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[sadunbar]

By the way I personally witnessed 10HP plus improvements with Dynojet wide band on bikes that had perfect TTS tune ups. Wide band is the best power investment you can make in my opinion and I'm sure any one running wide band will agree. 

  Extraordinary ...  but out of curiosity ... how was it determined the TTS tune up was perfect?   

Sometimes, when one tries too hard...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

[HOGMIKE]

Fuel Moto Spends much of their time on the Dyno. Some days 10 or 12 hours. Every combination of their power package is tuned on each model until it is perfected. His stock "96" motors are pulling 94hp and his stock "103's are 100hp[/b]. His personal Road Kings stock "96" blower motor is pullin 142hp with 10 psi. He will get into the 160,s by spring with 14 psi. I can personally say Jamie Long enjoys what he is doing and has a first rate business with class A parts! Here is the chart to My brothers Stock 103 Limited with the Fuel Moto power package.     http://fuelmotousa.com/home.htm   

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly....but......my stock 103 ran 67HP, and Jamie's stock 103 with dyno tune runs 100HP??
I think I'm missing something there.....can you elaborate on what constitutes his "stock 103"??
Sounds like a great increase in power with a dyno tune!

 

[SteveFLHTK]

Sounds like puffery.

[SBB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A shill is person who is paid to help another person or organization to sell goods or services. The shill pretends to have no association with the seller/group and gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic customer. The person or group that hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members (who are unaware of the set-up) to purchase said goods or services. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term plant is also used. The term is also used to describe a person who is paid to help a political party or other advocacy organization to gain adherents; as with the situation of selling goods or services, the shill gives the impression of being unrelated to the group in question, and gives the impression that he or she finds merit in the ideological claims of the political party.

Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions[1] because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions. However, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz", the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.

"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity. The origin of the term shill is uncertain; it may be an abbreviation of the Yiddish shillaber. The word originally denoted a carnival worker who pretended to be a member of the audience in an attempt to elicit interest in an attraction. Some sources trace the usage only back to 1914

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O chit, I better stop talking about how good that Honda Glare stuff is I got from Tommy my buddy in Ga.
Next thing you know I'll be on Honda USA's payroll.
And we all will riding around in one Accord!

                                 

SBB

[sadunbar]

O chit, I better stop talking about how good that Honda Glare stuff is I got from Tommy my buddy in Ga.
Next thing you know I'll be on Honda USA's payroll.
And we all will riding around in one Accord!

                                 

SBB

So if you are a member of... http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/liars-anonymous ... like Tommy suggested ... does this mean you are on Honda USA's payroll or you aren't on Honda USA's payroll?  I'm still confused.... 

[04se103]

 

[Diamondback]

 

I have basically the same package from Fule Moto on my 09 and have over 10,000 great miles from below freezing to 110 in one day and from 9,000 feet to sea level with absolutley no issues with how the bike ran.  Consistantly get 38 to 39 mpg.

Great power and excellent driveability. 

Jamie is great ot work with.

Would do it again.

 

[SBB]

I Live near Fuel Moto. I am not a "shill" as you suggest SS-BS. This site is an open forum to Pass info that may help your fellow riders. I stop by frequently to witness CVO and other interesting Harley Davidson bikes do their thing on the dyno. I have known Jamie for years and know of no other Dyno tuner that comes close. DYNO SHEETS DONT LIE!, Compare products. I recomend FUEL MOTO to any one that want's great service and parts with a smile and guarentee. I have Steve Fullsac's core's, Windvest Wind screen, Xenon lamps and many other products that have come to light on this site. Thank you every one for thousands of threads on testing and word of mouth impressions that were allowed to be on this site with out critisism.   Thanks SSB for your comment.

I have known Jamie for years and know of no other Dyno tuner that comes close.

Call it however you please, your guy may be good but yours is a very limited and sheltered world if you think no other dyno tuner comes close.
As I said in my original post, if your guy was better than everyone one else then many shops would have to close down.
The best I can tell, that hasn't happened!

Thanks SBB for your comment.

No problem, I'm here for the good info also. 

SBB

[sadunbar]

I Live near Fuel Moto. I am not a "shill" as you suggest SB-BS. This site is an open forum to Pass info that may help your fellow riders. I stop by frequently to witness CVO and other interesting Harley Davidson bikes do their thing on the dyno. I have known Jamie for years and know of no other Dyno tuner that comes close. DYNO SHEETS DONT LIE!, Compare products. I recomend FUEL MOTO to any one that want's great service and parts with a smile and guarentee. I have Steve Fullsac's core's, Windvest Wind screen, Xenon lamps and many other products that have come to light on this site. Thank you every one for thousands of threads on testing and word of mouth impressions that were allowed to be on this site with out critisism.   Thanks BBS for your comment. 

I think you may have missed Chip's point...  Nothing against Jamie or his work.  (I used Jamie and Fuel Moto on my first 04 SEEG and was very happy with his work...)  But your comments in bold and bold statements such as "know of no other Dyno tuner that comes close" are a bit over the top.  Jamie is a good tuner...but there are many good tuners out there.  I may not know Jamie as well as you, but I suspect he would agree that there are many good tuners across the country - every bit as good as him.  So you found yourself on the receiving end of some good natured pokes...  If Chip was really trying to be critical of your posts, he would have simply focused on your spelling - cause he's an twice elected award winning Chithead.  But... he was trying to make a different point... that over the top statements don't do justice to either Jamie or Jamie's peers in the tuning world...

