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Author Topic: Yikes ! Suspension is awful  (Read 3960 times)

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fgizzo

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Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« on: May 23, 2009, 10:45:21 PM »

I could use some shock and front end suggestions to get my 2004 SEEG a lot more comfortable. I have the stock setup and took a 200 mile ride with my wife (130lbs) + me (200lbs)  today on some pretty bumpy roads and it was a very unpleasant experience to say the least. I had the rear shocks at 20lbs. The front forks have fresh oil from Harley when I had the 10,000 mile service done a month or so ago. I have seen many brands of rear shocks on the market, but  I am looking for some words of wisdom from the CVO users. Are there any major improvements out there that anybody could recommend from experience?

Also I still have not decided on an exhaust. Had the Rinehart slipons - sold those since they were too loud and raspy. Put my screamin eagle 65115-98b's back on, these are great at idle but have a rather high pitch at cruising which seem to get annoying after a while. I think I will try the Kuryakyn Crushers next or the Monster Ovals. Also Kuryakyn has a new muffler called Beast Ovals - pricey around $700 - anybody heard these yet?

I hope I find a sound I like on this bike, I never had this problem on my 88 cubic inch bikes. As I mentioned before I did like the sound of the true dual Rineharts on my friends 2005 SEEG, but they are extremely loud. I would like to have the bike tuned properly but I will need to decide on an exhaust first.

Anybody extremely happy with their exhaust setup ?

Thanks
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hard10

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 10:50:34 PM »

Traxxion Dynamics AK20's for the front forks and Bitubo shocks for the rear. No other combination. It's the only way to go. You'll love it!
As for the exhaust, I have Rinehart True Duals and love the sound and performance.
Enough said.

hard10

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 10:52:33 PM »

BTW, make sure wifey doesn't see this. They never like other's knowing what they weigh. Don't ask me how I know this.  ;D

04se103

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 10:55:47 PM »

Traxxion night and day difference worth every penny of it  :2vrolijk_21:
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HogBreath

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 08:18:26 AM »

Traxxion ak20s
Bitubos
D&d2:1
 :2vrolijk_21:

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fgizzo

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 08:21:33 AM »

Looks like I will be ordering some AK20's and some Bitubo shocks.

Thanks
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efrbc1

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 09:44:21 AM »

Don't know how tall you are but I am 6' and I went back to "stock" height on my '05.  13" Progressive 440's and changed the damping rods (1" longer) with Progressive springs and Bel Ray 15 wt oil in the forks.  A major improvement over the stock ride.  Bike handles wery well and the ride is much smoother one or two up.  Just thought I would provide you with another way to go that will save some $$ over the Bitubos and Traxxion set-up.

I had the Reinhart TD on mine and went back to the stock head pipes with the 98B's.  Bike pulls better than the TD set up and I'm OK with the sound.  I do have Zippers 575 gear drive cams in which changed the sound a bit from stock.

Chris
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HogBreath

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 10:05:56 AM »

that's what I love about this site....all sort of ways to save money!! 
 
 :'(

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 10:06:07 AM »


fgizzo, while I would be the first to say the stock "Profile" air shocks suck, I believe you caused part of your own problem on that 200 mile ride.  You indicated you had 20 psi in the shocks, with a 330 lb load.  That will result in continuous and constant bottoming of the shocks.  You would be better served to run near the maximum pressure (50 psi) when riding two-up.  I personally run 20-22 psi solo (170 lbs) and 45-50 psi two-up (300 lbs).  This results in much less bottoming and wallowing.  Doesn't make the cheap shocks worth keeping, but at least it does soften the bumps a little until you decide on which aftermarket solution you want.  If money is no object, by all means let the guys steer you to Traxxion and Bitubo.  However, you can do much better than H-D without having to apply for stimulus funds or take out a mortgage for those high priced options.  Look at the various offerings from Progressive Suspension or Works Performance for shocks, and Race Tech or Ricor for fork upgrades.  If you consider that the stock suspension is about equivalent to what was available back in the 60's, I figure anything you try will have to be an improvement.

Jerry
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porthole

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 11:27:56 AM »

Do your homework and try and limit yourself to buying only one pair of shocks.

If you are going to ride two up a lot you may as well get the stock height replacements when you do it. besides the extra inch of ground clearance you have an extra inch of shock travel. That will be an improvement with whatever you go with.

Your main problem is the factory air shocks = garbage. I was ready to sell my bike (05 SEEG) until I tried the progressives.

My take (based on personal experience)

Progressive's - night and day improvement of stock, and the reason I kept the bike. For me (160 pounds) the Progressive standards were fine, including when my wife was on (and I'm not going there).
The progressives worked fine for a couple of years until all the hoopla with the Traxxion - Bitubo hype.

You will get an annoying "stop bump"  with the Progressives (as the suspension unloads going over bumps).
If you go Progressives you should seek out the recommendations for your riding weight as to the stock or heavy duty version.

