Topic: Monotubes vs HD Premium Fork kit (Read 8282 times)

tlr · « **on:** November 26, 2012, 12:52:18 PM »

I am putting together my winter mod list and I want to change out my front suspension. I have read all the very positive reviews regarding Progressives Monotubes but very little regarding HD's similar product, Premium Ride Double Cartridge Fork Kit. If anyone has a comparison or general opinions on how they differ that would be very helpful.

Similarly, I am looking at swapping out the rears as well. I had Ohlins 3-3's on last ride and liked them alot but also thinking about the Progressives 940/944.

Thanks

16HD117 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »

Send 110THunder a PM. He recently had the HD kit installed. Also, you may want to consider the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20's for the front and Bitobo 330's for the rear.

http://www.traxxion.com/AK-20AxxionCartridgeKit_Harley-Davidson.aspx

http://www.traxxion.com/bituboshocksforharley-davidsonmotorcycles.aspx

110tHunDer · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:25:16 PM »

I think I'm only one of a handful of guys on here that has the H-D double cartridge front suspension, so a direct comparison to the Progressive Monotubes might be tough to find. Coming from the AK-20s on my '04 SEEG, I'd give the H-D kit a 6, maybe 7, tops (AK-20s being a "10" and stock being a "1"). From what I've read of other's experience with the monotubes, they are similar in performance. Still too much dive and harshness for me versus the AK-20s. I had free labor on the install, so just have the $400 investment in parts, which was my reason for trying the H-D stuff. I don't know that I'll ever change it out, but it is definitely a compromise coming from the gold standard AK-20s.

Do a search on "monotubes H-D cartridges." there is a thread or two where there was some concern about the longevity of the monotubes. Some have had to replace them, others have 30,000+ miles and no trouble. But that could be a deciding factor for you. After having a couple junk sets of Progressive 440 shocks, I didn't want any troubles from the front end. I am also not a fan of ride from the 940s, but as with all this stuff, it's a matter of personal opinion. I have the Bitubos Tommy pointed you to. I love their adjustability and ride and handling, one-up or two-up. I would think the 940 or 944 would be a step down from the Ohlins you're used to.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2012, 04:30:52 PM »

Never had Progressives to compare to but like 110tHunDer I have Traxxion AK20s (on my '07 CUSE2) and simply did not want to spend the $$$$ required to upgrade my '12 CUSE7 and I went with the H-D Premium Ride Cartridges. I think I was the first who did so to post about it.

Anyway, I like them. While not as good as the Traxxion for my needs they are just fine. In fact I think the ride quality is better. The Traxxion's give unsurpassed control but I don't ride aggressively enough to need that much and I think the ride is a bit harsher - but then that compares my '07 to my '12 and old vs new style frames which may be like comparing apples and oranges.

I elected to not go with the Progressive monotubes for a couple reasons: The cartridges are gas charged and there have been some (maybe not a lot but enough for me to find out about them) of leakage. Only remedy then is to pull and replace. While Progressive would warranty the part they do not cover the labor which can be considerable. And Progressive themselves told me the service life of the cartridge is only 50k. I ride a lot and would not want the expense of replacing them at that interval. The H-Ds and the Traxxion AK20s are not gas charged and avoid these issues. They can be serviced with more modest cost of just replacing any worn parts.

Midnight Rider · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2012, 06:38:00 PM »

I cannot speak to the Ohlins, but I know for a fact that the Bitubo shocks are top notch if you don't need to lower the bike because of being vertically challenged. I have the Legend Air Ride on my '11 SERGU, and had them on my '06 SEUC as well. They are improved over the earlier models (larger air boot), but if I were buying a straight up shock for the rear end, there's no doubt about what I'd pick...Bitubo. I can't imagine anything better.

Front end? I have the AK-20's. They are a 10 on a scale of 1-10, as Brian mentioned. My second choice would likely be a tie between the HD and the Progressive. Handling is a big thing for me though...I will put money into suspension before I will put money into cams and other related stuff. I'd rather be able to ride the bike in curves and twisties fast than go fast in a straight line. If somebody wants to outrun me in a 1/4 mile, I could give a chit...But, I'll catch ya' in the turns, I promise.

But that's just me. Of course, if you live in Corn//Wheat country, that may not be a deciding factor. The AK-20's are firm, but not harsh, if that makes any sense. It's maybe like riding a Porche compared to a newer model Cadillac. I prefer the Porche feel, while other's like the Caddy.

tlr · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:27:10 PM »

Gentlemen,

You are all a wealth of useful information. I called a couple of service departments at some dealers and none of them could tell me if the HD Fork kit or Progressive Monotubes were worth it. Basically they told me that there probably isn't a difference so save your $$. Oh well. based on the info here I am going to go with the HD kit. I have now narrowed the shocks between the Ohlins 3-3 or the BiTurbos which are actually cheaper. The 330's are mentioned and they are 13". as I have the 2012 SESG, will that raise the bike. I am thinking that standard shocks are 12". I am nicely flatfooted now but dont want to give up any space there. I am also assuming that the BiTurbos are easy to install and adjust. I have installed shocks on my previous rides. Thanks for all the help in making the right decision and spending some cash.

