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Author Topic: Sumped again!  (Read 42137 times)

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Cvostu

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #255 on: December 13, 2018, 11:13:33 PM »

Really sorry to read this.    Hope things work out.   :nixweiss:
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SDCVO

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #256 on: December 13, 2018, 11:27:02 PM »

The part that is very strange to me, if I read it right, was that the oil level on the dipstick went from nothing registered to 3/4 full while the bike was sitting in the parking lot of the donut shop.  Theoretically that can't happen with a dry sump engine, since no oil transfers from the sump to the oil pan unless the engine is running.  Or did I just read it wrong and the oil level increased after letting the engine idle for a period of time?  Either way, assuming you have the latest oil pump cover and seal, your experience is not the first time I've read something about a bike with the latest parts sumping; I've seen a couple other reports similar to yours.  In one report the rider recognized the symptoms and pulled over, allowed the bike to cool for a period of time, fired it up and rode it home without a repeat.  He was advised to have the engine checked for damage but I never saw a further report from him.

Jerry
No Jerry, you read that correctly. I did check the oil immediately after shutting it off and then again about 30 minutes later. Only slight chance of an error on my part is that I didn't get the first service done until around 1100 miles so oil (Amsoil) was very clear and admittedly I was freaking out when I hit the LED dipstick and it showed no oil so when I pulled the dipstick out I didn't have my gloves on and only had a napkin holding it so it was very hot and I looked at it very quickly and then threw it down (in frustration along with it burning me..) on the grass next to me. I might have not seen it correctly but when I came back 30 minuted later the LED dipstick then did show about 3/4 full. When I stopped at the gas station 5 minutes later both the LED dipstick showed full and this time I grabbed a handful of paper towels and for sure saw that dipstick was full as well. Dealer told me same thing that oil couldn't have returned with bike off and they thought maybe it just hadn't drained down yet which is ridiculous to me to that degree. I do think when I got home and it showed 3/4 when I first jumped off the bike and then full 10 minutes later that was the oil draining down. Dealer hated the LED dipstick (as does my buddy that was a tech) and keeps telling me how unreliable they are but so far every time I check both ways they have been spot on.
Only good thing is I finally got to tread the work order today and dealer definitely did document everything very accurately and showed results of compression and leak down tests. I am comfortable at least that no damage was done to motor. As I just posted I will video everything going forward so next time there will be no question. Of course I hope and pray there will not be a next time but unfortunately I don't believe in the Easter Bunny any longer..
Such a bummer, really was loving the bike.
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Alan

Heatwave

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #257 on: December 14, 2018, 01:10:44 AM »

Did you experience any power loss? With the oil completely off the dipstick, the bike would have a crankcase full of oil (assuming the oil was at FULL at the start of the ride). With a crankcase full of oil you would experience a massive power loss.

Its really important to follow the steps in the owners manual for checking the oil level.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 09:46:43 AM by Heatwave »
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JCZ

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #258 on: December 14, 2018, 09:40:58 AM »

Alan....you, Andy, Miguel and I were on a ride and that LED dipstick issue came up.  I suggested back then that you throw that thing away....they are not accurate and will only cause you unnecessary stress.  Throw it in the trash!  There's a reason all the motor techs keep telling you they're garbage and that's the reason nobody uses them anymore.   :nixweiss:
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #259 on: December 15, 2018, 12:00:29 AM »

Did you experience any power loss? With the oil completely off the dipstick, the bike would have a crankcase full of oil (assuming the oil was at FULL at the start of the ride). With a crankcase full of oil you would experience a massive power loss.

Its really important to follow the steps in the owners manual for checking the oil level.
Yes, I did have the power loss which was how I knew I had a problem and why I pulled over and checked the oil immediately. I of course know how to check the oil properly, I was just so out of my mind when I did pull over because I knew I had an issue again that I let my emotions get the best of me. Tomorrow when I ride I will check the oil every time I stop and will video it each time. Will see what happens this weekend, hoping for the best!
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #260 on: December 15, 2018, 12:12:33 AM »

My recommendation would be to actually state in the video that you are checking the oil level by following the procedure in the owners manual. This way, neither the dealer or HD Customer Service can argue that you improperly checked the oil level.

Just trying to help by suggesting you leave the dealer and HD as little wiggle room as possible if the engine sumps again when your riding vs the dealer. The dealers never spend enough time on the bike to truly test sumping. I believe it takes at least 75-100 miles for a cold engine to get a bike into circumstances that can initiate M8 engine sumping.
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JCZ

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #261 on: December 15, 2018, 09:06:22 AM »

Yes, I did have the power loss which was how I knew I had a problem and why I pulled over and checked the oil immediately. I of course know how to check the oil properly, I was just so out of my mind when I did pull over because I knew I had an issue again that I let my emotions get the best of me. Tomorrow when I ride I will check the oil every time I stop and will video it each time. Will see what happens this weekend, hoping for the best!


Was good to see you yesterday Alan.  We'll get a ride in before I leave San Diego.

Get rid of that LED dipstick.  Don't want to give the MoCo something to throw an excuse at. 
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Never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence.  Remember...it's the journey, not the destination!

