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[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Seems none of these cranks are passing the test.
.016" out-of-true condition, on this one.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."
Scott

[harleycharlie1992]

I kept telling everybody that the crank is made the same way the others were...badly!! nobody wanted to listen, and all said they are tighter on the press fit. I remember just shaking my head!!! hate to say it but: I told ya so

[sadunbar]

Seems none of these cranks are passing the test.
.016" out-of-true condition, on this one.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."
Scott

Mine is less than .001...  I have over 15K trouble free miles so far.   

[laylonlor]

wouldn't it still have  to be plugged  and welded , so what good is buying one  of these pieces of junk , just build you own120

[Black Diamond]

Seems none of these cranks are passing the test.
.016" out-of-true condition, on this one.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."
Scott

Looking in to the SE 120R at this time.
I have communicated with several that are currently using the SE120R. I've heard of some lifter issues.
Yours is the first with the crank issue.

How many have you measured? How many were have had a crank problem?

JW

[grc]

wouldn't it still have  to be plugged  and welded , so what good is buying one  of these pieces of junk , just build you own120

Considering the idea that many folks immediately change out some of the parts that come stock anyway, that might be a better idea.

Until Harley scraps the 100 year old pressed crank design and goes with a modern one piece crank and two piece rod design, I would imagine the crank problems will only get worse as they continue to increase engine size, torque, and the weight of the bikes.  Before I'd pay them what they ask for a 120R, and then have to break it all down to send the crank out for truing and welding/plugging, I think I'd just see what a highly reputable engine builder would charge to start from scratch and build it right the first time. 

I'll be interested to see what kind of reliability S&S will have with their new T-124 replacements for the Twin Cams.  If they do well, there will finally be a viable alternative to the H-D and Jim's offerings.  Can't happen too soon IMHO.


Jerry

[CVOThunder]

Well this comes at a perfect time. My fingers have been itchin' to check on a discount price for a 120R and get a new mill installed before I come home for vacation. Now that it's resume writing time again to find a different position, any new expeditures are put on hold. At least the house refinance is almost finished so maybe it's just time to say screw working overseas and come home....to what. No jobs to look forward to in my area. Suck it up and take a wage hit is better than no job at all.

Anyway, good info gents and when the time comes I'll look into other options.

[HD Street Performance]

Well this comes at a perfect time

I would say so too but for different reasons
Business is slow for some apparently

Creates a slippery slope fallacy to say one is bad they all are crap or MOCO stuff is crap.
There are many happy owners of those 120r motors

[sadunbar]

Well this comes at a perfect time

I would say so too but for different reasons
Business is slow for some apparently

Creates a slippery slope fallacy to say one is bad they all are crap or MOCO stuff is crap.
There are many happy owners of those 120r motors

Many, many, many....  Close friends of mine, and 15k later, myself included.....   

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

We have done a fair amount of these and have not seen that run out yet..  In fact they have been extremely good and runout no more than .015 from what we have seen.. I agree many many happy campers with the 120R lower end.  We just got two more in for installs and upgrades and they are not out of spec by any means..  Both want cam swaps and nothing else.. Looking forward to these two builds..

[TexasBowhunter]

We have done a fair amount of these and have not seen that run out yet..  In fact they have been extremely good and runout no more than .015 from what we have seen.. I agree many many happy campers with the 120R lower end.  We just got two more in for installs and upgrades and they are not out of spec by any means..  Both want cam swaps and nothing else.. Looking forward to these two builds..

Steve
You mean .0015 right?

[CVOThunder]

Well as one fellow mentioned he took his new 120R apart and blueprinted the engine and trued,balanced and welded the crank when he first got it. I was thinking along those lines as well just to ensure my investment doesn't go south. I sure do enjoy watching the you tube videos of the one fellow who put a 120R in in 2010 Ultra but I guess he got it too hot in traffic and it cooked down a rear jug gasket. Anyway, I like the way it rolls out but I do wish it was in granite color. Oh well, minor deal.

So mechanic brains, which comes first...truing the crank or balancing? Seems like you'd want to true it first then weld it together so it's rigid. Then balance it due to the addition of the welding material. Just not sure how balanced the crank is or if it would even be enough weight from the welding to create a problem. I'm thinking automotive balancing is done to 1/2 gram (been awhile...maybe it's 1 gram) but when a Harley crank gets balanced just how close is the tolerance. I think this was mentioned in another thread or I'm just dreaming chit up.

Cheers

[sadunbar]

Well as one fellow mentioned he took his new 120R apart and blueprinted the engine and trued,balanced and welded the crank when he first got it. I was thinking along those lines as well just to ensure my investment doesn't go south. I sure do enjoy watching the you tube videos of the one fellow who put a 120R in in 2010 Ultra but I guess he got it too hot in traffic and it cooked down a rear jug gasket. Anyway, I like the way it rolls out but I do wish it was in granite color. Oh well, minor deal.

So mechanic brains, which comes first...truing the crank or balancing? Seems like you'd want to true it first then weld it together so it's rigid. Then balance it due to the addition of the welding material. Just not sure how balanced the crank is or if it would even be enough weight from the welding to create a problem. I'm thinking automotive balancing is done to 1/2 gram (been awhile...maybe it's 1 gram) but when a Harley crank gets balanced just how close is the tolerance. I think this was mentioned in another thread or I'm just dreaming chit up.

Cheers

There is no need to rebalance a crank assembly after welding, if you chose to weld the crank...Quite honeslty, if your crank is true, I'd suggest leaving it alone...

[Twolanerider]

Quite honeslty, if your crankj is true, I'd suggest leaving it alone...

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not a motto that sells parts and labor though Scott.

[sadunbar]

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not a motto that sells parts and labor though Scott.

lol....  So true... 

[HD Street Performance]

I am sure the 120r cuts into the 117 upgrades but from the consumer side why wouldn't it?
The 120 will scale up too
This is a 120r kit with ported CVO110 heads I did, 10.8/1 2000 FLH with MM / HPI injection 662-2 cam

[Unbalanced]

Agreeing with Dewey now isnt that a switch.   Even a completely stock 120r isnt all that bad .

Stock 120r with a 55mm HPI throttlebody and Bassani 2/1, ventilator air cleaner.

[cvobiker]

Seems none of these cranks are passing the test.
.016" out-of-true condition, on this one.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."
Scott

you mean you were really expecting different from Harley???.. I think the only thing Harley learned from Jim's was;  ' Lets call it a racing engine'.  Amazing what titles do to boost sales..   But if Harley was smart, they would also learn where Jim's reputation went.. 

[Steve Cole]

What I can say is that I'm the one that tore mine down up front and I'm glad I did. On the other hand even after doing it, I would do it again regardless just for piece of mind if I was to do it again. If you look at what you get for the money you can afford to take it apart and clean things up and your still money ahead for most comparable aftermarket builds. I've got a good engine in the 120R for $4200 + about $400 more to tear it apart and clean it up. So for some of my time and $4600 I have a well built 120R with a trued, welded and plugged crankshaft. Where you going to find that from the aftermarket engines?

While I wish you could just bolt it in and go, some are having issues and others are not. With my luck I would have been in the having trouble group. For what it's worth my factory run out was .0005" on one side and .0008" on the other side. Once the timken conversion and crankwork was done I now have .0004" and .0005" so I'm happy and I do not have to worry about it changing anytime soon.

[Black Diamond]

What I can say is that I'm the one that tore mine down up front and I'm glad I did. On the other hand even after doing it, I would do it again regardless just for piece of mind if I was to do it again. If you look at what you get for the money you can afford to take it apart and clean things up and your still money ahead for most comparable aftermarket builds. I've got a good engine in the 120R for $4200 + about $400 more to tear it apart and clean it up. So for some of my time and $4600 I have a well built 120R with a trued, welded and plugged crankshaft. Where you going to find that from the aftermarket engines?

While I wish you could just bolt it in and go, some are having issues and others are not. With my luck I would have been in the having trouble group. For what it's worth my factory run out was .0005" on one side and .0008" on the other side. Once the timken conversion and crankwork was done I now have .0004" and .0005" so I'm happy and I do not have to worry about it changing anytime soon.

Steve, How many miles have you got on yours? Any issues to date? Have you heard of any crank issues in the range Scott posted about?

JW

[HD Street Performance]

There will be the owners that want to take them apart. I see the logic however at the same time a little tweaking can bring up a few more ponies and there are some known issues not one offs that make the news and garner bandwidth. Certainly the indy shops have opportunities to make a few bucks the root cause of the animosity between indy shops and the MOCO is the parts selling policy.
Once again on the consumer side this is not their problem and it is not hard to have a strong running bike that doesn't break the bank and still have the stock motor on the side unmolested as a backup or for resale.

[Unbalanced]

Steve,

Where can I buy a 120r for 4200.00?  Who is doing the crankwork for 400.00?   

[geezerglide]

Steve,

Where can I buy a 120r for 4200.00? 

Best price I can find is $4,700.00.

geezerglide

[HD Street Performance]

It has a 30-day lead time per Rebecca at Tri-County, price was $4556.76 FYI.  Shipping is on top of that

[geezerglide]

It has a 30-day lead time per Rebecca at Tri-County, price was $4556.76 FYI.  Shipping is on top of that

Will check it out.

Thanks Dewey,

[Lever]

I am sure the 120r cuts into the 117 upgrades but from the consumer side why wouldn't it?
I would  want the (117) being it would be a torq monster  bore and stroke being the same

[Steve Cole]

I will have to go find my receipt but that is what I paid for it a few years back when they first came out. As for crank work I have a friend that works at a local shop that does the crankshaft so I just took it over there. The timken machine work I did myself along with the assemble work. Took the heads apart and checked them and they were fine other than completely dry. Not one drop of lube anywhere in them which I did not like. To me it wasn't about more power than it already makes it was just the little things when I pulled the rocker boxes and shafts I did not like and the next thing I knew I took the whole thing apart as the cam chest was dry as well.

I've got my 103 complete sitting up on the shelf if I decide to swap back in the future or if I buy a new bike. The only thing I think I would have done different is change the valve springs as I felt there was just too much pressure for a street motor but I just didn't know for sure so I left them. Had a buddy just break a spring on his 120R at 30K on his so I'm going to swap mine just to be safe. Some lifter wear has been showing up and I think a little lighter spring is going to help reduce that wear. For drag racing the heavy springs are just fine but for long life I think they are too much and with a few failures along with lifter wear comeing to the surface I think dropping them down in pressure will be a good thing for a street bike.

[HD Street Performance]

I have been using AV&V beehives for this same reason. I set to 175# seat and 385# at .66 lift

There have been issues with the lifter rollers skating and that can be pinned (Root Cause Analysis) to lobes that are not ground perpendicular thus not full lobe to roller contact. Putting the cams in V-blocks on a granite table and checking this wise.

[prodrag1320]

ide spend a little more & have a good shop build your existing motor to 124" using S&S parts,we do alot of them,find the price to be competitive with HD price for a WAY better motor

[petewerner]

Agreeing with Dewey now isnt that a switch.   Even a completely stock 120r isnt all that bad .

Stock 120r with a 55mm HPI throttlebody and Bassani 2/1, ventilator air cleaner.