Ted

110tHunDer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:31:03 PM »

You can get the Bitubos in 300mm. I had those on my SEEG. Really transformed the ride quality of that bike, which was lowered on both ends from the factory.

Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:36:41 PM »

Re: Bitubo adjustment, Traxxion should send them to you already adjusted. I checked the ones I got for my SEUC against the procedure outlined in the manual and it was spot-on. Once you get the initial set-up correct, all I've ever had to do on either bike is adjust the compression dampening dial a few clicks firmer when carrying a passenger or load. With the canister mounted on top, this can be done easily by simply opening the saddlebag lid to gain access.

tlr · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:39:55 PM »

sounds awesome. I wonder if Rebecca at Tri County would extend her discount for these. worth a try. I sent Traxxion an email to help decide what size to get. I dont want to get lower, but I also dont want to be much higher. decisions....

110tHunDer · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:45:51 PM »

Not sure on the Tri-County discount, but Traxxion offers a 10% discount to site members if you end up going directly to them.

SDCVO · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2012, 11:36:21 PM »

I have the Ohlin 6's in the rear and the HD Premium's in the front and it rides amazing if that helps

VaEagle · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2012, 02:38:06 AM »

I like my H-D Premium Fork kit with Suspension Technologies USA shocks.
Info in this thread :

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=76154.0

tlr · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2012, 10:00:35 PM »

I emailed Traxxion yesterday and received a prompt response. I had asked what size shock would be best (330 vs 300) for my 12 SESG. The response stated that they have had some issues wit the fitment for the 12's and that they are looking into a solution. Anybody here have any insight or experience with this issue?

110tHunDer · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2012, 06:48:00 AM »

I'm not sure if there would be anything different about a SESG (doesn't really seem like it), but here is how I mounted them on my '12 SEUC. The grommet where the bag lock wires come out did touch the top of the canister, so I shimmed the front bag mounting bracket slightly to relieve the tiny bit of pressure that was on it, but other than that, no problems.

"Black Diamond" had 300mm Bitubos on his '11 SESG. Might want to check with him to see if he had any fitment issues.

tlr · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2012, 06:59:48 AM »

thanks for the pic. I think I see what you are referring to. I dont think that anything has changed from 09 forward so I am not sure either. I was going to give them a call to discuss further. I will let you all know once I find out.

T

Midnight Rider · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2012, 12:04:45 PM »

Quote from: tlr on November 28, 2012, 06:59:48 AM

thanks for the pic. I think I see what you are referring to. I dont think that anything has changed from 09 forward so I am not sure either. I was going to give them a call to discuss further. I will let you all know once I find out.

T

Did you talk to Dan at Traxxion? I can't imagine that the SG is any different than the SEUC with regards to bag fitment...the '12 SG had speakers in the lid. Perhaps that wiring is different than the lock/Ipod wiring on the SEUC? The Bitubo's have always been a tight fit, but Brian's solution to shim the bag mounting bracket out a smidge works great. For ease of adjustment, you want the compression damping knob, located on the top of the black canister you see in the photo on top of the shock. It can be mounted upside down...the shock does't care...but it makes it a little more difficult to set the compression damping knob when you ride two up.

With regards to 300 vs 330 mm...the stock SESG has a 12" shock on the rear and standard height for the front end. If you like or need (because of inseam length) the lowered rear, you'll want the 300mm size. If you want to have more ground clearance in curves and the added 1" in the rear doesn't matter about getting your feet on the ground, I'd go with the 330mm. You'll drag fewer parts when riding hard in the turns.

tlr · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2012, 12:38:30 PM »

I just got off the phone with Dan. He too is perplexed. He has not seen a 12, but several clients that purchased the Bitubo's have told him about the bag hitting. I have no problem with needing to shim the bag a little. I am concerned about the 330's being too long for me. inseam is at 30". I don't really want the 300's either since I don't want to lower my clearance. Dan said I would lose an inch on the 330's due to stiffer spring and longer length. I am going to also call Howard at MM and see what he says. As I stated earlier I did have the 3-3's on my 09.

Midnight Rider · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2012, 01:00:48 PM »

Quote from: tlr on November 28, 2012, 12:38:30 PM

I just got off the phone with Dan. He too is perplexed. He has not seen a 12, but several clients that purchased the Bitubo's have told him about the bag hitting. I have no problem with needing to shim the bag a little. I am concerned about the 330's being too long for me. inseam is at 30". I don't really want the 300's either since I don't want to lower my clearance. Dan said I would lose an inch on the 330's due to stiffer spring and longer length. I am going to also call Howard at MM and see what he says. As I stated earlier I did have the 3-3's on my 09.

With the 300's (11.811 inches), you won't be lowering your bike from where it is right now...it's already got a 12" rear shock. The 330's (12.9921 inches) would be the same as a 13" shock, which is what comes on the UC models. I would bet you that shimming the bag bracket with a washer is all that would be necessary for a proper fitment...a lot of people are not very creative when it comes to installing parts that are non stock...doing a slight mod to make things fit is no big deal. I know Ohlin makes a good shock too, but I can't imagine anything being better than the Bitubo, particularly with three way adjusting. What makes the Bitubo compression damping nice, once the spring is adjusted for the proper sag, and the rebound adjustment is set (you can then forget about it), is that there are about 12 "clicks" for adjusting, and it's a needle valve that you're adjusting, so the relationship is non linear. In other words...moving it from 3 to 7 is not the same as moving it from 7 to 10...the effect is greater with each click, the higher the number. If that makes any sense...

110tHunDer · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2012, 01:22:31 PM »

The bags hitting the shocks on these bikes is really nothing new. The bags on my '04 also came into contact with the canister. A 1" piece of fuzzy velcro on the bag at the contact point solved that issue, just like a couple of large flat washers underneath the front bag mounting bracket has done on the '12. Unless people are using the sleeves that come in the box with shocks, which would push them outward and into the bags more, I can't believe there is that much tolerance variability bike-to-bike that there would be that much of a repetitive fitment issue, particularly with the one model year. The contact with the grommet was so slight, that I probably didn't really need to do anything, as there is some "flex" in the shock bushings that allows the canister to move a bit. I just thought it would be a good idea to shim the bracket for whenever I had a load in the bags, which would tend to make them buldge a bit.

Anyway, very strange. Good luck with your decision.

tlr · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2012, 09:30:34 AM »

I have no concerns about any rubbing as well. Shimming the bag out a little is no biggie. I did speak to Howard at MM and I am very intrigued about the JRI's that he sells. I really don't think I can go wrong with any of the options that we have been discussing (Ohlins, JRI, Bitubos). Now i just have to pull the trigger. Thanks all for your insight.

Ted

knothead · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2013, 08:19:51 PM »

I had the Progressive Monotube kit installed last week and WOW!!! What an upgrade over the oem springs. The biggest difference, or should I say improvement is no more front brake dive. It gives you way more control and stability when coming to a sudden stop and you find yourself using your front brake a lot more than you use to. Bumps don't even feel them, way smoother and not as harsh as stock. I made the 1" lower adjustment, which allows more weight distributed to the front wheel , much better high speed cornering and set the adjustment to stiff.
With the new rear 944's adjusted 1 turn, neck bearing adjusted back to spec, swing arm bushing replaced and two new tires.......At 45,000 miles I just got a new bike..let'z ride

Badger Mike · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2013, 10:53:10 AM »

Has anyone used this to solve front end wobbling?

petewerner · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2013, 12:00:45 PM »

Quote from: knothead on January 06, 2013, 08:19:51 PM

I had the Progressive Monotube kit installed last week and WOW!!! What an upgrade over the oem springs. The biggest difference, or should I say improvement is no more front brake dive. It gives you way more control and stability when coming to a sudden stop and you find yourself using your front brake a lot more than you use to. Bumps don't even feel them, way smoother and not as harsh as stock. I made the 1" lower adjustment, which allows more weight distributed to the front wheel , much better high speed cornering and set the adjustment to stiff.
With the new rear 944's adjusted 1 turn, neck bearing adjusted back to spec, swing arm bushing replaced and two new tires.......At 45,000 miles I just got a new bike..let'z ride

I just did the 944's as well and the Progressive Cartridges are next. I am hoping my results are similar 2 yours. I put a 21" on the front so I will drop mine the 1" as well to get it back close to where bike was designed as to ride higth.

dayne66 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2013, 12:37:53 PM »

Finally gonna order them up....anyone confirm the part # to keep stock height on my '12 SG.

These are the #'s at Heritage Cycle Works : OEM part number 31-2500

0414-0370

198898

http://www.heritagecycleworks.com/Product_View.cfm?int_ProductID=4752&ID=0&SubMenu=0

Not a bad price @ $310cdn with shipping included.

Author Topic: Monotubes vs HD Premium Fork kit (Read 8282 times)