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[alejandro]

DID ALL OF YOU GET THIS YESTERDAY? (9/17/08)

i got my free book in the mail with a letter of apology from the moco...nice gesture...i just wish my bike wasn't in the shop so much...i'd trade that book for that!

 

[FLHRSE3]

Got it, would have rather been reimbursed for my time and trouble of getting their poorly engineered engine fixed.

Gregg

[Hugh Janis]

To keep it in perspective......

I spoke with my 48 year old neighbor Tuesday who had a hip replacement in Jan 08.  He received a letter from the manufacturer of the hip that it's being recalled.  He has to have the hip surgically removed and replaced.  It takes several months to recover from something like this let alone the pain and suffering besides.  What we are going through with the bikes is inconvenient at most.

[FNGw/08SERK]

To keep it in perspective......

I spoke with my 48 year old neighbor Tuesday who had a hip replacement in Jan 08.  He received a letter from the manufacturer of the hip that it's being recalled.  He has to have the hip surgically removed and replaced.  It takes several months to recover from something like this let alone the pain and suffering besides.  What we are going through with the bikes is inconvenient at most.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

To keep it in perspective......

I spoke with my 48 year old neighbor Tuesday who had a hip replacement in Jan 08.  He received a letter from the manufacturer of the hip that it's being recalled.  He has to have the hip surgically removed and replaced.  It takes several months to recover from something like this let alone the pain and suffering besides.  What we are going through with the bikes is inconvenient at most.

Good lord I HOPE to God thats a joke.... NO ONE should have to go through that!

[alejandro]

i wouldn't wish either thing on my worst enemy.

BOTH ARE PAINFUL!

[grecko]

I got the book and the letter too.  But...  mine was built in June of 08 according to the sticker on the frame neck.  I'm not sure what's going on.  A misfire of the mailing?  I didn't think this affected bikes built after May.  Mine does sound like it has nails in the cylinder but runs good - and cooler after a sert application.  Before that it actually melted some hot toppers on the cylinder base bolts.

[grecko]

Here's a copy of the letter for those who did not receive it.

[Hoist!]

NO!!!


FTF!!!

Hoist!

[Gone Fishin']

NO!!!


FTF!!!

Hoist!

They must have pushed you into the European no letter at all group. Ha ha ha ...   

Ride safely,
Louis

[ox666]

Louis,

I know you guys didn't get a "product enhancement" letter, but did you get the book over there?

[bilbo]

Hi All,

New here, but not new to forums (I actually run my own set of Consumer advocacy forums).

I'm not a motorcycle kind of guy, but my best friend is.
He owns a 2008 Screaming Eagle Road King.

He is internet/computer challenged and since he knows I run some forums and know how to do a search, he has asked me to try and investigate some things for him.

He too has just received his second letter, with the book.

I have informed him that the companies database will continue to automatically send letters until the recall field is cleared in their database.

He is concerned about whether or not, or when to have the repairs ("upgrade") to the engine performed.
He also is getting seemingly conflicting signals in that the letters are urging him to get it done, but when he goes to his dealer to inquire, they seem to put the fear of god in him and strongly suggest he wait since he has 2 years to get it done and they have to order a gasket kit for it.

I also happen to be very mechanically inclined and fully understand the requirements of replacing a head gasket in an engine and everything else that also has to be done in the process.

My initial inclination is to advise "If it ain't broke, don't fix it until you absolutely have to".  Besides, if they really did send the book as a freebie for not having yet performed the "upgrade", maybe they'll keep sending more freebies until the "upgrade" is finally performed.

I noticed in the actual letter (thanks for posting it), they say it is not a safety issue.

So, if you don't mind, I'd like to get all of your thoughts on these questions:
1. What is the method of failure, what actually happens (e.g. will it blow hot oil on his leg(s), will it damage other parts, etc)?

2. Is it better to replace the gasket (and all the other gaskets required), now, while the engine is young, or later so as to get the most mileage out of the existing gaskets before replacement?

3. Any thoughts on why he is getting conflicting signals from his dealer (he lives in Waco, so should he bring it to a Dallas Dealer)?

4. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[Gone Fishin']

Louis,

I know you guys didn't get a "product enhancement" letter, but did you get the book over there?

So far no book. We stand unified in solidarity to Hoist!

[Gone Fishin']

Hi All,

New here, but not new to forums (I actually run my own set of Consumer advocacy forums).

I'm not a motorcycle kind of guy, but my best friend is.
He owns a 2008 Screaming Eagle Road King.

He is internet/computer challenged and since he knows I run some forums and know how to do a search, he has asked me to try and investigate some things for him.

He too has just received his second letter, with the book.

I have informed him that the companies database will continue to automatically send letters until the recall field is cleared in their database.

He is concerned about whether or not, or when to have the repairs ("upgrade") to the engine performed.
He also is getting seemingly conflicting signals in that the letters are urging him to get it done, but when he goes to his dealer to inquire, they seem to put the fear of god in him and strongly suggest he wait since he has 2 years to get it done and they have to order a gasket kit for it.

I also happen to be very mechanically inclined and fully understand the requirements of replacing a head gasket in an engine and everything else that also has to be done in the process.

My initial inclination is to advise "If it ain't broke, don't fix it until you absolutely have to".  Besides, if they really did send the book as a freebie for not having yet performed the "upgrade", maybe they'll keep sending more freebies until the "upgrade" is finally performed.

I noticed in the actual letter (thanks for posting it), they say it is not a safety issue.

So, if you don't mind, I'd like to get all of your thoughts on these questions:
1. What is the method of failure, what actually happens (e.g. will it blow hot oil on his leg(s), will it damage other parts, etc)?

2. Is it better to replace the gasket (and all the other gaskets required), now, while the engine is young, or later so as to get the most mileage out of the existing gaskets before replacement?

3. Any thoughts on why he is getting conflicting signals from his dealer (he lives in Waco, so should he bring it to a Dallas Dealer)?

4. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Did your friend experience any malfunction with his bike? That is the main question, isn't it? As you say rightfully, no need to fix it, if it is not broken. And H-D gives you two years time ... In any case, if there is no urgency I'd suggest to wait. A later upgrade may be even covering problems we don't know yet (ahem). As H-D says, it is "not a safety issue" and that seems to be true, when you read the posts in this great site. The dealer may (or may not) have his own agenda. You probably need to clarify this face to face with the service manager or a senior person. And you can always call H-D directly.

Hope this helps!

Louis

[hard10]

Hi All,

New here, but not new to forums (I actually run my own set of Consumer advocacy forums).

I'm not a motorcycle kind of guy, but my best friend is.
He owns a 2008 Screaming Eagle Road King.

...
Thanks in advance!

Most of us are getting ready to meet up at a "gathering" so the responses may be slow coing in on this subject. A lot of good info will be found in this link: http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25247.0
However, it sounds like your friend's dealer is blowing smoke to stall him. The reason may be that the dealer is too busy this time of the year or is hoping your friend will take it to another dealer (as you have already mentioned). Have him get down on his knees with a flash light and look at the gasket of the rear cylinder. Look right by the rear exhaust. If there is oil (it may be burnt oil at this point) he has a problem.

[TimBone]

Got the first letter, not the second or a book yet.
Maybe in a year or two a new engine might show up on the doorstep...Hmmmm

[fxdsebeloved]

To keep it in perspective......

I spoke with my 48 year old neighbor Tuesday who had a hip replacement in Jan 08.  He received a letter from the manufacturer of the hip that it's being recalled.  He has to have the hip surgically removed and replaced.  It takes several months to recover from something like this let alone the pain and suffering besides.  What we are going through with the bikes is inconvenient at most.

The Company: Zimmer Holdings Inc.

