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Author Topic: valve springs  (Read 12380 times)

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grc

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2007, 06:33:03 PM »

------------------------------------------------
Just because it is not in the book does not mean it is not a screaming eagle part or that it is dealer only kit, as it is orderable.   If it were dealer only item "you" could not order it period.   The key here is that it is already pending obsolete and for reasons of REFERENCE I posted it for validation as a Harley Part number and kit, and so that people wishing to validate the information I had already stated could do so. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Verified on Zanotti's look-up web page, as shown below.  Real H-D number, not a dealer kit.

Jerry
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 06:57:43 PM by grc »
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djkak

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 07:14:52 PM »

Some of the buzz that I hear around the water cooler:

The new OEM servo driven throttle body is 50mm.
SE Servo throttle body is 58mm.
SE 110+ heads and pistons / redesigned combustion chamber.

The ECM controlled throttle body will most likely will make cruise control an option on a broader range of models in the future.

The servo driven throttle body opens the door for other automated throttle management possibilities.

djkak
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evilroadking

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 07:59:54 PM »

Just checked with my dealer on that part number. They said, yea it comes up as legit part but they cant order as it is a non orderable item, whatever that means. I belive these rumors about the changes on the 110's and I also believe the factory doesint want us to knwo a few things about the 07 110's. Will be interesting to see what version i get with motor replacment along with anyone else getting motor replacements.

It surely does appear harley started a performance line for the 110's why are they backing out?????? Motor Issues???? Fixes they dont want to talk about yet???? emmmmmm Sure got my blood boiling!!!!!
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Hoist!

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 09:55:10 PM »

Some of the buzz that I hear around the water cooler:

The new OEM servo driven throttle body is 50mm.
SE Servo throttle body is 58mm.
SE 110+ heads and pistons / redesigned combustion chamber.

The ECM controlled throttle body will most likely will make cruise control an option on a broader range of models in the future.

The servo driven throttle body opens the door for other automated throttle management possibilities.

djkak

Nice to hear from you dj! ;) I was wondering when you were gonna chime in on this '08 banter. Thanks for the update. I like the second one. Someone must have some insight on these 110's! ::) Keep us up to speed so we hear it here first! :2vrolijk_21: This is for old time sakes! :smilie_staub:

Hoist! 8)
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redtwin

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2007, 04:24:49 PM »

Ordered se 10.5 comp pistons today for my 110 from my dealer,the pistons are available separate from stage 2 kit,they are next page over from
stage 2 kit,the diffrence in heads from stage 2 and stock are valve springs
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Hoist!

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    • CVO2: '99 FXR3 BRIGHT & DARK CANDY BLUE W/FLAMES, STAGE II 80" EVO 5-SPEED +++, "JOY"!!!
    • CVO3: 4: & 5: '85 FXWG BLACK w/CUSTOM FLAMES, 110" EVO 6-SPEED +++ CVO style!!!; '08 NSMC PROSG CUSTOM FXR BASED PRO STREET BLACK, 89" EVO 5-SPEED, VERY FAST!!!; '09 NSMC HSTBBR CUSTOM RIGID HOISTBOBBER, SILVER METALFLAKE BATES SOLO SEAT & TIN w/BLACK WISHBONE FRAME, 80" EVO (w/Shovelhead bottom end) 4-SPEED! VERY COOL!!!
Re: valve springs
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2007, 04:28:12 PM »

Ordered se 10.5 comp pistons today for my 110 from my dealer,the pistons are available separate from stage 2 kit,they are next page over from
stage 2 kit,the diffrence in heads from stage 2 and stock are valve springs

What catalog are you getting this from redtwin? Is it in the '08 regular parts catalog? Can you supply the piston kit P/N? Thanks man. Hoist! 8)
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redtwin

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 05:25:10 PM »

i will get part number tommorrow sorry for got to right it down,it was out of a new catalog he had
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redtwin

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2007, 05:33:35 PM »

Everything i ordered was availible and i paid extra to get next day shipping,I will post when I see parts in the store
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djkak

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2007, 08:33:04 PM »

Nice to hear from you dj! ;) I was wondering when you were gonna chime in on this '08 banter. Thanks for the update. I like the second one. Someone must have some insight on these 110's! ::) Keep us up to speed so we hear it here first! :2vrolijk_21: This is for old time sakes! :smilie_staub:

Hoist! 8)

The other day I was riding downtown and caught my reflection in a storefront window. At first glance my reflection looked just like this little jumping dude :smilie_staub: until I had time to focus; pretty much sums up my perspective on the subject of motorcycling.

As long as you are asking, I do have a few speculative thoughts about the late model Twin Cam’s.

Regarding flywheel shift, one thought that I hear kicked around is that this engine’s ability to accelerate in high gear at engine speeds near 1,500 rpm will cause the flywheels to shift. The claim is that torque spikes of 1,300 to 1,500 foot pounds can be measured at the crankpin in 6th gear under low rpm, wide open throttle conditions. I have heard that the torque smoothing recalibration is designed specifically to address this.

The new 6 speed’s primary and overall gearing place a much greater load on the engine’s compensating sprocket which results in the rapid loading and unloading of the assembly at extremely low engine rpm’s; I’ll bet the mechanical stops of this sprocket take quite a pounding under these conditions. ECM recalibration along with the rubber isolated rear wheel sprocket will allow the rider to lug the engine down well below reasonable minimums without breaking engine parts. I never add significant power while in the higher gears below 2,500 rpm; it just doesn’t feel right. 