I had to change my Ventilator to a Heavy Breather during my dyno tune, it was not putting out nearly what was expected when I suggested that maybe a heavy breather would help. They put it on and got 7 more hp/ 5 tq. I am running a 58mm throttlebody which was part of the new stage 4 install. Just got home from Sturgis and my bike is much more fun/fast/etc. Great time

[Unbalanced]

It has a 30-day lead time per Rebecca at Tri-County, price was $4556.76 FYI.  Shipping is on top of that

I paid a little under 4600 plus tax last time which is why I would love to know where i can get one for 4200.00 which was why i asked.   Dealer cost is approx 39xx.00   and Shipping from Jenny on my last motor was about 300.00 last time.   If i can get one for 4200 I break even and get the throttlebody too

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not a motto that sells parts and labor though Scott.

MOST CERTAINLY, not the reason for the topic of this crankshaft failure.
Only info that we were sharing.........

[prodrag1320]

i didnt understand that remark either

[Twolanerider]

i didnt understand that remark either

Nothing to misunderstand and not at all obtuse.  Scott D understood when I responded to him and Scotty seemed to get the gist of it too.  Sorry you missed it.

[Black Diamond]

Seems none of these cranks are passing the test.
.016" out-of-true condition, on this one.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends."
Scott

Scott P.

Not tossing any rocks your way, simply looking for details. Your OP says "none of these cranks are passing the test"
I'm looking into a 120R at this time. So if you could let me know how many 120R cranks are you talking about. Have you tested more than the one? If so what have you found?

Steve C.

Would still like to know how many miles you have on yours with / without issues?

JW
JW

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott P.

Not tossing any rocks your way, simply looking for details. Your OP says "none of these cranks are passing the test"
I'm looking into a 120R at this time. So if you could let me know how many 120R cranks are you talking about. Have you tested more than the one? If so what have you found?

Steve C.

Would still like to know how many miles you have on yours with / without issues?

JW
JW

We've witnessed all of the manufacturer's, pressed-togather cranks(not pointing fingers at the 120R's, only) sissor.
First 120R we've seen slip, though.
Had about 4,000 on it.
Scott

[Black Diamond]

Thanks for the clarification.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

You bet.
Scott

[Steve Cole]

Steve C.

Would still like to know how many miles you have on yours with / without issues?

JW
JW

Not many as I have a bad back and while the weather here has been great for riding all I can do at this time is look at the bike. I hope to be able to start riding again in a few weeks but you never know.

[Black Diamond]

Not many as I have a bad back and while the weather here has been great for riding all I can do at this time is look at the bike. I hope to be able to start riding again in a few weeks but you never know.

Sorry to hear about your back. Thanks anyway.

JW

[CowboyBagger]

For all of you with a 120R, how would you rate in comparison to the 110 the heating issue.  Does it run hotter, cooler or about the same as the 110?

Ryan

[sadunbar]

For all of you with a 120R, how would you rate in comparison to the 110 the heating issue.  Does it run hotter, cooler or about the same as the 110?

Ryan

I found mine ran about 10 degrees hotter oil temperature (thermocouple in oil pan to dash mounted oil temperature gauge).  About 230 vs. 220 as compared to the 110.  But...I removed the MOCO oil cooler and installed a Jag 10 row oil cooler, which dropped me back to 220.  The comparison is highway speeds, two up pulling a Bushtec.  Riding solo without the Bushtec, oil runs about 210 with the 120r...

More cubic inches and added compression will produce more heat - no two ways about it...

[robertg]

For all of you with a 120R, how would you rate in comparison to the 110 the heating issue.  Does it run hotter, cooler or about the same as the 110?

Ryan

When I ride with my brother who has a 2012 110, his bike goes in to parade mode before my 120 does. I also get better fuel mileage than a stock 96 or 110 at 75-80 mph. My 120 is stock with the exception of a 0.032" head gasket. I'm running a Wegner exhaust and TTS tuned by myself.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARLEY-DAVIDSON-TWIN-CAM-120R-ENGINE-built-SHORT-BLOCK-CHARLIE-/130634650276?hash=item1e6a6e92a4&item=130634650276&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

$10K???