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[Eqcons]

Thanks TMO for the words.

[tmo465]

Hogfn....

Probably I would check into the labor cost for the gearset vs the total gear box swap.  If the total cost of parts and labor are nearly the same, I'd go with the total swap and sell the 5 speed to re-coup some cash. There doesnt appear to be a real solid market for the 5 speed gearset from what I can see on e-Bay.  The labor cost for my swap was $337.00 total and the hourly rate at the shop here is 67.50 an hour. personally,,,like I said before, I didnt like the idea of someone grinding away on the gear case, and once they do that, you cannot go back and re-install the 5 speed gears.   With the total swap, should you wish, you can swap out the box and keep the 6 speed for your new bike.  (if it will fit a newer bike that is)

Grab which ever one you choose for at least 20% off at one of the dealers often mentioned, and go from there.

The new box from the factory comes complete, even new hoses and pulley, however i did have to spend an extra 300 bucks for the end cap as mine had the hydraluic clutch.

Good luck on whichever way you go,,,,you will be pleased I am sure.

Tom

[grc]

Per the H-D time standards, replacing a complete trans is 4.9 hours labor, and overhauling a trans with the case in the frame is 4.6 hours labor.  Of course, your dealer may or may not use these times, since they are what Harley pays for warranty work.  Dealers are free to use any time standard they want on customer pay items.

Jerry

[CVOJOE]

Haven't seen any mention in the thread, but installing a Baker trans. does have an impact on MOCO warranty I would think, unless they have an agreement with H-D. Simplest and less expensive thing seems to be use the H-D 6-speed gear kit and not split the cases with the full tranny swap. I think I was charged about 5 hours labor and they did the auto primary chain tensioner for nothing. Need to get some miles on the 6-speed to really see the change, but that's just around the bend.

[Big Al]

I am a little late on this thread but as a DD6 customer I fully resaerched the Baker site.  From the Baker 2006 catalog, page 17.  Here is a quote, but there is also a neat picture that compares an OD to a DD 6 speed and explains the loss.

Highlight OD6 costs 8%, DD6 costs 1% torque. :-?


"Back in 1996, we started work on the now legendary BAKER 6-speed
Overdrive (OD6). We morphed the factory

[UK Dave]

Hmmm - so is there no "Torque penalty" for the change in primary drive gearing?

So does this mean the whole transmission is running 16% faster thru the gears? (for any given engine speed)

Is this a good thing?

What about acceleration? Surely this will suffer? or am I missing something vital here?

Please keep any explanations simple - I am a simple kinda guy

Cheers

Dave

[UK Dave]

Thanks for the explanation [highlight]Big Al[/highlight] [smiley=oops.gif] - I think I've just about got that.

I certainly understand the benefit of direct drive without all the intermediate stages as far as reducing power loss is concerned

BTW we seem to be interchanging Torque and Power here - I don't think we should?

Your piece about Mechanical Advantage I understand - also from school/college in '65

I would have thought you would lose torque if you have mechanical disadvantage and gain it if you have advantage ie 1:1 or better

Think of a simple bicycle with a large front sprocket and a small rear one - you cannot lift the front wheel by pressing hard on the pedals - not that I condone these antics but you know what I mean.

Now using a mountain bike as an example you change to a smaller front cog and a larger rear one and you can lift the front wheel easy this is mechanical advantage (I think) - it's easier to turn the pedals (from a standing start) and it's torque that makes the front wheel come up (or the back wheel spin)

But what about the acceleration question?

I just re-read your post and the one from Big Al

If the primary ratio is changed to make the 1:1 of the Baker have the effect of the .94:1 OD box then surely the intermediate gear ratios...

Ah - Ha the penny just dropped (clunk) - I think?

In the Baker box all the ratios are lowered by 16% (or the same factor that the Primary is increased) thus the overall effect at the back wheel is to have gears 1 through 5 as per stock but 6th behaves like an overdrive (as far as the engine is concerned ie it's turning less for a given road speed) although 6th is actually a 1:1

That's what I was missing - the ratios of all the gears in the box being changed not just 6th (obvoius really otherwise you'd have 5th and 6th both 1:1)

Also I was maybe thinking 1st stayed where it was and 6th got added in at 1:1 and 2 through 5 were equally spaced - giving a "close ratio" box as per bikes with a narrow powerband (racers)

All cleared up for me now - but I will not be explaining this again to myself or anyone else - my brain hurts...