Progressive preload can be adjust by popping the bag pins out and moving the bags away a bit. Hands only to adjust (at the top).

Bitubo's - expensive and have a learning curve. These shocks have three adjustments, which are sequential, ride height-preload, compression and rebound damping. Preload is first, don't remember about the other two.

Nice shocks, expensive, have to be aware of mounting position so they don't hit the bags. Adjustment requires removing the saddlebag and using a wrench (supplied, bottom of shock). Some coat the "screw" with some product which escapes me at the moment and claim that the shocks can be adjusted by hand. I am leery of any lubricant on the threads (dirt collector).

I ride from 1 up, no tourpak, empty saddlebags to 2 up, king tourpak and saddlebags packed as well as a bag on top of the tourpak and everywhere in between. So the adjustments on the Bitubo's were a pain in the butt.

Next up
Arnott air suspension with the upgraded shocks. These were nice, solved the problem with the load capacity with the infinite adjustability. Problem for me was two fold. Since I didn't install a pressure gauge I was always searching for the best ride after making a change. Pressure gauge would have given me a number to go by.
And since the majority of my riding is solo the ride quality was kind of harsh.

The minimum amount of air to keep from bottoming out gave a harsh ride. When the bike was loaded though it did seem to ride pretty good. Air shocks (at least the none 2 chamber systems) seem to work better when the rider approaches the 250 weight mark.

Last month I pulled the air shocks off, just wasn't happy with them.
Put the Progressives back on, rode for a week and pulled them. The Bitubos are now on the bike. And except for the preload changes I probably will not screw around with the other two (compression and rebound).

Traxxion front cartridges. Lot of hype here with this setup.

I think it is more of a mindset after the spending the coins that these do what they do. Granted I have seen an improvement but I don't know about a $1200-$1400 dollar improvement.
I did increase the travel to stock height, so that is a plus, the system is a better design over stock, another plus (1 cartridge versus 2) and you are rebuilding the forks with this upgrade.
Honestly though, the only improvement I can really feel is pulling into my driveway. And this may be indicative as to how the forks perform overall.

I have about a 2 inch bump into my driveway (street was never top coated with asphalt). With my old forks I used to slow down almost to a stop when hitting the driveway or it was a very harsh transition.
Now I just pull in at whatever speed I am moving at and all is fine.

Something else to consider with the higher end option here. Both the Bitubo's and the Traxxion upgrades both recommend yearly or 25000 mile overhauls.







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porthole

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 11:37:33 AM »

Exhaust options.

I decided against the Reinharts simply because "everybody had them" (they are also a little loud for me).

I went with the V&H ovals, with the true dual head pipes.

I think the ovals make a nice match with the baggers.
The true duals have several benefits, first is the "true dual", second is the opened up area around the oil fill, third is it takes the hot pipe away from your right thigh.

Overall I was pleased with the performance and sound of these pipes, not to loud, nice rumble etc. These are the older style ovals - not the "monster ovals".

I recently switched to "D&D Fat Cats 2 into 1". I was looking for the promised low end torque improvement. The finish on the Fat Cats is awesome. I Only now made this change because they are now available with a quite baffle. I wouldn't exactly call them quite but over the standard baffle they are much better.

My bike has not been tuned yet and I did cams at the same time, so I couldn't give an opinion as to any torque increase.
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Black Diamond

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 12:37:12 PM »

Do your homework and try and limit yourself to buying only one pair of shocks.

If you are going to ride two up a lot you may as well get the stock height replacements when you do it. besides the extra inch of ground clearance you have an extra inch of shock travel. That will be an improvement with whatever you go with.

Your main problem is the factory air shocks = garbage. I was ready to sell my bike (05 SEEG) until I tried the progressives.

My take (based on personal experience)

Progressive's - night and day improvement of stock, and the reason I kept the bike. For me (160 pounds) the Progressive standards were fine, including when my wife was on (and I'm not going there).
The progressives worked fine for a couple of years until all the hoopla with the Traxxion - Bitubo hype.

You will get an annoying "stop bump"  with the Progressives (as the suspension unloads going over bumps).
If you go Progressives you should seek out the recommendations for your riding weight as to the stock or heavy duty version.

Progressive preload can be adjust by popping the bag pins out and moving the bags away a bit. Hands only to adjust (at the top).

Bitubo's - expensive and have a learning curve. These shocks have three adjustments, which are sequential, ride height-preload, compression and rebound damping. Preload is first, don't remember about the other two.

Nice shocks, expensive, have to be aware of mounting position so they don't hit the bags. Adjustment requires removing the saddlebag and using a wrench (supplied, bottom of shock). Some coat the "screw" with some product which escapes me at the moment and claim that the shocks can be adjusted by hand. I am leery of any lubricant on the threads (dirt collector).

