Topic: Question about suspension (Read 10336 times)

litox · « **on:** May 01, 2004, 10:28:17 AM »

Hi! Haven't posted in a while but have been reading and riding almost every day!

I have a question for you all... Two weeks ago while riding on the freeway along with a friend on his v-rod we encountered a huge BMW group. My friend decided to show this group how fast the v-rod is (BMW riders in Mexico always drive VERY fast). He accelerated and I followed.

You all know what the FLHTCSE is capable of doing, so I had no problems following my friend all the way to around 170 KPH (a little more than 106 MPH). Now, I know that our bike is not designed as a high-speed bike but the engine has plenty of power to accelerate to very high speeds.

Anyway, around 110 MPH the front end started shaking so bad that I really thought I was going to fall. The roads in Mexico are sometimes really bad, but this happened on a straight and level part of a toll way that was in perfect condition. Imagine the front of the bike shaking vigorously at that speed. It was really scary.

My dealer explained that this is caused by the low-rider suspension the bike has. The springs do not have the normal

110tHunDer · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2004, 11:19:21 AM »

Miguel, I don't believe it is the suspension. On the Delphi Electra Glide Garage board there has been a lot of discussion about this on all the Electra Glide models (Standard, Classic, and Ultra Classic). The conversation over there has blamed the way the air flows around the front of these bikes (batwing fairing, fairing lowers, etc.).

That being said, some guy's bikes seem to be totally unaffected by this and other's are. For instance, I had a '02 Classic that was rock solid when it topped out at an indicated 108mph. Likewise, my SEEG has seen an indicated 112mph (and still pulling, but backed off) with no sign of the high speed wobbles. On the other hand, the service manager at my dealer gets a new Ultra Classic each year. He has never had one that exhibited this problem until the 2003 he got last year. This leads me to believe that the problem may lie in the steering head bearings where some bikes may have been adjusted more loosely than others at the factory and therefore exhibit the wobble. To back this up, my '02 Classic never would pass the "fall away" test whenever I did it at home, meaning the bearings were on the tight side of the spec. But I decided not to mess with it knowing I may sacrifice some of the high speed handling. You may want to take this up with your dealer before going to the expense of the suspension changes you mentioned.

By the way, love the story of your loco friend doing 110mph on the way home from taking delivery. [smiley=beerchug.gif]

Cabo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2004, 01:33:24 PM »

FYI..Ive been to 120mph with no wobble...I had a puckered A$$ but the bike handled fine.

I would question your front/rear alinement.

starvin · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2004, 02:22:11 PM »

I read somewhere that a policeman's family had a law suit against HD when he was killed in a crash during a high speed chase due to what they called high speed front end wobble. Caused by the wind taking the weight off the front end due to the shape of the fairing. Don't know how it turned out. I've had mine over 100mph a few times but never for any extended time and the bike seemed very stable.
http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/lawsuit1.htm
something to think about [smiley=thinking2.gif]

mr_magoo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2004, 08:14:22 AM »

Have buried the speedo (over120) several times once for well over 20miles. Was riding 2up at the time, no wobble what so ever. Have not experience it riding solo either. Would have dealer check the steering head bearings, good luck.

DEAN_NELSON · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2004, 10:57:55 AM »

Miguel,

103thunder has the right story as I have seen. Try taking off the lowers off the crash bar and go for a ride. See if it runs straght line. Than adjust the front neck bearings as the book tells you to than over tightin them just a little. It will go away.
You will find with the lowers off it might be fine, put them back on and you will have the problem back. That is when you adjust the bearings just a little over tight.

When we convert the Harleys to our trike kit we do the bearing adjusting. If the bike had mis-adjusted bearings the customer thinks it was the trike kit that was the problem and it will be the adjustment that was the problem.

When our SEEG was new and I rode it for 500 miles I had it up to 105 with Sue on the back it ran just fine. When I took it apart to convert to the trike I checked the front neck bearings and they were just a little over tight and that is how I left them.

One last item to look at ............check your tire psi. and how much air you running in the rear shock in reguards to the total pounds?

Dean

JCZ · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2004, 06:12:11 PM »

Motorcycle Consumer News (simular to Consumer Reports, only for the motorcycle industry) printed an article awhile back that addresss the problem and a correction using laser alignment.

It's not the fairing. I've owned two Ultra Classics prior to the SEEG and had both of them in every type of situation and at speeds over 115 mph many times, each with no problems.

However, on my SEEG in a sweeping left hand curve, if I catch a slight dip, it will start pogo-ing first, then the wobbles and that is only right around 80. If I speed up (whcih is really hard to do, since the natural instint is to hit the binders) it smooths back out. I noticed AK's bike do it a little this morning, when we were coming down out of the mountains and I was behind him, in the pack.

By the way, we were well over 100 for a long ways and up to 120 mph several times this morning. No wobbles on the straight aways for any of us, even if there were slight dips in the road. By the way, two of the bikes were being ridden by single women, and they both hung with us! [smiley=laugh.gif]

110tHunDer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2004, 06:16:39 PM »

Quote

By the way, two of the bikes were being ridden by single women, and they both hung with us! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Key word being "single." [smiley=worthless.gif]

JCZ · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2004, 06:52:46 PM »

Quote

Key word being "single."

