 8 engine.
My recommendation: Wait for the 2019s. If you buy the 2019 install ONLY HD components on the engine, exhaust and drivetrain for the first 2 yrs (factory warranty).
You have alot of catching up to do.
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World has changed. Make any of those aftermarket changes to the engine or exhaust from the past and you’ll void your factory warranty. Which you may very well need if you buy a 2018. Read up on “sumping” and SB1450. It applies to ALL 2017 and 2018 bikes with the Milwaukee 8 engine.
My recommendation: Wait for the 2019s. If you buy the 2019 install ONLY HD components on the engine, exhaust and drivetrain for the first 2 yrs (factory warranty).
You have alot of catching up to do.
x2.
If you have a note to excuse your absence, you will not be marked as unexcused. ;D
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World has changed. Make any of those aftermarket changes to the engine or exhaust from the past and you’ll void your factory warranty. Which you may very well need if you buy a 2018. Read up on “sumping” and SB1450. It applies to ALL 2017 and 2018 bikes with the Milwaukee 8 engine.
My recommendation: Wait for the 2019s. If you buy the 2019 install ONLY HD components on the engine, exhaust and drivetrain for the first 2 yrs (factory warranty).
You have a lot of catching up to do.
My local dealer was more than willing to sell/install a catless header and claimed it would not void the warranty. Super Tune, changing ECM map, on the other hand, is strictly verboten. That same goes for non-HD parts in the motor, a strict no-no.
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My local dealer was more than willing to sell/install a catless header and claimed it would not void the warranty. Super Tune, changing ECM map, on the other hand, is strictly verboten. That same goes for non-HD parts in the motor, a strict no-no.
Just remember, you were warned. There are tons of guys that have recently had their factory warranties voided for far less than using a non epa tuner. Good luck.
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Just remember, you were warned. There are tons if guys that have had their factory warranties voided for far less than using a non eoa tuner. Good luck.
:o :o :o
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My local dealer was more than willing to sell/install a catless header and claimed it would not void the warranty. Super Tune, changing ECM map, on the other hand, is strictly verboten. That same goes for non-HD parts in the motor, a strict no-no.
Simon, changing environmental control systems is specifically forbidden in the factory warranty language. Cars, bikes, probably even unicycles. Making changes there give company all the opportunity they might need to deny warranty and opens the dealership and the company up to significant penalty from the Federal and some state governments. That the dealer does it and says it doesn't mean it's not a worry if a parsimonious factory rep is in the wrong place at the right time or you need help at some other dealership someday.
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Simon, changing environmental control systems is specifically forbidden in the factory warranty language. Cars, bikes, probably even unicycles. Making changes there give company all the opportunity they might need to deny warranty and opens the dealership and the company up to significant penalty from the Federal and some state governments. That the dealer does it and says it doesn't mean it's not a worry if a parsimonious factory rep is in the wrong place at the right time or you need help at some other dealership someday.
Not only that, the employee who made this statement will have convenient memory loss if this becomes an issue...or he/she will have moved on and not even work there any longer. See how fast this causes a retreat - ask the dealership employee who promised this to send you that by email and please cc the owner or general mgr.
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Personally I would wait for the '19s to come out and if no improvements have been made buy a used 17 or 18 and use the savings to make improvements. Or buy another brand. If we keep buying mocos chitty product it will never get better.. If you loved your old bike you will probably regret ever selling it. But hey, good luck with your purchase .
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Don't forget to checkout the threads from many of us who love our M8 cvo's and have put thousands of trouble free miles on them. Just saying!
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Thanks y'all. I believe the going conclusion is a '19 CVO (hopefully some version of orange, or at least a bright color) and leave it completely stock.
More to come...
HD
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Don't forget to checkout the threads from many of us who love our M8 cvo's and have put thousands of trouble free miles on them. Just saying!
Well said! Wecome Back to the fold Dawg!!
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Thanks y'all. I believe the going conclusion is a '19 CVO (hopefully some version of orange, or at least a bright color) and leave it completely stock.
More to come...
HD
Good plan! Welcome back.