[SBB]

Makes no real sense what you are saying SBB. There are many good tuners. Nearly all the HD dealer tune. Fuel Moto is a good choice that I sincerely wanted people to hear about. My world Is not limited and it would be soap boxing for me to tout my experiences, so I won't. Check the other HD sites and you will understand Fuel Moto is top notch. I a'm not connected in any way with Fuel Moto other than gratitude and have never been paid in any way for my words.... I might have Jamie add a few psi to the PRO Charger this spring and bring the SERG up to 160hp...and I'll happily pay for the Dyno time as a happy customer.....Stay tuned!        

Hmmmmmmmmmmm
So I guess Sadunbars post didn't register?
 

I think you may have missed Chip's point...  Nothing against Jamie or his work.  (I used Jamie and Fuel Moto on my first 04 SEEG and was very happy with his work...)  But your comments in bold and bold statements such as "know of no other Dyno tuner that comes close" are a bit over the top.  Jamie is a good tuner...but there are many good tuners out there.  I may not know Jamie as well as you, but I suspect he would agree that there are many good tuners across the country - every bit as good as him.  So you found yourself on the receiving end of some good natured pokes...  If Chip was really trying to be critical of your posts, he would have simply focused on your spelling - cause he's an twice elected award winning Chithead.  But... he was trying to make a different point... that over the top statements don't do justice to either Jamie or Jamie's peers in the tuning world...

OK then, we look forward to your progress.
Good luck in your efforts.

SBB

[hd-dude]

By the way I personally witnessed 10HP plus improvements with Dynojet wide band on bikes that had perfect TTS tune ups. Wide band is the best power investment you can make in my opinion and I'm sure any one running wide band will agree. 

There is no way that a "perfect TTS" tuned bike would have 10HP less than a bike tuned with wideband sensors. The sensing or tuning technology does not make the engine produce the power, the quality of the tune does and the engine components make the power

[hd-dude]

hd dude, My blower bike made 132hp with the best possible tune on TTS with 52 lb injectors. A week later we added bigger 69 lb injectors and upped it to 142hp. with wide band we were able to pull 149hp. New pipes 154hp and the self adjust handles the change. I know of other blown SE 110's that have done well with wide band. It takes time but before long every thing will be wide band and self adjust.

Your earlier post stated that with just a wideband sensor you saw bikes make 10 additional HP. Now you are stating that other changes were made to see the added HP and this makes more sense. I still stand by my point that the wide band vs. narrow band sensors will not make a difference in HP on any given engine. The sensors themselves do not have the ability to increase power output from the engine. The quality and accuracy of the tune makes all the difference.

[Badger Mike]

I'm going with the Power Commander V and the Auto Tuner.  It seems to make the most sense to me in that the Auto Tuner continuously makes the changes that the bike is calling for to keep the bike running at what you set it.  I've had good luck with PC on my other bikes, and was not that impressed with the SE Race Tuner on my 2007 Street Glide.

[HOGMIKE]

I'm going with the Power Commander V and the Auto Tuner.  It seems to make the most sense to me in that the Auto Tuner continuously makes the changes that the bike is calling for to keep the bike running at what you set it.  I've had good luck with PC on my other bikes, and was not that impressed with the SE Race Tuner on my 2007 Street Glide.

That's whats nice about the Harley ECM. It will make adjustments factoring in altitude, gas quality, load, rpm, temp, and a few other inputs to determine where to set the fuel/spark to get the best burn at these changing conditions. Their target is 14.6 stock (I think) closed loop, but this can be changed with a tuning device such as the Mastertune.
This will  allow you to keep all the efficiency of a closed loop system yet tweak the tables a bit to take advantage of add-on mufflers, etc.
Remember, your goal is to have a sweet running bike under all conditions. You don't really want to lose power under cruise conditions, do you?
I have played with my tune a bit, just to see how much is too much fuel....people following me complained of headaches due to exhaust fumes!!! LOL
I am back on track, and my bike runs great!
Good luck with your new bike and tuning device.
 

[Steve Cole]

By the way I personally witnessed improvements with Dynojet wide band on bikes that had TTS tune ups[/b]. Wide band is the best power investment you can make in my opinion and I'm sure any one running wide band will agree.  

I guess I've missed this thread along the way but let's straighten out a few things to start with. A PC-V does not use Wide Band Sensors. If you look at the Bosch data what they and most other aftermarket companies are using are called Broad Band Sensors.

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/Oxgen_Sensor__Cat_WEB.pdf

go down toward the end and you will find them page D8. Oxygen Sensor Type Code LSU 4.2
“Broadband” Sensor

Now as far as needing to add a PC-V on top of a properly tuned Factory ECM your wasting time and money as you can tune everything a PC-V can right in the factory ECM. All one needs to do is set the fuel mixture and timing properly to start with. Now it's his choice to do it his way but it's not due to the fact that you need to do it that way! If you also spend some time searching into the Broadband sensors they have a few problems of there own. It's right there in the Bosch documents and all anyone needs to do is spend a little time and read them. Once you've read the specifications see if your add-on device follows the specifications. I'm sure you will find that they do not and that is just why they cannot do an auto tuner. This has been discussed many times before so just do a little searching on the internet and you can find all the answers out there.