www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: 2soaper on November 15, 2018, 12:53:27 PM
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Have a buddy that purchased the a new bike not long ago and he was told at the time that if he made any changes to the motor that were not Harley parts the warranty was null and void. He was looking at replacing the stock exhaust and going to V&H tuner. Is this true?
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...And you can't do any work yourself. Must be taken to a certified repair facility for all work and maintenance. If the shop is not a Harley Dealer they have to call in prior to doing the work. At least that is how it was explained to me.
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Doesn't seem enforceable to me or at least its another reason to perhaps look for perhaps an Indian. Maybe they're doing the same thing now I haven't checked.
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...And you can't do any work yourself. Must be taken to a certified repair facility for all work and maintenance. If the shop is not a Harley Dealer they have to call in prior to doing the work. At least that is how it was explained to me.
For warranty work yes but for maintenance if they require it be done at the dealership or their fluids must be used they have to supply them free. As long as you keep records and use fluids that meet their specs they will loose every time in court.
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Doesn't seem enforceable to me or at least its another reason to perhaps look for perhaps an Indian. Maybe they're doing the same thing now I haven't checked.
It's absolutely enforceable, because it isn't a manufacturer's warranty. It's a product not unlike the various ESP products you may be familiar with, and they can put any kind of restrictions in their contracts they want, just like the ESP does. I'm going to guess there are many more gotcha's in the full contract, including any fine print. Make sure if you decide you want to try it to get a copy of the full and complete agreement, and read it carefully.
The manufactuer's warranty you get from H-D is regulated by federal law and you do have certain rights. All the other stuff offered by dealers is similar to an insurance policy, and like insurance policies they only have to cover what they specifically state they will cover, and they can refuse to pay if you violate any of the terms of the contract.
Jerry
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Here's a link to a article and conversation (PODCAST) regarding this whole topic and few others. Starts the conversation around the 25min mark if you care to skip....
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Here's a link to a article and conversation (PODCAST) regarding this whole topic and few others. Starts the conversation around the 25min mark if you care to skip....
Link :nixweiss:
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For warranty work yes but for maintenance if they require it be done at the dealership or their fluids must be used they have to supply them free. As long as you keep records and use fluids that meet their specs they will loose every time in court.
Going to court might be feasible if you can take it to Small Claims court. However the dollar limit for small claims in some states in pretty low:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html
If you have to go full blown lawsuit with an attorney well you'll be fronting the cost of that and even if you win there is no guarantee that you'll be awarded costs for your legal expenses. For the little guy this does not make much sense imo . . . and the moco knows that and counts on it.
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Sorry forgot the link: https://www.lawabidingbiker.com/125/
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the 2 year new vehicle warranty is in effect and is covered by the magnusson moss act. insofar as you can do your own maintenance, you can use whatever fluids you choose (as long as they meet required specs), etc.
but the warranty for life programs are very different. because they are not true 'warranties' but as jerry said, insurance programs, they are not covered by the mm act. they can put just about any kind of restriction in there that they want and still be legal. usually the big 'gotchas' with these programs are that you must have all your work done at the dealer, and, in a lot of cases, the specific dealer that you bought the bike from.
skip a service, have it done elsewhere, do it yourself, etc. and you've just lost your 'for life'....
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I was offered this for free when i purchased my current bike from the dealer. When I asked my salesman (who I've known for decades) about it he just looked at me and smiled and said "you still do your own maintenance right? And maybe plan for some upgrades later?" I replied yes and he winked and said "it's not for you."
With that said, I still read up on it because it IS a real offer but it just isn't for me.....
If you can live by the letter of the contract it could be a good deal for you. If you are not that person that has EVERY required maintenance item done when it's required (which is more than the factory even recommends) by a pre authorized dealer with authorized parts and materials ONLY, then good on ya. Otherwise if that offer of a free lifetime warranty got you in the door to consider spending some of your hard earned cash there as opposed to with the competition, well there advertising did it's job.
Good luck
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For warranty work yes but for maintenance if they require it be done at the dealership or their fluids must be used they have to supply them free. As long as you keep records and use fluids that meet their specs they will loose every time in court.
The good news is that I did request a full copy of the warranty so I am able to share! This also applies to Indians.
