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[ematicic]

I am just hanging something else here that I had posted on another forum incase it helps anyone. I know the overheating has been an issue so please add anything else you guys have done. Always up for other opinions and tips. Also feel free to critique the measurement process and add anything that helps to quantify actual temperatures and changes.

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Greeting Forum friends!

The only big problem I have had with my breakout is the overheating. I tried a tune and pipes but it really made a minute difference. Regardless of ambient temperature, if I get stuck in traffic for 30 minutes, it heats up and shut off. I am doing my best to quantify the results for others having a similar problem. Feel free to critique my measurements.

I did not get any real data from before the tune and pipes. When I got the tune and pipes, I also got the LCD dipstick. After about 1 hour riding and stopping at a light, my dipstick temps were about 165 and would quickly rise to 180-185 in about 5 minutes. Around 200 it would start wanting to shut off and the ETMS was already kicking in prior to the traffic jam.

I just got the premium oil cooler and JIMS Parade fan. The oil cooler I ordered from Harley and the fan from Amazon ($80 cheaper than nearest competitor)
Amazon.com: Jims Polished Forceflow Cylinder Head Cooler for Harley Davidson 1999-2013 Twin: Automotive
 Amazon.com: Jims Polished Forceflow Cylinder Head Cooler for Harley Davidson 1999-2013 Twin: Automotive
I rode home in very light traffic, about an hour. I noticed the ETMS was not on when I got home. Ambient temp was about 70deg and the dipstick after the ride was down to about 230deg. At this point, I wanted to see how it would be in traffic so I let it sit with the fan on for 20 minutes then took some readings with my fairly decent multimeter with temp.

Here is where I took the reading from, this is where there will probably be some critique because I am not sure if these are the best places for temperature readings:

I measured at the read head. I just touched the sensor to the top of the rear head.

I measured the cylinder. Basically I shoved the sensor between the deep hole between the push rods.

So one hour ride, 20 minutes sitting with the fan on everything seemed to be about 1 deg a minute still but at 20 minutes I had:
Dipstick - 265
Head - 250
Cylinder - 310

Even after 20 minutes the ETMS was not kicking in but probably would have at 25 minutes.

NOW, I turn the fan off and wait 3 minutes:
The ETMS kicked on at 1 minute
Dipstick - 280
Head - 278
Cylinder - 335

For those of you just starting research into this, the oil cooler only really help while you are driving because your pump cycles oil and the passing air cools the oil through the fins. It did do its part because the temps were about 30 degrees cooler when initially stopping.

The fan comes into play when stopped and it blows air between the front and rear cylinders and that also proved very effective and should make this bike usable for commuting.

Overall I highly recommend the fan, I will get pictures of it installed if anyone gets this far and wants them. The only sucky thing is the crap horn that is imbed in the fan to replace the OEM one.
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[JohnCA58]

So what tuner are you using and who did the tune,  can you post a full dyno sheet ?

[ematicic]

I use the HD SERT. I never had it on a Dyno. The tuned it at Waugh HD in Orange Va. using a basic map for the pipes I had, then tuned a bit richer so the heads are cooled by more fuel. I get more pops on decel but can minimize that with throttle control.

[fastfreddy]

Spend the money on the tune or your never gona win, if your trying to collect data you need to start with a dyno run  ... Your just wasting time & money

[Dr.D]

For comparison purposes, have you ever run another HD under the same summer with traffic road conditions? Stuck in traffic with the motor running is a long time for an air cooled bike and I am wondering if any bike would over heat. You may indeed want to have it retuned on the dyno. It could cost you a lot more money if the thing melts down.

[ematicic]

Exactly what data or tweaks from the dyno would be more effective than the oil cooler and parade fan? Also, I don't have the software for the SERT, is that something I could use in my garage for diagnostics?

Dr.D, my previous bike was a 97 Heritage. I never took any readings in the same conditions but the heat radiating off that 80EVO was nothing compared to the 110.

I admit ignorance on the technical details but there are too many posts about overheating with no real quantified information. I want this bike to last a long time so keep the information flowing.

[CVO2FIXUP]

  That 335 head temp is very high. Have to start worrying about valve guide movement at that temp.  Ask the dyno tuner to make you a traffic map. LOL.     

   I have a ultra cool oil cooler with 2 fans built in, a Baker + 1 oil pan, ( the bike now takes 5 liters of oil instead of 3.5 with the stock pan )  Full exhaust system, ( no cat ) and it was dyno shtined.  I have a power vision with the display mounted to the tank and my head temp creeps up to about 285 on a hot day in heavy traffic. Never seen it above that though. The fans on the Ultra Cool come on at 220. Using M-Zoil.  Good luck.

[HD Street Performance]

That 335 head temp is very high. Have to start worrying about valve guide movement at that temp.  Ask the dyno tuner to make you a traffic map. LOL.     

Well sort of, the guides will hold but the seats may loosen. Not the intake.
What was observed was a localized reading. The casting is not that temperature everywhere. Not saying that is a great way to run the motor for sure. I am working schemes to cool mine down but that will happen when the cam comes out and it is retuned. I will use the stock cooler and Wards fans for traffic.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

At 350 the seats can start to migrate..........tested that years ago.

[HD Street Performance]

Scott
That's not a hard number. Press fit varies as does the local temperature VS the casting where the reading was taken with a quite inaccurate device, a heat gun, I might add. Even the factory sensor is just reading a local place in the head and the seats will not be the same in a running motor.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

What pipe are you running? A few of the 2-1 pipes  have less than 1 inch clearance from rear pipe to oil bag. This will jack the oil temps extremely fast .  We just delt with this as the customer swapped from a staggered pipe to a 2-1 and it was super heating the oil. I can not get my finger between the pipe and the oil bag.    n

[JKM]

first things first...spend the money and get a proper dyno tune by a reputable tuner.  a caned map is just that and not customized for your bike.

[INDEPENDENT_1]

first things first...spend the money and get a proper dyno tune by a reputable tuner.  a caned map is just that and not customized for your bike.

Unfortunately, still way too many people out there that are uninformed of how beneficial a good tune is and that canned maps from even the top known companies in the business are not ample in providing a true "tune" and these auto tune units, have even strategically named that but are far from providing best optimization of operation. They may get you in a safe operating zone but from my experience, they are highly overstated and misunderstood die to the term auto tune being thrown around so much. A strain gauge on a dyno doesn't low if calobrated right and CO reading used to measure how rich or lean an engine is is not skewed by reversion, which nearly every engine has at some point. Even a completely stock bike is worth the cost of a full dyno tune so long as the dyno operator knows what he's doing. But that is only one part of getting a good tune. The other part is the operator actually spending the time it requires to make the bike run it's best (max power on a anything at 60% to get around 40 mpg to 42mpg give or take while cruising at normal cruising speeds to avoid hot highway cruising temps). Getting both of those and the the timing optimal are the best money spent on an air cooled motors IMO, even if you intend to keep it stock. Heat is the enemy of electronics, air cooled engines, oil and the riders of the bike. I'll never understand paying the price some do for these bikes and not having them tuned to relieve them of the EPA compliant recipe for heat. I'd rather buy a cheaper bike and be able to afford a great tune than buy a higher priced bike that has a crappy tune in it. Much more enjoyable to ride that way IMO. 

[Unbalanced]

What pipe are you running? A few of the 2-1 pipes  have less than 1 inch clearance from rear pipe to oil bag. This will jack the oil temps extremely fast .  We just delt with this as the customer swapped from a staggered pipe to a 2-1 and it was super heating the oil. I can not get my finger between the pipe and the oil bag.    n

Steve,

TMI

You that pipe and your finger ....           

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Scott
That's not a hard number. Press fit varies as does the local temperature VS the casting where the reading was taken with a quite inaccurate device, a heat gun, I might add. Even the factory sensor is just reading a local place in the head and the seats will not be the same in a running motor.

Oven, laser heat gun, and thermometer, 2 seperate sets.
Seats started moving.
Test here was performed for Sumax regarding their powder processes....
THAT, was THE, dedicated number where they moved, and yes an engine sensor would not be a solid reliable source to relay that evidence........
Oven was set at 350, thermometer said just about 350, and the laser heat gun said 350, guess it must've been another number?................ walks like a duck, looks like a duck?........now it's a sea-gull?
I understand............