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Author Topic: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles  (Read 8408 times)

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Keats

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2010, 12:46:52 PM »

They found the person responsible.

I see where they have the one in the car that actually hit the cycles.

He was driven off the road to the right and ended up crossing back over the road into the cycles.

I have not seen yet, that they got the guy (Honda Guy)that actually started the the chain reaction.

 
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ak

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2010, 01:09:38 PM »

Sad Day, That hit,s  any group hard.To think your going to have fun for the weekend and not come back home sucks. I was on a ride this weekend, pounded a lot of ground/miles when i heard of this.  Can,t help but wonder if there was anything the group could have done to save there live,s . Were they packed up to tight? Did they have time to Ditch ? Run there bikes off road then go down ? i,ve done that 7k damage to bike a little black and blue but i,m still here.  anything we can learn from this?  if there is a collection for the family,s i,m in...AK
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CVOJOE

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2010, 03:21:39 PM »

Horrible mess and my thoughts go out to the survivors and families. The guy that hit them allegedly was drunk, and he's the one ultimately responsible. If they ever find the other car, they can go after them as well, but it'll be tough without a plate number or better ID than what's been said so far. Another senseless tragedy.
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greglyon

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2010, 03:25:39 PM »

dam shame
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DDavidson

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 03:46:25 PM »

My condolences to the families, friends and all concerned.

Accident caused by a person who has determined his reason for being in a hurry, and damn the consequences. Being done by persons with two, four and eighteen wheelers. (Driver mentality: A bad driver is a driver that doesn't drive like me! If they drive slower than me they are a wuss if they drive faster than me they are a maniac.)

12 motorcycles in a group (staggered on that road) would almost equal (guessing) eight cars driving in a group? Doing between 50 - 70 mph. Hard to pass safely.

You obviously can't stop a determined vehicle from passing so how does a group of bikes communicate or go about letting somebody go around them on two lane roads. I could see where a large group might leave a gap like every 4, 6, or 8, bikes. Rear riders flashing headlights to warn bikes in front that a wannabe passer is behind group. You can't drive safely forward by constantly checking your rear but being aware of what's behind is good defensively. (I've also heard of an unwritten rule that you don't let other vehicles into the group. PRIDE!)

I've seen situations where some drivers go really slow through curvy or hilly sections of road backing up lots of traffic and then speed up to where they can't be safely passed in the straight aways, instead of staying at a slower speed so vehicles can safely go around, and then speeding up. (Trailer towers, trucks with heavy loads, motorcycle groups, etc.) This situation has caused lots of drivers to take extra risks in passing, mostly out of frustration. I'm guilty!!!

Maintaining the speed limit would be the safest for most scenarios. People tend to want to pass more when the vehicle in front is below the posted speed. (You will always have the person who wants to be first and fastest and I don't really care as long as they aren't endangering everybody around them. I try to figure out a way to safely let them go by. But how to do this in a large group of riders is my question?)

All my respect and heartfelt condolences to the victims of this accident. My questions and comments are only in regards to understanding how to be the safest when riding in a group.  
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 03:52:24 PM by D31960 »
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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 07:23:28 PM »

 The driver of the Avenger was found sober by tox. tests today. He now has to live with loosing a friend killed in the crash and reliving the whole scene over and over. As of 4p today the Honda driver has not been located.
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MAT

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 09:43:00 PM »

The driver of the Avenger was found sober by tox. tests today. He now has to live with loosing a friend killed in the crash and reliving the whole scene over and over. As of 4p today the Honda driver has not been located.



So glad he was found to be sober ( just heard this also ) with all he has to deal with the rest of his life!
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red ben59

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2010, 08:41:30 AM »

This is tragic. None of us is promised another day. But to lose friends and family to a IDIOT leaves no comfort. With all the traffic cameras in use I can't believe this SOB can't be found. Prayers are out for the families.
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mr_magoo

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2010, 09:22:34 AM »

Fled to mexico, go figure.
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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2010, 10:25:03 AM »

As a long time San Diego resident I can tell you that I've riden that piece of road on many occasions. It's nice out there this time of year, especially this year because we've had so much rain. It's truely unfortunate to see a wreck of this magnitude and the circumstances behind it. I hope the Honda driver will be found and brought to justice, It won't bring back those lost, but will certainly help the survivors deal with this disaster. My thoughts and prayers go out to The Saddle Tramps MC and their families and friends.

_Beags
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MAT

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2010, 11:32:32 AM »

As a long time San Diego resident I can tell you that I've riden that piece of road on many occasions. It's nice out there this time of year, especially this year because we've had so much rain. It's truely unfortunate to see a wreck of this magnitude and the circumstances behind it. I hope the Honda driver will be found and brought to justice, It won't bring back those lost, but will certainly help the survivors deal with this disaster. My thoughts and prayers go out to The Saddle Tramps MC and their families and friends.

_Beags


X2, and here is the latest from the media....http://www.pe.com/ap_news/California/US_Motorcycles_Crash_538429C.shtml
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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2010, 06:15:37 PM »

Please keep the info coming. I hope the driver of the Honda is found soon. My prayers go out to the families and friends to all that were involved in this horrible accident.....
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Spiderman

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2010, 06:24:26 PM »

As the years pass, and I watch my riding skills erode with age and injury, I ponder incidents such as this. I'm not alone as I've gotten a couple of PM's from long time site friends contemplating hanging it up after seeing the images on TV and reading of this.
This is a motorcycle forum. As established, it is here for us to discuss issues regarding this thing we all love so much. I am saddened by the loss of a group of indivduals who gave much to the San Diego community and took little in return. My heart goes out to family members of lost loved ones and I cannot help but think of the man who will have to be told his wife is gone when he comes out of the induced coma he's in.
There are thousands of members on this forum. Is there anything each of us can learn from this ? How can we help each other avoid a similar fate ?  We can discuss the issue and listen to each who contributes a retelling of an experince they may have had that did not end in tragedy as this did.
I want to begin that discussion by saying that nothing I write here should be misconstrued or twisted around in any fashion that might suggest that this horrific incident was in any way the fault of the SaddleTramps. They are not a 1%er club in any way shape or form other than that some folks less schooled in flying colors might think theirs to be of the 1%er variety. They are not. They are a good bunch of folks. Beags and I 1st encountered them practically at their inception 10 years ago when they hosted a benefit for a local indy shop owner in need of a heart transplant. And throughout their history that is what they have done. The news reports even mentioned the amount of time and money they have donated to the Boys and Girls Clubs of San Diego. Good folks doing what they love exercising their freedom as Americans to express themselves in the fashion they choose. Not much else I can say there.
Moving along, what is the how and why of this. The why is that an impatient driver did not wish to continue to drive behind a small pack of motorcycles at below the posted speed. The how is that he passed that group in an illegal and as we have seen deadly manner. Could anything have been done by the riders to protect themselves here ? Perhaps, perhaps not. I am going to suggest a couple of things. A)  A dozen bikes riding two abreast with 8 ft between them as do patch clubs is taking up aprx the same distance as three autos driving one behind the other. So therein lies my 1st suggestion. Keep to groups small enough to allow for some idiot to pass you illegally or large enough that even the most bold and drunken would not attempt it.
B) Bikers riding "Parade Formation" unless they are of the 1%er outlaw variety will most often ride below the posted speed limit. Often by as much as 10mph. Fine and legal and prudent, especially as in this case the intent of the ride was a nice leasurely putt in celebration of 10 years of brotherhood. But nonetheless, an impetus for an impatient and perhaps drunken driver to get tired of being "stuck" behind the pack and attempt a pass. So my 2nd suggestion is that if you're going to ride in group formation like this, ride a few mph above the posted speed limit. Some might say "well that's illegal" Perhaps, but doubtful to me that a cop is going to pull over a dozen motorcycles going down the road at 70 in a 65 zone if they are all obviously in control and riding in proper fashion. C) Any ride of more than four vehicles should have an appointed Road Captain and an agreed upon set of hand signals that all recognize. In this case what could the RC have done. One hand straight up over the RC's head being waved fore and aft signaling single file as soon as it was noticed that a vehicle was attempting an illegal pass. All bikes fall in behind one another and move to the extreme right side of their lane, perhaps even slowing down quickly to allow the driver of the vehicle passing the opportunity to be done with his stupidity as soon as possible. In a fair world, the group encounters the driver of the vehicle at a gas stop somewhere down the road and explains to him/her the error of their ways but at the #1 thing you do while something wrong is going on is protect yourself. And lastly would be that riding parade formation at highway speeds is not prudent. There is nowhere for the rider closest to the lane divider to go with another bike to his/her right. As such, when riding in groups, rider should stagger the formation so each vehicle has ample room to move to the right if needed.
Would any of the above have prevented what happened ? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes an inch is a good as mile in a near miss. I recall one day long long ago in a group of 10 bikes on a blind corner in Maine, out of nowhere a Corvette lost control going into the corner coming at us and actually rounded the corner broadside to our group. Several of us went off the road into the woods to avoid the Vette and one guy was banged up a bit from sideswiping a tree as he did so. But, we all lived to tell the tale and the Vette itself was the recipient of numerous broken parts as the driver locked himself in while we prevented him from driving away. Not that the town Constable was pleased with any of us for that , but adrenelin creates such scenes.
In closing, I would say to those who have read the reports, watched the images on TV and questioned their own continued riding; before you make a decision like that, ask yourself if you have ever given any thought to being prepared for the eventuality of an act of wanton stupidity such as what caused this tragedy ? If your answer is no then maybe you should rethink how you ride rather than quit. If it is yes you have considered contingencies then by all means quit. There's no more dangerous a motorcycle rider than one who's afraid of riding. And above all else - - - - Vaya Con Dios
 

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Beemer

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2010, 08:02:06 AM »

BB,

I agree with many of your suggestions but I can't imagine ever riding abreast at anything over 15-20 mph.  I guess I'm paranoid about having an escape rout available at all times but its kept me in one piece...so far.  

I read in one of the news articles that this group was riding staggered with 3-4 car lengths between them.  To me, this is the perfect interval for that speed and may be the reason why so many of the other riders in the group survived albeit with serious injuries to the ones who went down & off the pavement to avoid the car.  At a combined speed of 120 mph, you only have a fraction of a second to make a decision on evasive action or just do it instinctively.  I don't know how I would perform in a situation like this.  

I avoid riding in large groups but when I do, I pick a spot as far back as possible and leave as much room as possible.  I much prefer to ride in a group of 3-4 bikes but we (wife & I) ride solo lately.  I too sat in the garage last night and pondered what my life would be like if I gave riding up...I do this every time something like this happens.  Last time was when that Meth-head in the truck ran over that group at the stop light...again, not much they could have done on the riders part.

Our prayers are with the victims and their families & friends.  This tragedy has effected not only them but thousands of riders and non-riders who've read or seen this on the news.  

God bless,

« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 07:42:32 AM by 61bbltop »
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naitram

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Re: 5 dead 5 hurt in SoCal crash with 7 cycles
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2010, 08:55:20 AM »

lots of things about this to ponder. i have ridden truly solo and 2up with no other bikes around. i have ridden in groups both small and large. and as i make regular visits to a good friend of mine who after 1 month still hasn't been told when he will be allowed to bend his knee as part of his rehab ( or when they will let him go home ) who i think would agree he made a bad judgement call going around a vehicle waiting to take a left turn, almost lost part of his leg moving 15-20 mph. he doesn't think he will ever ride again and he owns 3 motorcycles. not really sure where i'm going with this, just rambling on here.... but we take a risk every time we walk out the front door of our house we all chose to make riding part of our lives the reason we do it are different for each of us but no matter how many close calls i have had with cagers who are doing everything but driving their vehicle while driving or close call because of a bad decision i have made, i just don't see me stopping riding.
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