I ride from 1 up, no tourpak, empty saddlebags to 2 up, king tourpak and saddlebags packed as well as a bag on top of the tourpak and everywhere in between. So the adjustments on the Bitubo's were a pain in the butt.

Next up
Arnott air suspension with the upgraded shocks. These were nice, solved the problem with the load capacity with the infinite adjustability. Problem for me was two fold. Since I didn't install a pressure gauge I was always searching for the best ride after making a change. Pressure gauge would have given me a number to go by.
And since the majority of my riding is solo the ride quality was kind of harsh.

The minimum amount of air to keep from bottoming out gave a harsh ride. When the bike was loaded though it did seem to ride pretty good. Air shocks (at least the none 2 chamber systems) seem to work better when the rider approaches the 250 weight mark.

Last month I pulled the air shocks off, just wasn't happy with them.
Put the Progressives back on, rode for a week and pulled them. The Bitubos are now on the bike. And except for the preload changes I probably will not screw around with the other two (compression and rebound).

Traxxion front cartridges. Lot of hype here with this setup.

I think it is more of a mindset after the spending the coins that these do what they do. Granted I have seen an improvement but I don't know about a $1200-$1400 dollar improvement.
I did increase the travel to stock height, so that is a plus, the system is a better design over stock, another plus (1 cartridge versus 2) and you are rebuilding the forks with this upgrade.
Honestly though, the only improvement I can really feel is pulling into my driveway. And this may be indicative as to how the forks perform overall.


I have about a 2 inch bump into my driveway (street was never top coated with asphalt). With my old forks I used to slow down almost to a stop when hitting the driveway or it was a very harsh transition.
Now I just pull in at whatever speed I am moving at and all is fine.

Something else to consider with the higher end option here. Both the Bitubo's and the Traxxion upgrades both recommend yearly or 25000 mile overhauls.









Great advice. I made the decision to go with the Works shocks after reading a lot from those on this site as well as PMs to a number of members that gave me very honest replies. The Bitubos have quite a following but they just need too much tweaking for a guy like me. I'm doing good to remember to make the adjustment prior to loading up and leaving. Old age.

Since I had to put my trip to Traxxion off, I read your input with great interest. Maybe the Ricor's are the way to go? Has anyone compared the two systems yet? Don?

JW
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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2009, 01:10:19 PM »

Front-

AK20's-front end no longer bottoms out and no diving.

Rear-

Progressive 12.5" std 440's..  Easy to adjust and ride great (to me).
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fgizzo

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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2009, 11:27:42 PM »

Just an update, I installed the 440's on the rear and have tried them on several different settings and I must say I do not feel any difference from the stock air shocks, am I missing something?

I went with the 12" regular spring. Right now they are on the softest setting which has improved the ride slightly, but I would be hard pressed to tell the difference from the stock Showa's

I would definitely not say these are worth $400 - Just my 2 cents

 
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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 08:39:42 AM »

Just an update, I installed the 440's on the rear and have tried them on several different settings and I must say I do not feel any difference from the stock air shocks, am I missing something?

I went with the 12" regular spring. Right now they are on the softest setting which has improved the ride slightly, but I would be hard pressed to tell the difference from the stock Showa's

I would definitely not say these are worth $400 - Just my 2 cents

 
Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 10:50:34 PM »
You should of listened to AJ ;)     
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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 02:30:46 PM »

At 20 lbs. of air in the stock shocks I'm sure you were bottoming out, riding two up.  I ran 35 lbs. solo and 45 lbs. two up.

Most SEEG owners were switching to the Progressive 440 shocks but I didn't want to be in the situation that you're in (can't tell any difference).  Eventually I sprung for the Progressive 440 HD (heavy duty) shocks.  Initially I thought there wasn't any difference and posted here, that it was wasted money.  Eventually I learned that while I had one shock adjusted to four full rotations up, the other shock was four full rotations down.  Once I got them set right, there's no comparrison to the stock shocks.

While they're a little stiffer than the stock shocks, that aids in handling and you don't have the bone jarring bottoming out that the stock shocks have.  I can loosen them up when it's just me or crank em down when I'm going to be loaded up for a road trip.  Find somebody that's near you that's familiar with Progressive and you'll be happy with them :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Yikes ! Suspension is awful
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 03:01:10 PM »

I run with the Progressive 440 (HD), I tried the standard duty and blew a seal with my wife on the back on my old SEUC.
I am 195 and the wife....... not heavy at all.

The HD is the way to go, not sure I have mine dialed in right. I saw a thread that was very specific on how to dial them in, just ain't got that far yet.

I am satisfied with them.
They perform quite well, the main reason for the change ....... I am vertically challenged. 5'7" I needed to lower the bike.

I catch a bump every time I ride that makes a noise, doesn't mean the shock isn't working.

Hang around a year or so and see how the road maintenance crews are doing.....if they haven't been laid off. :)
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