Cheers

Dave

[Big Al]

Dave

My head also hurts...I believe you're right, the mechanical DISadvantage of the 0.94:1 costs torque (I think)

My 6-speed history is with an early CCI OD6 in my FLHTCuI 99 sidehack rig- 75mph on 101N near Soledad....mmmmmm....click....clunk.....screech as the rear wheel locked solid...all in about 2 seconds.

[Big Al]

Hmmm - so is there no "Torque penalty" for the change in primary drive gearing?

So does this mean the whole transmission is running 16% faster thru the gears? (for any given engine speed)

Is this a good thing?

What about acceleration? Surely this will suffer? or am I missing something vital here?

Please keep any explanations simple - I am a simple kinda guy

Cheers

Dave

I lurked for a while hoping someone else would jump in... :-? but no one did so here is my take on this. (This is my recollection from a mechanical engineering required credit 40 years ago ( ))

First, for a full description of the drive line and gearing/ratios you need to visit the Baker site. It explains in gory detail the 3 subsystems involved in getting RPM's to rear wheel turning.- Primary drive, Gearbox and Final Drive.

http://http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/dialup/techinfoImages/rpmCalc.html

In the primary drive you have a smaller number of teeth driving a bigger number of teeth, that ratio of teeth (output teeth/input teeth) gives a ratio > than 1, so a mechanical advantage and speed (RPM) reduction; through the normal gearbox you have a number of ratios (eg- 3.53:1 for 1st gear, 2.8:1 for second, 2.1:1 for 3rd, 1.7:1 for 4th and 1:1 for 5th); for the final drive you have the final drive pulley (I think mine is 33 teeth) and the pulley on the wheel (i forget how many- 70?).

[napalm]

I had a HD 6-Speed installed on my 2003 Road King Classic as well as a 103 Stroker Kit.  The 6-Speed along with the 103 Engine...I have to be going at least 70 MPH to be comfortable in sixth gear....any speed below that the engine seems to be lugging.  Had no problems with it, I had the kit installed, not the entire tranny.  Do not know if they have changed gear rations since my insallation.

I just got a 2006 Screaming Eagle Ultra Classic about six weeks ago and will keep it a 5-Speed.

[SPIDERMAN]

After reading this thread, especially this last page, all I can say is WOW. You guys sure do your homework. I have a Baker-6 in my 03 SERK and did not know exactly what was what. I did notice I had enough torque in 6th gear that I rarely had to downshift, only on the steepest climbs when I got slowed down enough that I would have dropped into 4th with a 5 speed. I also was thinking it had not benefited me in gas mileage increase. These posts confirm that. What I did think, and I guess I was wrong, was that the motor was operating at lower RPM's in 6th at 75 mph than the stock 5 speed. The bike just feels smoother at that speed than the one I had with a 5 speed in it. What's the deal ? Am I turning the same RPM's in 6th as I would be in 5th with the stock trans? Also, from what you're saying, my primary gearing had to have been changed when the Baker was installed. Is that correct ? The previous owner is the guy who commented that people on this site can't spell. I don't talk to him much. You can probably see why.

[grc]

...........................BTW- Baker DD6 was installed in 06 FLHTCUSE by my dealer at 1000 mile service.

[Big Al]

Clearly the part of

[SPIDERMAN]

I hear you there dude. My Baker 6 main bearings went south at about 26K  No warranty since I'm not the original owner. Had it been an H-D 6, it would have been covered under my used vehicle ESP from H-D as was the whole shootin match involving the cam chain assembly.  Lesson learned, buy the H-D, ride it for 7 years worry free of repair bills.

[HUBBARD]

Warranty is defined as workmanship, (applied and performed during assembly), and material, (used in the assembly of one or more operable components, in any given manufacturing process).  Warranty is not applicable where signs of abuse, neglect, crash, or normal wear and tear are evident.  The Warranty applies to the first end-user, only, unless proper documentation extends its validity to the subsequent Owner, or Owners.  Any altered odometers, or conflicting in service dates, without the proper documentation from the Manufacturer, will result in the immediate termination of the Warranty, and could result in Felony Prosecution.  While this may not be verbatim, it is what it says.  So, basically, if it's worn out, jerked out, run dry of oil, altered, or has scars from a crash, it ain't Warranty.  Any help you would receive, in this case, woud be Policy, or Good Will.  Hub ain't experienced any Warranty, but has received Good Will Policy, many times.  And, was not due it, either.  If my chit breaks, I broke it!  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD