Topic: US Modell - German Modell (Read 6553 times)

d o g o l s · « **on:** November 28, 2006, 04:12:24 PM »

whats the different

i change the exaust and the Airfilter Backplate from german to US

must i change software and where i get that

Unbalanced · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2006, 05:16:06 PM »

Dogols,

There are no per se downloads for you.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2006, 07:47:35 PM »

Quote

Dogols,

There are no per se downloads for you.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2006, 11:34:29 PM »

Dawg,

Electrical System and more ----> elektrisches System und mehr

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2006, 06:09:36 AM »

Quote

Dawg,

Electrical System and more ---->[highlight] elektrisches System und mehr[/highlight]

Harry I need the CD learning Greman the easy way!!!!!

Thanks

Be Safe

THE DAWG

d o g o l s · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2006, 06:31:52 AM »

tanks for answer

bisounours · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2006, 09:08:37 AM »

Quote

whats the different

i change the exaust and the Airfilter Backplate from german to US

must i change software and where i get that

Hello Dogols,

You have some explanations on this topic : http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1162031943
concerning the differences between Us and european models.
You have received one of the first Jester in Europe, nice ! [smiley=drink.gif]
But nobody (in Europe) is really experimented for the upgrade on the CVO 2007.
We know that it's necessary to change the stock A/C for a big sucker or other, to change the exhausts SE , V&H or Rinehart but what is the Map ? :-/

Only the dealer is able to define the right MAP. However, with what I read here, it's probably the #84 ( look this topic : http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1163938961 )
Other point, I know not who is able to adjust this MAP on a Dyno.
Probably, we must have this MAP without modifications or to use an other system (PCIII, Zipper, ....). [smiley=confused5.gif]
I'll receive my Jester in April 2007 and I bought a true duals and Oval slip-ons V&H. I look for an Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C.

If you have more informations your research, please, inform me.

Best regards
Jacques

grc · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:05:56 PM »

Quote

Dogols,

There are no per se downloads for you.

grc · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2006, 10:06:20 PM »

bisounours · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:14:20 AM »

Quote

I believe one of the differences is the "Active Intake and Exhaust" - not sure what is required to eliminate them as far as wiring, ECM, etc. is concerned.

Jerry

It's the question. How to modify (to dismount for replace by true duals and big sucker back plate for example) the active intake and exhaust ?

If we look the active exhaust, we have a valve in the exhaust that it's moved by a cable. We have not electrical signal go back to the ECM from the valve. Perhaps we have an information from the electrical motor for the cable but not sure. I think that it's possible to disconnect the cable from the valve for to dismount the valve or to change the exhaust.
Concerning the active intake, it's different because the electrical motor is directly on the flap in the air cleaner. I'm not sur that it send back an information to the ECM.
The certitude is the ECM send the orders to the electrical motors for the right position.

What is the opinion of the specialits ?

Thanks for your answers.
Jacques

d o g o l s · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2006, 10:15:52 AM »

thanks for all information

arcticdude · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2006, 01:15:06 PM »

Jacques,
Since there is not an exhaust valve sensor other than the cable motor itself, than don't worry about the ecm input there. As long as you leave the motor intact and attached electrically, the ecm won't know any different if you have true duals. You just don't have the cable and the valve in the exhaust. As long as you stay with parts that maps have already been designed for, you should be able to do fine! I'm not sure yet about the intake solenoid. I'll have to study the wiring manual some. If it's only a 2 wire connection to the solenoid, you may be able to simply disconnect it, as it probably opens only under predetermined conditions that the ecm sees from other sensors and it's potentially either open or closed with no in between. If it's a 3 wire connection, than it may be a sensor itself and thus should throw a code if disconnected. The question then is will the system operate properly even though that code has been caused?

Don't know yet.

arcticdude

d o g o l s · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2006, 03:31:00 PM »

on pic you only see a 2 wire connection to the solenoid

bisounours · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2006, 04:17:18 AM »

Thanks for your opinion, Arctitude,

Concerning the exhaust, I put a true dual and the electrical motor and his wiring stay on the bike and it's ride, I think. :-?
I agree with Dogols, we have only two wiring on the solenoid. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
It's means that we have only a simple connection without return to the ECM. It must be possible to disconnect the connection and to change the backplate without consequence. :-/
Sure with a true dual and exhausts (same Oval slip-ons) and a big sucker, we need to change the MAP.
Information : The active system operate till 3500 rpm for the noise and the emission regulation.
Between 0 to 3500 rpm, the opening is progressive and depends of the throttle.
More 3500 rpm, it's all opened and we have a similar HD sound

? (say the dealers..) :-?

Best regards
Jacques

d o g o l s · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:14:27 AM »

[highlight]Dealer told me the operation system wold work between 50 and 80 kmh il thing at works maybe with a signal from the spedo[/highlight]

HDMonsterTorque · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2006, 02:01:12 PM »

If the exhaust valve or inlet valve is disconnected, you will get a DTC error.
There are two ways to get rid of the DTC:
1) Keep the exhaust valve cable connected to the motor but take the wire from the valve and open the valve manually. Use a resistor instead of the valve for the inlet valve
2) Use resistors instead of both valves.

The best wau to have a good map is by using Racetuner or DirectLink.
www.tpp-europe.com/software.html

bisounours · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:19:59 PM »

I agree with your remarks concerning the DTC error.

It means that it's necessary to measure the internal resistor of each electrical motor and to close the unplugged wiring with the equivalent resistor.
It's not very difficult.

Concerning DirectLink, it's the Hyperlink for the European distributor ( You, is'nt it ?) [smiley=confused5.gif]
And the price is 795 + 268 in Euros ! = 1063 euros without taxes !!!! and 928 $US in the States (California CycleWorks).
I've seen this product on the american sites, It seems very adaptative but the price....

One SERT is approximatly 400 $US, it's less expensive. 8-)

Wait and see the other advises before to decide. :-/

Best regards
Jacques

d o g o l s · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2006, 04:29:22 AM »

Quote

I agree with your remarks concerning the DTC error.
It means that it's necessary to measure the internal resistor of each electrical motor and to close the unplugged wiring with the equivalent resistor.
It's not very difficult.

Concerning DirectLink, it's the Hyperlink for the European distributor ( You, is'nt it ?) [smiley=confused5.gif]
And the price is 795 + 268 in Euros ! =

HDMonsterTorque · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2006, 04:46:41 AM »

Bisounours,
You are right, just for one bike DL is expensive. But it is more a dealer software (or for a group of riders with technical experience).
BTW Racetuner is costing between 700 and 800 euro's over here. Due to taxes, freight etc etc. That means DL becomes cheaper already when remapping two bikes. That's why we are now promoting it to dealers.
HD doesn't give very much backup for the racetuner, we can do better.

bisounours · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2006, 05:22:16 AM »

Quote

Bisounours,
You are right, just for one bike DL is expensive. But it is more a dealer software (or for a group of riders with technical experience).
BTW Racetuner is costing between 700 and 800 euro's over here. Due to taxes, freight etc etc. That means DL becomes cheaper already when remapping two bikes. That's why we are now promoting it to dealers.
HD doesn't give very much backup for the racetuner, we can do better.

Your remark is right, but I buy in the States by internet and I ask the sending by USPS.
Today, the taxes are never asked. It's not same with UPS or DHL : With these compagnies, they ask each time the payement of the taxes.
It means that I buy with the US price, with an interresting exchange rate and without taxes. Result : half european prices, shipping include.

bisounours · « **Reply #20 on:** December 03, 2006, 05:30:35 AM »

Quote

[highlight]It's very difficult to make changes on a 2007 and everithings verry expensive
it was a nice and easy time with evos[/highlight]

Sure, it was another time where it was more easy to adjust oneself.

But it's the evolution of our society, less noise, less emisssions and less liberty...
Now we pay. Ride is a little part of freedom but with many rules.
With our new bikes we make a little resistance but for how long ? [smiley=confused5.gif]
Perhaps, it's time to go back in the right way... [smiley=oops.gif]

Best regards
Jacques

HDMonsterTorque · « **Reply #21 on:** December 03, 2006, 06:55:11 AM »

Jacques,
As a company we can not take the chance of a lost shipment by USPS. Too much money involved in one shipment. Another thing: it can take up to 45-60 days to get things by usps, if the local customs keep it in house for a long time. We experienced this a few times. Therefor we only use UPS, DHL or EMS.
Also we try to charge US prices + freight. We know a lot of people will otherwise buy via the internet.
The USD-Euro conversion is another 'problem'. Dealers don't like it that prices go up and down. So we need to have fixed prices for some time. At the moment we for example compensate this to give free extensive instructions to the dealer on our own dyno.

Dogols, sorry to hijack your post.

d o g o l s · « **Reply #22 on:** December 03, 2006, 07:29:41 AM »

[highlight]Dogols, sorry to hijack your post.[/highlight]

no problem

d o g o l s · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2006, 10:48:16 AM »

Quote

[highlight]Dogols, sorry to hijack your post.[/highlight]

no problem

Eqcons · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2006, 02:48:10 PM »

Quote

whats the different

i change the exaust and the Airfilter Backplate from german to US

must i change software and where i get that

The easy way that I intend to use is to use an SE filter, True Duals, and replace the ECU with the Thundermax + O

bisounours · « **Reply #25 on:** December 16, 2006, 04:24:25 PM »

Eqcons,

It seems to be one right way but how you manage the active intake and exhaust ? [smiley=confused5.gif]
If we disconnect the soleno

bisounours · « **Reply #26 on:** December 16, 2006, 04:40:22 PM »

Eqcons,

[highlight]If the exhaust valve or inlet valve is disconnected, you will get a DTC error.
There are two ways to get rid of the DTC:
1) Keep the exhaust valve cable connected to the motor but take the wire from the valve and open the valve manually. Use a resistor instead of the valve for the inlet valve
2) Use resistors instead of both valves. [/highlight] (HDMonsterTorque)

We need eliminators (based on resistors) for the valves.
We will wait the building of these by ThunderMax same than the O2 kit.

Regards
Jacques

Hoist! · « **Reply #27 on:** December 16, 2006, 05:04:28 PM »

Quote

Eqcons,

[highlight]If the exhaust valve or inlet valve is disconnected, you will get a DTC error.
There are two ways to get rid of the DTC:
1) Keep the exhaust valve cable connected to the motor but take the wire from the valve and open the valve manually. Use a resistor instead of the valve for the inlet valve
2) Use resistors instead of both valves. [/highlight] (HDMonsterTorque)

We need eliminators (based on resistors) for the valves.
We will wait the building of these by ThunderMax same than the O2 kit.

Regards
Jacques

B. You seem to be closer to answers. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] If you think the PCIII will work better (warranty), let me know if you need me to check anything here for you. Hoist!

luka · « **Reply #28 on:** December 17, 2006, 12:16:31 PM »

as far as i know HDI-bikes have all (also no CVO) catalyst mufflers and a active intake/exhaust system controled by the ecm. If you upload a SE race tuner map to the ecm of a HDI-bike the active intake/exhaust stops working. I will try the DTT TCFI2D. Not even cheap but a good system using wide band O2-sensors which keep the AFR exact where the bike needs it (maybe a little bit richer

) I try to use the units programmable user output to control the active exhaust system.

Best regards from Germany
luka

BalDeagle · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2006, 02:22:10 PM »

Quote

as far as i know HDI-bikes have all (also no CVO) catalyst mufflers and a active intake/exhaust system controled by the ecm. [highlight]If you upload a SE race tuner map to the ecm of a HDI-bike the active intake/exhaust stops working.[/highlight] I will try the DTT TCFI2D. Not even cheap but a good system using wide band O2-sensors which keep the AFR exact where the bike needs it (maybe a little bit richer ) I try to use the units programmable user output to control the active exhaust system.

Best regards from Germany
luka

Hi Luka - is this piece of information definitely correct. It seems weird that the MoCo would bring out their own race tuner that didn't allow the active intake/exhaust to keep working.

If it is then I think I need a re-think and I don't really want to think about that !

Nige

bisounours · « **Reply #30 on:** December 17, 2006, 02:46:30 PM »

Quote

as far as i know HDI-bikes have all (also no CVO) catalyst mufflers and a active intake/exhaust system controled by the ecm. [highlight]If you upload a SE race tuner map to the ecm of a HDI-bike the active intake/exhaust stops working. [/highlight]I will try the DTT TCFI2D. Not even cheap but a good system using wide band O2-sensors which keep the AFR exact where the bike needs it (maybe a little bit richer ) I try to use the units programmable user output to control the active exhaust system.

Best regards from Germany
luka

Hello Luka,

Are you sure about this information ?
It seems too easy. :-?
I change my stock exhausts for a set of true duals (without the active valve but with the O2 sensors) and Ovals, I change my stock A/C for a Big sucker (I disconnect the wiring of the active intake) and I download the SE Map (probably the #84) and it run right !!!!!

Same Nige, I'm surprise but perhaps ...... [smiley=confused5.gif]
I'm not a specialist and I read all concerning this subject because I interrested by the solution.

Regards
Jacques

BalDeagle · « **Reply #31 on:** December 17, 2006, 03:07:48 PM »

Quote

Hello Luka,

Are you sure about this information ?
It seems too easy.

luka · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2006, 07:24:21 AM »

Hello Jacques, hello Nige,

of course the SE map is working on a HDI-bike, ONLY the function of the active intake/exhaust will not be available. I have this information from a other forum. A guy from Austria, "Viennahog" gave me this information. He put a SE-map from the newest racetuner on his bike and the active system stops working. It seems the stock-HDI maps are special maps including the active function. So if you don

BalDeagle · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2006, 08:48:20 AM »

Quote

Hello Jacques, hello Nige,

of course the SE map is working on a HDI-bike, ONLY the function of the active intake/exhaust will not be available. I have this information from a other forum. A guy from Austria, "Viennahog" gave me this information. He put a SE-map from the newest racetuner on his bike and the active system stops working. It seems the stock-HDI maps are special maps including the active function. So if you don

bisounours · « **Reply #34 on:** December 18, 2006, 09:58:52 AM »

Hi Luke !

It seems an interesting way ! Thanks !

It's necessary to download the SE Map in the ECM throught the SERT.

Very interesting way for those they wish to drop only the exhaust and stay in the the law if it's necessary. In this case, you need Daytona TwinTec unit to drop with or without flaps.

Also interesting for me, with my changement :
- set of true duals with O2 and Ovals (without flap)
- Arlen Ness Big sucker Stage I (without flap)
I need only a SERT and the right MAP. 8-)
In France, we have still a tolerance of the police for HD and I think with Ovals it'll be not too noisy.

Remark in support of the action of the SE Map :
I have downloaded the SERT Software http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1165256516;start=all and in the documentation it's mentionned the DTC errors without code for the active Intake and exhausts. Probably, it confirms that our flaps are not managed in all MAP but only in the stock HDI Map. The SE map is not specific for Europe and it's probably the reason of the desactivation of "Little European Flappers".

This new situation is very pleasant ! Is'nt it ? [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Who have a new Donkey for our friend Nige ? He dreams with his diabolik SERK since one hour !!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Best regards
Jacques

BalDeagle · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2006, 11:10:14 AM »

hi Jacques - it certainly sounds like those of us who are going to change the full exhaust system are going to be OK with the SERT's lack of ability to play withour little Flappers, but as Hoist says will the ECM still be looking for them even though the SERT remap does not allow them to work ??

I'm not too sure what you mean about the Donkey and the diabolik SERK since one hour - I think something has been lost in the translation ! [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Still funny though.

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

Nige

Eqcons · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2007, 09:21:45 AM »

Quote

Eqcons,

It seems to be one right way but how you manage the active intake and exhaust ? [smiley=confused5.gif]
If we disconnect the soleno

bisounours · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2007, 10:36:27 AM »

Eqcons,
Happy to read you again for this new year !

You confirm a good news for us.

I knew not that the Thundermax is an ECU replacement.
I resume my way :
I put dressers duals and oval slips-on V&H, an A/C big sucker or SE and Thundermax (PCIII USB #812-511) + O2 kit (Oxygen sensor eleminator kit) and the right Map and it's run fine !
Do you agree with that ?

What is the choice for your bike? Is it installed?
if yes, what is your #Map ?
Is it yourself mounted the Thundemax or your Dealer?
Do you made a specific tuning on the Map?

About the A/C, 2 questions :

1) Yesterday, I talked with my dealer and I ask him what is the reference for the SE A/C.
Answer : I know not because the european model had a specific sensor for Air!!! And we need a specific backplate for to mount this sensor !!!!
Eqcons, if you have changed your A/C, do you need a specific backplate or no ?

2) Concerning the A/C, what is the reference for Big sucker or SE ?

Thanks for all,
Regards
Jacques

Eqcons · « **Reply #38 on:** January 13, 2007, 11:40:23 AM »

Hi Jacques!

I knew not that the Thundermax is an ECU replacement.
I resume my way :
I put dressers duals and oval slips-on V&H, an A/C big sucker or SE and Thundermax (PCIII USB #812-511) + O2 kit (Oxygen sensor eleminator kit) and the right Map and it's run fine !
Do you agree with that ?

Nearly, but the PC-III is not required! The Thundermax does it all....

However, for the 110" engine which has the compression lifters, Zippers have not yet (as far as I know) got the add-on module to deal with them completed. (Check out the Zippers section on here!).

What is the choice for your bike? Is it installed?
if yes, what is your #Map ?
Is it yourself mounted the Thundemax or your Dealer?
Do you made a specific tuning on the Map?

I'll be going with V&H True Dual headers, SE Mufflers, and the roll-your-own SE air cleaner. This with the Thundermax ECU and O

bisounours · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2007, 12:10:47 PM »

Thanks Jim.

It's a little bit more clear for me.

When you speak about the O

Eqcons · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:39:43 AM »

Hi Jacques

It's a little bit more clear for me.

Good!

When you speak about the O

Claude · « **Reply #41 on:** January 14, 2007, 03:37:51 PM »

Hello European CVO Bikers,

As I will get my Jester mid of march (date of production 9. february), I am ordering some parts that I will immediately mount on.

In Switzerland, the policemen are used to control the numbers engraved on the exhaust. As soon as they can't read the original numbers, you have to pay a fee and if, added to that, you make more noise than what is written in the certificate, you pay for each added dB. It can make several thousand dollars (swiss francs! of course).

This is because I will not change the exhaust (I also was used to listen a lot of music on my previous bike and will continue, even if that mean I will lose some ponies). I just will block the "flap" in the open position (a small screw in the macanism will do the trick); eventually, I will replace the left exhaust with a right one, since it has a bigger output.

I also will install an air filter Kuryakyn Twin Velocity Plus.

For those mods, the SERT map #84 should go. It should not generate any trouble code due to lack of "flaps" as it normaly should not know their existance.

Voil

Author Topic: US Modell - German Modell (Read 6553 times)

Claude