Regarding the Timkin left main bearing; I haven’t seen one of the late model roller bearings fail yet, so this is pure speculation. I’ll bet a can of Diet Coke that failure mode of the big roller bearing is linked directly to flywheel shift. It is my strong sense that the off-axis rotation (wobble) of the sprocket shaft overloads the roller bearing by concentrating the load on the outboard edges of the rollers and races. The Timken bearing by design is better equipped to handle this kind of load. It is my sense that a set of shifted flywheels would eventually loosen the Timken races in the crankcase given enough time. I would be surprised to learn that a straight set of press together flywheels would flex enough to overload the late style left main roller bearing.

As always, these tidbits along with $4.00 will get you a piping hot cup of genuine Starbucks coffee.

djkak
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Unbalanced

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2007, 10:28:38 PM »

Redtwin the pistons have been available for about 4 months separately.   part number 22502-07

https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php

I would go back and reconfirm on the kits available that the springs are in fact different, because the part numbers for complete heads are the same in the stage2 kit and on our bikes unless Harley just changed them for the 08 catalog.  I would be surprised to see the Stage2 kit listed in a catalog.   Please let me know where you saw the stage2 kit listed.

If you can please post the part numbers for the complete heads for the CVO's and the Stage2 Heads.   I will try and dig up the sku's I had on them when I checked into it if I can find them.

Here ya go I found the post.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14057.msg225802#msg225802

The following information is per Harley Spock and Tech, but should not replace due care by claying the motor and checking all clearances when making modifications.

Here are the part numbers for the heads with valves/springs in them and just castings.
17251-07 front
17252 -07 rear

These are on national back order or were the day I checked them.
17253-07 front
17257-07 rear     fixed misprint originally said 12257-07
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:45:53 PM by Unbalanced »
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Hoist!

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    • CVO1: '07C FLHRSE3, BLACK ICE OF COURSE, CUSTOM 110" TC 6-SPEED +++, "CYBIL"!!!
    • CVO2: '99 FXR3 BRIGHT & DARK CANDY BLUE W/FLAMES, STAGE II 80" EVO 5-SPEED +++, "JOY"!!!
    • CVO3: 4: & 5: '85 FXWG BLACK w/CUSTOM FLAMES, 110" EVO 6-SPEED +++ CVO style!!!; '08 NSMC PROSG CUSTOM FXR BASED PRO STREET BLACK, 89" EVO 5-SPEED, VERY FAST!!!; '09 NSMC HSTBBR CUSTOM RIGID HOISTBOBBER, SILVER METALFLAKE BATES SOLO SEAT & TIN w/BLACK WISHBONE FRAME, 80" EVO (w/Shovelhead bottom end) 4-SPEED! VERY COOL!!!
Re: valve springs
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2007, 04:36:57 PM »

While my heads were off, I asked the Tech to check for the max cam lift that can be used with the stock 110 head valve springs. Interesting results. The stock setup can not handle anything over .600 lift cams. That means you'd need to change to heavier springs if you want to use the SE 260 cams. Interesting because these are the cams and heads that come with the 110" Stage II kit. If they're using the same heads as our CVO's, then the springs HD themselves are not adequate for that build. They must be using a different head setup for Stage II. He said he wouldn't use anything larger than a .595 lift. I've already replaced my springs, so I'm not worried. But you can use a SE 251 without changing springs! ;) Hoist! 8)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 06:17:56 PM by Hoist »
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SOKOOLJ

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2007, 04:47:04 PM »

While my heads were off, I asked the Tech to check for the max cam lift that can be used with the stock 110 head valve springs. Interesting results. The stock setup can not handle anything over .600 lift. That means you'd need to change to heavier springs if you want to use the SE 260 cams. Interesting because these are the cams that come with the 110" Stage II kit. If they're using the same heads as our CVO's, then the springs HD themselves are not adequate for that build. They must be using a different head setup for Stage II. He said he wouldn't use anything larger than a .595 lift. I've already replaced my springs, so I'm not worried. But you can use a SE 251 without changing springs! ;) Hoist! 8)

You are all over it today. BTW, I did notice the new avatar. I think a tiger would be more fitting.
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Unbalanced

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2007, 05:18:51 PM »

Howie,

What is weird is that Harley shows the head assembly's as the same part number when you break them down per the stage2 kit and or you order them. 

Thanks for getting the information.   I wonder what people who have already had the 260's installed are going to do, because there is definately the chance of issues if you wind it up.

/shrug may have to wait and have another set of springs tested to have a comparison.   The good news is that .550 is definitely not the spec and those that did bolt ins / 251 are safe.

Thanks,

-harry 
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Unbalanced

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2007, 09:08:38 PM »

Howie,

I called Wes Brown at Cycle Rama this evening to check on the stock heads and spring tolerances.   He also echo'd nothing larger than 600 lift would be his recommendation.
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evilroadking

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Re: valve springs
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2007, 12:00:27 AM »

Unbalanced,

Can you get part numbers from the 08 110 inch race kit for springs and intake/exhaust valves? The 07 part numbers are 18272-00 for inner and outter springs.  valves, the 07 part numbers are 18183-03 exhaust, 18187-07 intake. It would be interesting to compare against the 08 race kit numbers if you can get them..

good luck
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