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Be very blunt with your dealer when you buy about mods.....you will have no warranty issues . If he says anything about voided warranty .....walk out the door . Like was said lots of use out her that have had 0 problems that your not going to hear about .....mostly because we don't sit in front of a puter 24/7 We actually ride these things 10s of thousands of miles 😂 There are 10-20 of anything out there that screw up. I have seen 3 Silverado pickup in the last few weeks get new motors. Brand new Mercedes C class that motor has to come almost out to fix a oil vent problem( lots of them mine one of them). Mini Cooper 17s 2 bad motors in my area. Indians with 2 locked up transmission. It's happens in everything..... 1 year old petebilt going back this morning for a new frame rail.....it cost a bit more than 43k bike. Go enjoy a new one Best bet? Go talk to guys that actually own and ride them face to face.....your only gonna get the ugly here. Sorry I don't use spell check...... Can't read it. Skip over.🍻
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My local dealer was more than willing to sell/install a catless header and claimed it would not void the warranty. Super Tune, changing ECM map, on the other hand, is strictly verboten. That same goes for non-HD parts in the motor, a strict no-no.
Almost all dealers will work with you .....it's the unknowing or internet loud mouths they will not work with. Lets face it removing cats is a no no in every state on a motor vehicle with a lic plate. If it's plated you as a dealer by law are not supposed to touch it if you know.😂🙈. No different than all us repair shops.
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Don't forget to checkout the threads from many of us who love our M8 cvo's and have put thousands of trouble free miles on them. Just saying!
yes people roll the dice see how that works. that makes a lot of sense when you toss 40 grand at a bike, then add some other goodies to it. just a figure of 10 grand and you have a huge pile of change in a bike that may not be the one you can tell everyone how great it is . you drew the short straw. not be maok you but only a reality check .
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The first thing you need to do Dawg is ignore all the people, dealership or here, who tell you don't worry about having the warranty voided for modifications. Things have changed since 2016, and Harley signed a consent decree with the EPA that specifically requires them to void the warranty on any bike with illegal modifications. It's not the wink and nod system of the old days, and it has nothing to do with your favorite dealer "working with you". That dealer can easily find himself answering not only to H-D but the EPA itself, and the fines start at around $10k per violation per day. In other words, only truly ignorant dealership folks still sell illegal mods for 2017 and later bikes or claim those mods won't affect your warranty.
As for the severe engine issues on the M8's, read some of the threads around here on sumping. Heatwave and SDCVO have threads detailing their multiple failures with new replacement engines. Other forums have large numbers of reported failures as well, on base model 107's as well as 114 and 117 versions. Is it a 100% certain to fail issue? Not so far, but if you ride aggressively the odds of failures go way up. I seem to remember you weren't exactly a putt down the road at 2500 rpm kind of guy.
Welcome back. I'd recommend what some others have already told you, wait for the 2019 models. There are indications that Harley made some changes to the cases that may have finally fixed the root cause of the problem (see Heatwave's latest posts). It's highly unlikely Harley will go back and fix all the 2017 and 2018 bikes if it takes new cases or case modifications to really fix them.
JMHO - Jerry
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yes people roll the dice see how that works. that makes a lot of sense when you toss 40 grand at a bike, then add some other goodies to it. just a figure of 10 grand and you have a huge pile of change in a bike that may not be the one you can tell everyone how great it is . you drew the short straw. not be maok you but only a reality check .
Do you own a M8 cvo?
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Do you own a M8 cvo, Jerry? My point is I do and I'm happy with it after 1 year and almost 10k miles. A lot of us repeat other peoples experiences based on one persons point of view and give opinions without any personal experience. I do agree that hopping up a M8 is not a good idea. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwaukee-eight-m8/1238654-does-anyone-like-their-m8-11.html
The first thing you need to do Dawg is ignore all the people, dealership or here, who tell you don't worry about having the warranty voided for modifications. Things have changed since 2016, and Harley signed a consent decree with the EPA that specifically requires them to void the warranty on any bike with illegal modifications. It's not the wink and nod system of the old days, and it has nothing to do with your favorite dealer "working with you". That dealer can easily find himself answering not only to H-D but the EPA itself, and the fines start at around $10k per violation per day. In other words, only truly ignorant dealership folks still sell illegal mods for 2017 and later bikes or claim those mods won't affect your warranty.
As for the severe engine issues on the M8's, read some of the threads around here on sumping. Heatwave and SDCVO have threads detailing their multiple failures with new replacement engines. Other forums have large numbers of reported failures as well, on base model 107's as well as 114 and 117 versions. Is it a 100% certain to fail issue? Not so far, but if you ride aggressively the odds of failures go way up. I seem to remember you weren't exactly a putt down the road at 2500 rpm kind of guy.
Welcome back. I'd recommend what some others have already told you, wait for the 2019 models. There are indications that Harley made some changes to the cases that may have finally fixed the root cause of the problem (see Heatwave's latest posts). It's highly unlikely Harley will go back and fix all the 2017 and 2018 bikes if it takes new cases or case modifications to really fix them.
JMHO - Jerry
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Do you own a M8 cvo, Jerry? My point is I do and I'm happy with it after 1 year and almost 10k miles. A lot of us repeat other peoples experiences based on one persons point of view and give opinions without any personal experience. I do agree that hopping up a M8 is not a good idea.
I definitely would agree that no one should make any decisions about M8 bikes based on just my personal experience with sumping (4 engines). But its is definitely worth noting that on HDForums there are 2-4 NEW sumping experiences being posted every WEEK. 2 new ones were just reported today., a 2018 stock trike 107 and a 2017 stage IV 114. I think it would be reasonable for anyone looking at 2017 or 2018 M8 bikes to do their research and decide for themselves based on the available information with dealers and on information available on the various forums.
With respect to voiding warranties, you should also do your homework. Drivetrain warranties are being voided for things that would have been considered innocuous in the past. Don't let others convince you that you can get away with Non-HD or Non-EPA approved changes to the engine/exhaust and that you won't put your warranty at risk. Minor infractions have and will continue to result in massive bills to repair your bike during the 2 yr factory warranty period should it be voided for non-compliance to the warranty terms.
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I definitely would agree that no one should make any decisions about M8 bikes based on just my personal experience with sumping (4 engines). But its is definitely worth noting that on HDForums there are 2-4 NEW sumping experiences being posted every WEEK. 2 new ones were just reported today., a 2018 stock trike 107 and a 2017 stage IV 114. I think it would be reasonable for anyone looking at 2017 or 2018 M8 bikes to do their research and decide for themselves based on the available information with dealers and on information available on the various forums.
With respect to voiding warranties, you should also do your homework. Drivetrain warranties are being voided for things that would have been considered innocuous in the past. Don't let others convince you that you can get away with Non-HD or Non-EPA approved changes to the engine/exhaust and that you won't put your warranty at risk. Minor infractions have and will continue to result in massive bills to repair your bike during the 2 yr factory warranty period should it be voided for non-compliance to the warranty terms.
that goes for all of us. people are not lying about what is happening to be sure. people who use the forum for passing info, and to help people make a decision or just for info are not big mouthed internet jerks as has been stated.f seems some do not want people in the know the fact of the matter.
Heatwave got it right and everyone should appreciate his detailed info he put out. seems straight up to me, been down the road he has been on and quite possibly more so .. hoping HD gets a real fix, and lets it be know because their business just may depend on it, under todays circumstances. and uncertainty .the ball is in their corner so we shall see.
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Do you own a M8 cvo?
yip certainly do.
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World has changed. Make any of those aftermarket changes to the engine or exhaust from the past and you’ll void your factory warranty. Which you may very well need if you buy a 2018. Read up on “sumping” and SB1450. It applies to ALL 2017 and 2018 bikes with the Milwaukee 8 engine.
My recommendation: Wait for the 2019s. If you buy the 2019 install ONLY HD components on the engine, exhaust and drivetrain for the first 2 yrs (factory warranty).
You have alot of catching up to do.
Great advice!