110tHunDer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2004, 07:38:57 PM »

Well, I'm happily married, but couldn't resist responding. [smiley=laugh.gif] Great pix, though and looks like it was a fabulous day in your neck of the woods today (not here!).

Miguel, Sorry to get thread off-topic! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] To get it back on, JCZ is right in saying the alignment has also been blamed for this. At any rate, if I was a betting man, I would bet that your problem gets resolved by looking into the things you've already been pointed to in the prior posts. Please keep us informed as to what you find out!

JCZ · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2004, 09:10:28 PM »

I sent an email to Motorcycle Consumer News. I'll let you guys know what I find out from them, on the wobble problem.

litox · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2004, 09:25:44 PM »

Thank you for the great info. It seems I have a great deal of research in front of me. I will keep you informed. You guys are great and this forum is an excellent information resource!

litox · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2004, 10:07:51 PM »

Well, been surfing the web and came across "fork braces" and "fork stabilizers" for Harley Davidson motorcycles. I had planned to install a superbrace on my v-rod but hadn't considered before installing one of the Glide.

Do any of you guys have something similar installed on a touring HD bike? Would this device help me to get rid of the wobble?? As always thank you for all your replies!

Miguel

VIKING · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2004, 10:30:38 PM »

I've also buried the needle and been clocked on radar at 138.
A very solid ride with no wobbles.
Just some mach tuck from air dam buildup.

ak · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2004, 01:03:58 AM »

Quote

Motorcycle Consumer News (simular to Consumer Reports, only for the motorcycle industry) printed an article awhile back that addresss the problem and a correction using laser alignment.

It's not the fairing.

JCZ · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2004, 09:32:02 AM »

Quote

JC;regarding "I NOTICED AK,S BIKE" i was burning the road behind throttle lip

ggraves427 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2004, 10:34:46 PM »

With lowers and tour pak on, I got up to about 110MPH and it started a wobble, I did not say anything to anyone, I was afraid I would be accused of wimping out. it sure got my attention. Will try it with lowers and tour pak off.

JCZ · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2004, 11:24:14 PM »

AK and I both had our leg fairings on and I had the King Tour Pak loaded, and my wife, at 120, with no problems. For me, the fairings, and other parts of the bike have little to do with it. It's the tracking and the road.

mr_magoo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2004, 08:45:56 AM »

Thats the problem riding with nice butts AK they can be a distraction. [smiley=gorgeous.gif]

Kingsalmon · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2004, 10:31:32 AM »

Just to add to the survey, I get a little wobble at 80+ on the curves if I hit a bump. It straightens itself out without me having to lift on the throttle. I figure its because of uneven weight distribution in the saddle bags. I have a bag of tools on the right side. I hit 110 to 115 a few times a week and no wobble at all.

bostonut · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2004, 07:11:51 PM »

Quote

FYI..Ive been to 120mph with no wobble...I had a puckered A$$ but the bike handled fine.

At 125 mine was as smoothe as silk.......with the lowers on

litox · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2004, 09:02:33 PM »

Just came back from a long weekend trip (1,000 miles). I removed the King Tour-Pack and the bike handled perfectly... I kept the lowers. I forgot to tell you guys that I have the fairing air deflectors installed so they can also be part of the problem.

I will try again with tour pack installed and no deflectors...

falcon · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2004, 03:56:26 PM »

My bike wobbles like crazy on fast turns also. I was riding the express ways out of the Smokey Mountains heading back to Michigan and there were a lot of 45/55 mph curves. I had my daughter on the back so at the very most I may have hit 75 mph ( if that ). At first I thought the wobble was because of low air in the tires or shocks, I checked both and increased to 20psi in the shocks, it did little to help. I'm not happy and I would like to get it fixed so please keep the post coming on this subject.
Thanks

BTW the bike scraped a lot while we were riding in the mountains and on Deals Gap but I guess we never went fast enough to make it wobble.

JCZ · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2004, 04:22:18 PM »

I had an HD Factory Trained and Factory Certified Tech point something out to me. Stand behind your bike about 15 feet and look at the center of your fender (eyeball down from the little V medallion) to the center of your tire (center tread) and see if they line up.

If you have a wobble problem and your bike is out of alignement, take it to your dealer and tell them you need an alignment. Gary has also posted comments on this in the Road Glide forum. As I understand it from the tech. the factory is not aligning all bikes from the factory. It has to do with your motor mounts up front......all the way back through the drive train.

garya1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2004, 07:01:55 PM »

JCZ is right, it COULD be your vehicle alignment. To repeat part of an earlier post, one of my employees used to be a wrench at SAC HD. He said 80% of the NEW vehicles he checked were out of alignment right from the factory.