Many different companies began to release different versions of replacement hip joints that are implanted into patients, and one of the true leaders within this product line was Zimmer Holdings. Zimmer formulated a surgically implanted hip replacement joint known as the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Durom Cup was originally released into the marketplace in Europe in 2003, and it began to sell well with patients there. Ultimately, the Durom Cup was approved for sale and distribution in the United States by the FDA in 2006. As was the case with its efforts in Europe, the product sold well, with an estimated 13,000 units sold in the United States within the first year. Unfortunately, it wasn’t long before problems began to surface in relation to the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Problems with the Hip Replacement:
In 2007, informal issues began to arise with the Durom Cup. They were ‘informal’ in nature because of the lack of a central database to track the issues that arise with this sort of product, but one of the most highly-respected and renowned doctors within this field ultimately decided that he needed to speak out in regards to this product, and this occurrence led to the ultimate result.

The doctor in question is Dr. Lawrence Dorr, and his surgical practice is located in Los Angeles. Dr. Dorr performed several hip replacement procedures using the Durom Cup, and for a brief time he thought that the results were satisfactory. However, it soon became apparent to Dr. Dorr that there was in fact a problem.

Several of Dr. Dorr’s patients continued to experience excruciating pain in the hip joint area, and this pain persisted well beyond the normal timeframe for such an issue. In addition to the pain, the patients also were not progressing physically in a manner that was consistent with other hip replacement products.

Finally, Dr. Dorr spoke out against the Durom Cup. Initially, Zimmer denied any problems, but in July of 2008, the company announced a recall of the product in the United States without giving a specific reason.


I'll take the leak anyday!!!!!!! 

[Hoist!]

NO, today either!!! FTF!!!

Hoist!

[Fired00d]

The Company: Zimmer Holdings Inc.

Many different companies began to release different versions of replacement hip joints that are implanted into patients, and one of the true leaders within this product line was Zimmer Holdings. Zimmer formulated a surgically implanted hip replacement joint known as the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Durom Cup was originally released into the marketplace in Europe in 2003, and it began to sell well with patients there. Ultimately, the Durom Cup was approved for sale and distribution in the United States by the FDA in 2006. As was the case with its efforts in Europe, the product sold well, with an estimated 13,000 units sold in the United States within the first year. Unfortunately, it wasn’t long before problems began to surface in relation to the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Problems with the Hip Replacement:
In 2007, informal issues began to arise with the Durom Cup. They were ‘informal’ in nature because of the lack of a central database to track the issues that arise with this sort of product, but one of the most highly-respected and renowned doctors within this field ultimately decided that he needed to speak out in regards to this product, and this occurrence led to the ultimate result.

The doctor in question is Dr. Lawrence Dorr, and his surgical practice is located in Los Angeles. Dr. Dorr performed several hip replacement procedures using the Durom Cup, and for a brief time he thought that the results were satisfactory. However, it soon became apparent to Dr. Dorr that there was in fact a problem.

Several of Dr. Dorr’s patients continued to experience excruciating pain in the hip joint area, and this pain persisted well beyond the normal timeframe for such an issue. In addition to the pain, the patients also were not progressing physically in a manner that was consistent with other hip replacement products.

Finally, Dr. Dorr spoke out against the Durom Cup. Initially, Zimmer denied any problems, but in July of 2008, the company announced a recall of the product in the United States without giving a specific reason.


I'll take the leak anyday!!!!!!! 

Very interesting. I guess since I haven't had or having any problems after 18 months after my hip replacement maybe (hopefully) I don't have that particular brand replacement.

* Fired00d is keeping his fingers crossed he doesn't.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[ox666]

So far no book. We stand unified in solidarity to Hoist!

Same down here.

[bribe36]

Thanks grecko for attaching the letter

[SERK3]

Received my 2nd letter and book sometime last week

[anglia48]

Got my book yesterday. Looked through it. I suppose it's the thought that counts? Not sure. Maybe they should have spent the money on getting the motors built right instead. 

[leoniru]

Arrived in today's mail. Have to admit I was only going to superficially glance at the archive, but ended up thumbing through and pretty much reading the whole thing. 

leoniru

[Puzzled]

So.... is the book any good?

[Hoist!]

Still No!!! And...



FTF!!!

Hoist!

[WFP]

came home to the letter and book...

[Hoist!]