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And next - The good stuff is highlighted...
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To me, it's worthless. My bike is like my wife - Only I touch it!
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Ask yourself this question:
If they don't charge me for the coverage and I don't pay a deductible, how do they make enough money to stay in business?
If the dealership is paying them to participate in this program, what is their incentive to do so? Do they jack up the maintenance prices enough to cover their costs, or jack up the price of the vehicle?
There is no such thing as a free lunch folks. You are either paying for this through high maintenance charges, or in the purchase price of the bike. And considering all the high cost engine failures Harley has been having for many years now, this company has to be making some serious profits in order to be able to pay for those repairs. There is much more that needs to be known about how this thing actually works.
Jerry
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Ask yourself this question:
If they don't charge me for the coverage and I don't pay a deductible, how do they make enough money to stay in business?
If the dealership is paying them to participate in this program, what is their incentive to do so? Do they jack up the maintenance prices enough to cover their costs, or jack up the price of the vehicle?
There is no such thing as a free lunch folks. You are either paying for this through high maintenance charges, or in the purchase price of the bike. And considering all the high cost engine failures Harley has been having for many years now, this company has to be making some serious profits in order to be able to pay for those repairs. There is much more that needs to be known about how this thing actually works.
Jerry
Spot On!
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So why all the shade thrown at dealership service? I get it... its cheaper to do it yourself but is it really THAT much cheaper in the long run? Of course this depends on trusting the techs that work on your bike. But I have no problem with a reputable dealership service tech working on my bike.
I just had all the fluids (oil, primary, transmission) changed on my bike. New oil filter. Clutch cleaned. The brake fluid was flushed and changed under HD's brake recall (no charge). The tech noticed several screws had fallen out of one of the saddlebag hinges and replaced/tightened them with loctite. Cleaned my K&N air filter with detergent and reoiled it.
Oils were all replaced with Syn3. New gaskets where needed. Bike was inspected to check for leaking shocks, worn brake pads/rotors or any other failures/leaks.
It took 3 hrs while I relaxed with a cup of coffee, looked at new bikes etc.
Could I have done it myself... of course.
The cost for the service (winter rates) was $220. Seems pretty fair from my perspective and the bike is ready for the 2019 riding season. The dealerships get alot of crap but when you have a good one, its worth supporting them. Someday you might REALLY need them and you'll be glad you have a good working relationship.
So if the worst about the warranty-for-life is having to use your dealership for service, it doesn't seem like that terrible of a deal if you have a good working relationship with your dealer.
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well, situations vary greatly. in my case, my 'local' dealer (60 miles one way) charges $400 for a service. no winter rate here in la. the amount of miles I ride, that's 2 services per year for $800. I do my own services, and with my choice of oils I can do both services for less than $100.
so I've had my bike for 6 years, that's $4800 in services vs $600. to answer your question, yes, it is THAT much cheaper in the long run.
no disrespect intended to those who choose to let the dealers perform the service. I just can't afford it.
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I do pre paid maintenance with my dealer. Saves me a lot going that route, and I do not have to do my own. Service charges vary depending on which service it is, but average 400 dollars each.
So pre paid at 1100 for 3 years is a good deal for me. This year I will have the 500, 5000, 10,000 and 15,000 at least maybe the 20,000 also.
Then the second year 25,000, 30,000, 35,000 and 40,000.
So at the two year mark its brought my cost down to under 125 a service. At 3 years I am well under 100 a service.
They do the work, and wash my bike. I have a couple beers at the dealership restaurant and a cigar.
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Here’s what seems to be coming on the sale/trade side.
Recently, I purposely took a late model touring bike to the dealer to either sell or consign.
We haggled a little butcI had done my homework so we quickly settled on a cash purchase price.
BUT before they would complete the deal, they took the bike into the service shop and hooked up the digital tech. The mechanic said they were validating that the ECU hadn’t been changed by any non Harley products.
They opened both front and rear brake resevoirs looking for old DOT4 fluid and checked for the proper operation of the ABS System, miked the pads and rotors and checked the tread wear indicators and pressure on the tires and checked the oil, tranny and clutch fluids.
Then after a acceptable test ride they closed the deal.