Also in another post, I talked about the True Track unit and I REALLY found this to be a great help. In fact along with the progressive shocks I installed on my 01 SERG, It now handles very good. With no passenger, my buddy on his new 120 HD Race Motor and I did well over 125 mph for around 5 miles just outside of Needles on the way to Laughlin and everything was stable. (speed estimated, speedo buried!) We also did over 300 miles at around 105 - 110 and even with heavy winds that day, it was a steady ride.

Check out the true track for dressers at:
http://www.true-track.com

This MAY BE a good candidate for one of JCZ's world famous "GROUP BUYS"
There is a tool required to make sure your lower frame cross member is propoerly aligned / staightened. We bought the pro model tool for my bud's shop here in Stockton and he could do the install for anyone in this area or I guess I could mail it on a loan basis to someone. You MUST use the tool once before installing the true track unit.

And before anyone asks, I am in NO WAY affiliated with true-track. I just like to share good things when I find them with everyone one this site because everyone here is so helpful when I need help [smiley=bigok.gif]

JCZ · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2004, 10:19:01 PM »

For those of you who are newer, on this site, Gary is a guy who is a living example of somebody who takes it to the edge (or plays it to the edge). For instance, here is his dyno sheet.....

JCZ · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2004, 10:24:14 PM »

Gary I only have a slight wobble, once in a great while.....so I'm going to go with the alignment first. If that doesn't work, then I'll probably go with the Tru Track.

Darrellh · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2004, 11:27:13 PM »

I have had this problem 3 times with 3 different bikes over the years. Of course it was never the same solution on any of the bikes. Each time the problem occurred, the bike was new. On one bike it was a steering head bearing, but it was more of a weave than a wobble. On another bike it was vehicle alignment and again it was more of a weave than a wobble. And on the last bike it was a missing wheel spacer on the rear wheel, which resulted in a violent tank slapper between 120-140kph. In all cases the problem was repaired and never occurred again.

Based on my experiences, if you are experiencing a weave instead of a wobble it is likely either the steering head or alignment. If you have a wobble there is something seriously wrong with your bike. In either case I wouldn't be testing it any more than you need to or you may not get out of the next one so easily. Tank slappers are scary as he!!, especially in a corner.

garya1 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2004, 08:29:49 AM »

JCZ,

I need to scan in my newest dyno sheet for this 116 inch. With the White Bros. E series slip-ons, standard core and 14 disks with open end cap, HP is now 109.7 and TQ is 136.1 after re-dyno-tuning.

I now have this problem with "accidental wheelies" going into 2nd gear [smiley=bigok.gif]

No, I am not currently looking for a cure! Unlike suspension problems, I plan to just live with this problem.

Call me when you want to do the vehicle alignment.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #29 on:** May 13, 2004, 09:53:44 AM »

Quote

JCZ,

I need to scan in my newest dyno sheet for this 116 inch. With the White Bros. E series slip-ons, standard core and 14 disks with open end cap, HP is now 109.7 and TQ is 136.1 after re-dyno-tuning.

I now have this problem with "accidental wheelies" going into 2nd gear [smiley=bigok.gif]

No, I am not currently looking for a cure! Unlike suspension problems, I plan to just live with this problem.

Call me when you want to do the vehicle alignment.

Hell, forget the vehicle alignment, did you do the tuning on your bike?

JCZ · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2004, 10:45:56 AM »

Quote

Hell, forget the vehicle alignment, did you do the tuning on your bike?

Gary's tunning was done at a shop in Stockton, Ca. He's not saying, but I think he secreatly owns it or something. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

garya1 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 14, 2004, 08:24:06 AM »

Actually the final tuning was done on the dyno at Modesto HD. There is a very good dyno guy there named Jack, The shop in Stockton Double D Customs) did the build, but they do not yet have a dyno. And NO I don't own any of the shop, just a good friend.

Since my 01 SERG had the Magneti / Morelli EFI system we could not use the race turner. The original cartridge in the bike was for the factory 95 inch kit. When it went onto the dyno we could not get enough fuel with the PC IIIR. I then drove to Walnut Creek, got a SE 103 map cartridge, retruned to Modesto and after loading it, we then could get enough fuel with the PC IIIR unit and that resulted in the chart JCZ posted. That was about a year ago.

A good dyno guy is worth his weight in donuts and lunches! (I bring donuts and buy lunch every time I take a bike down to Modesto for a dyno tune!)

zwild · « **Reply #32 on:** May 16, 2004, 10:48:31 AM »

I frequently bury the speedo... that how I drive and I only experenced the high speed wobble one time it was very windy and the road wasn't the very best so I just shrugged it off.

falcon · « **Reply #33 on:** May 23, 2004, 10:44:45 AM »

UPDATE: Took my bike to the dealer for the wobble...he rubbed his hand on the tire...said the tread was cupped and that my belt inside the tire must have slipped to one side....he put on a new tire...sent me on my way. Road test:125mph on straight away..95mph on the curves...PERFECT...all is well, once again. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Author Topic: Question about suspension (Read 10336 times)

starvin