HeHe!!! I actually just got a call back from the Mother Ship just now. He apologized to me for taking so long, but CS never heard about this til I called. He said they got a few calls after from others too. They're very aware of this great site, and the CVO guys there are on regularly. Of course they all know who I am. I told them not to take my criticism personally and to use it to improve things instead. I also told him that if I wasn't so passionate about HD or didn't care, I wouldn't even waste my time talking about these issues. He replied that they've got big shoulders there and do use this forum to trey to make improvements to their products. I take that with a grain of salt of course.

Then we discussed how I couldn't wait for competent dealer engine builders and 'The Fix" so I took care of it myself. He explained that unless a dealer has a Race program there's little chance that they have good engine builders there. Everything today is made to simply bolt onto the bike. But engine building is not a dealer forte anymore as a rule. It's consistent with what we've been seeing and it was refreshing to actually hear that from someone from the Mother Ship.

It was a fun and pleasant conversation. I told him to tell everyone not to take my FTF, FTD, and FTW personally, just my way of saying I'll deal with this myself and show my passion. He said they don't mind me spending my own money on it. Saves them the expense anyway!

He gave me a number to call in Milwaukee. It's 414-228-4387. Ask for Sherry. She will make sure by VIN, that everyone who's entitled to the book gets one.

So ya see, I'm not on their most 10 wanted list as Chip had eluded too. They've got big shoulders there and Lil Ole Hoist ain't much of a threat to them after all!

Hoist!

[Hugh Janis]

The Company: Zimmer Holdings Inc.

Many different companies began to release different versions of replacement hip joints that are implanted into patients, and one of the true leaders within this product line was Zimmer Holdings. Zimmer formulated a surgically implanted hip replacement joint known as the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Durom Cup was originally released into the marketplace in Europe in 2003, and it began to sell well with patients there. Ultimately, the Durom Cup was approved for sale and distribution in the United States by the FDA in 2006. As was the case with its efforts in Europe, the product sold well, with an estimated 13,000 units sold in the United States within the first year. Unfortunately, it wasn’t long before problems began to surface in relation to the Durom Cup hip replacement component.

The Problems with the Hip Replacement:
In 2007, informal issues began to arise with the Durom Cup. They were ‘informal’ in nature because of the lack of a central database to track the issues that arise with this sort of product, but one of the most highly-respected and renowned doctors within this field ultimately decided that he needed to speak out in regards to this product, and this occurrence led to the ultimate result.

The doctor in question is Dr. Lawrence Dorr, and his surgical practice is located in Los Angeles. Dr. Dorr performed several hip replacement procedures using the Durom Cup, and for a brief time he thought that the results were satisfactory. However, it soon became apparent to Dr. Dorr that there was in fact a problem.

Several of Dr. Dorr’s patients continued to experience excruciating pain in the hip joint area, and this pain persisted well beyond the normal timeframe for such an issue. In addition to the pain, the patients also were not progressing physically in a manner that was consistent with other hip replacement products.

Finally, Dr. Dorr spoke out against the Durom Cup. Initially, Zimmer denied any problems, but in July of 2008, the company announced a recall of the product in the United States without giving a specific reason.


I'll take the leak anyday!!!!!!! 

That's exactly what he is going through.  He's returned several times complaining about pain and lack of mobility.  The Dr. seemed to think he would make eventual progress.  The replacement is scheduled for mid Nov.  He's expecting some sort of settlement for pain and suffering and loss of productivity but I wouldn't want to go through something like this again.

[SBB]

So ya see, I'm not on their most 10 wanted list as Chip had eluded too. They've got big shoulders there and Lil Ole Hoist ain't much of a threat to them after all!

Hoist!

Hoisty

Don't be putting words (type) in my mouth when it's not correct.
Never said you were on any top ten list, that was you.
All I said was there is a lot of people in the business that knew of your bashing the dealers and the motor company and that your reputation as a basher had preceded you.
Glad you got a call, and to me that just shows that eventually they will do the right thing.
BTW, did you figure out the noise issue with Cybil?
She seemed to be running to good to have a serious issue!

[Hoist!]

Hoisty

Don't be putting words (type) in my mouth when it's not correct.
Never said you were on any top ten list, that was you.
All I said was there is a lot of people in the business that knew of your bashing the dealers and the motor company and that your reputation as a basher had preceded you.
Glad you got a call, and to me that just shows that eventually they will do the right thing.
BTW, did you figure out the noise issue with Cybil?
She seemed to be running to good to have a serious issue!

Just trying to keep it light and explain that one lil ole passionate basher doesn't get them all rattled like you tried to tell me. At least that's what the guy said to me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who I am. And they surely enjoy continuing to take my money if I choose to spend it with HD. And I still spend plenty. I've paid for the right to be critical. And if it improves anything at all as a result, it's the right thing to do!

The noise is getting a little worse now and think a lifter's going. Bringing it to Vern to troubleshoot and fix this week. Hope she doesn't need major surgery though is all!

Hoist!

[bilbo]

He explained that unless a dealer has a Race program there's little chance that they have good engine builders there.

So, is he saying that anybody who needs/wants to have this work performed, should find a dealer that has a racing program so as to be assured the engine builder is most competent?

If so, how does one go about finding a dealer with a racing program?

And will all dealers cover this repair, or does it have to be performed by the dealer that actually sold the bike?

Thanks

[SBB]

I've paid for the right to be critical. And if it improves anything at all as a result, it's the right thing to do!

The noise is getting a little worse now and think a lifter's going. Bringing it to Vern to troubleshoot and fix this week. Hope she doesn't need major surgery though is all!

Hoist!

 


Good luck on Cybil!

 

[Hoist!]

Good luck on Cybil!

 

Thank you!

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

I finally spoke to these bananas morons up there! You know why it's always FTF? Well these bozos looked up my VIN and said I'm not on the list! I asked what the production/delivery dates were to qualify. My delivery date was 1/07, right in the middle of those that qualify! But in their typical MoCo infinite wisdom, they said I wasn't on the list. I said I got a RECALL Product Imrovement Letter from them. They asked if I'd mind faxing it and I'll get the book!!! F them dumbasses!!! FTF!!! FTF!!! FTF!!!


BTW, FTF!!! FTD!!! and FTW!!! Oh yeah, FTB!!!

Hoist!

[MJZ]

I finally spoke to these bananas up there! You know why it's always FTF? Well these bozos looked up my VIN and said I'm not on the list! I asked what the production/delivery dates were to qualify. My delivery date was 1/07, right in the middle of those that qualify! But in their typical MoCo infinite wisdom, they said I wasn't on the list. I said I got a RECALL Product Imrovement Letter from them. They asked if I'd mind faxing it and I'll get the book!!! F them dumbasses!!! FTF!!! FTF!!! FTF!!!


BTW, FTF!!! FTD!!! and FTW!!! Oh yeah, FTB!!!

Hoist!

Hey, that's a complementary term!

[Hoist!]

Hey, that's a complementary term!

Sorry Mark, you're absolutely right! I've corrected that now!!!

Hoist!

[MJZ]

 

[Rooster]

Well I got my letter and my book. And I got my new head gasket leak too. Anyway after tear down some issues found with my modified heads. And they were full of oil. So four hours to clean up and reassemble which I will pay for. Pistons were carboned up pretty good but the cylinders were in good shape with no slipage. Seems head gasket leak was caused by head issues. Will know more details after the heads have been gone over. Hope some of the noises are gone after the fix, We will see. Oh yea moco authorized new rings so no fight bout that.

[hard10]

Well I got my letter and my book. And I got my new head gasket leak too. Anyway after tear down some issues found with my modified heads. And they were full of oil. So four hours to clean up and reassemble which I will pay for. Pistons were carboned up pretty good but the cylinders were in good shape with no slipage. Seems head gasket leak was caused by head issues. Will know more details after the heads have been gone over. Hope some of the noises are gone after the fix, We will see. Oh yea moco authorized new rings so no fight bout that.

Sorry to hear about the problems.
No book here either though. I've been patiently waiting (using the word patiently is an oxymoron with anything I say).