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Reno, NV (04), Reno, NV (05),  Cripple Creek, CO (06)  Hood River, OR (09), Lake Tahoe, CA (11) Carmel, CA (14), Ouray CO (15) Fortuna, Ca. (16)

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #262 on: December 15, 2018, 09:37:29 PM »

some good news to report for a change, went about 250 miles today and bike ran great. Took about 6 videos of me checking the oil that I just deleted.. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow.
JC, not using the LED for anything other than the top of the dipstick I unscrew (though I may have "peeked" at it a few times and it was spot on to what the stick said..) :o
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #263 on: December 22, 2018, 09:37:10 AM »

My recommendation would be to actually state in the video that you are checking the oil level by following the procedure in the owners manual. This way, neither the dealer or HD Customer Service can argue that you improperly checked the oil level.

Just trying to help by suggesting you leave the dealer and HD as little wiggle room as possible if the engine sumps again when your riding vs the dealer. The dealers never spend enough time on the bike to truly test sumping. I believe it takes at least 75-100 miles for a cold engine to get a bike into circumstances that can initiate M8 engine sumping.

Heatwave,  I sumped my totally stock 18 CVO the first time on a 40 mile ride. The bike had 168 miles on the odometer. Then the dealer took it out and cooked the engine.   Then H/D hand built my replacement engine as a stage IV. And I babied it for the next 1,000 miles and brought it to Florida and sumped it on the first trip. The 18 was a replacement after sumping the 17 with two replacement engines. 
So my bike is sitting in a Florida dealership and H/D is getting me a second replacement bike.  I told them to leave it totally stock.  I requested a Mako Shark Fade and they had none available but were able to add 1 additional bike into production.  It was officially assembled yesterday in York, Pa.  and being shipped to Florida by the second week of January.   I will say this, Harley Davidson is honestly going out of their way to make things right but I think H/D has had my bike for more days then I have??  Thank goodness I have a garage full of bikes.  So as I told our rep, I will keep the bike stock for the winter and after Myrtle Beach I will ride it back to New York and go aftermarket for a fix unless H/D actually gives in and builds a completely different fix for this.  Two years of this is not fun.  Sad thing is I actually thought they fixed my 18 and just installed Yaffe bars, mirrors and other stuff which I will lose. Not to mention, two extended warranties I lost money on and one of the local Long Island dealers now hates me.  Let's hope the 2019 makes it through a Florida winter.  LOL  I don't mean to laugh because it's cost me thousands in lost parts and labor but the alternative is to cry.   
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Heatwave

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #264 on: December 22, 2018, 09:48:45 AM »


Heatwave,  I sumped my totally stock 18 CVO the first time on a 40 mile ride. The bike had 168 miles on the odometer. Then the dealer took it out and cooked the engine.   Then H/D hand built my replacement engine as a stage IV. And I babied it for the next 1,000 miles and brought it to Florida and sumped it on the first trip. The 18 was a replacement after sumping the 17 with two replacement engines. 
So my bike is sitting in a Florida dealership and H/D is getting me a second replacement bike.  I told them to leave it totally stock.  I requested a Mako Shark Fade and they had none available but were able to add 1 additional bike into production.  It was officially assembled yesterday in York, Pa.  and being shipped to Florida by the second week of January.   I will say this, Harley Davidson is honestly going out of their way to make things right but I think H/D has had my bike for more days then I have??  Thank goodness I have a garage full of bikes.  So as I told our rep, I will keep the bike stock for the winter and after Myrtle Beach I will ride it back to New York and go aftermarket for a fix unless H/D actually gives in and builds a completely different fix for this.  Two years of this is not fun.  Sad thing is I actually thought they fixed my 18 and just installed Yaffe bars, mirrors and other stuff which I will lose. Not to mention, two extended warranties I lost money on and one of the local Long Island dealers now hates me.  Let's hope the 2019 makes it through a Florida winter.  LOL  I don't mean to laugh because it's cost me thousands in lost parts and labor but the alternative is to cry.   

I can only wish you the best with your 2019. Hopefully the new 2019 bike brings your sad saga to an end. Let us know how the new bike turns out.
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SDCVO

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #265 on: December 22, 2018, 11:07:18 PM »

some good news to report for a change, went about 250 miles today and bike ran great. Took about 6 videos of me checking the oil that I just deleted.. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow.
JC, not using the LED for anything other than the top of the dipstick I unscrew (though I may have "peeked" at it a few times and it was spot on to what the stick said..) :o
More good news, 450 miles today with no issues. Maybe-maybe--
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #266 on: December 22, 2018, 11:10:18 PM »

I will say reading the tire thread where guys are getting 15000-20000 (some complaining about that..) miles on their tires kinda makes me understand why my motors keep sumping.
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Alan

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #267 on: December 23, 2018, 07:06:16 AM »

More good news, 450 miles today with no issues. Maybe-maybe--
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Ironhorse

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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #268 on: December 23, 2018, 09:09:48 AM »

I will say reading the tire thread where guys are getting 15000-20000 (some complaining about that..) miles on their tires kinda makes me understand why my motors keep sumping.

Sorry Alan,

But I’m not following this line of thought. How does tire mileage give you an understanding of why your engines keep sumping?

Mark
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Re: Sumped again!
« Reply #269 on: December 23, 2018, 09:46:54 AM »

I will say reading the tire thread where guys are getting 15000-20000 (some complaining about that..) miles on their tires kinda makes me understand why my motors keep sumping.

I've never got close to 1500 on a rear tire.  Maybe that's cuz I'm tryin to keep up with you.   :nixweiss:   Are we riding Sat. or Sun?
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Never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence.  Remember...it's the journey, not the destination!

West Coast GTG   
Reno, NV (04), Reno, NV (05),  Cripple Creek, CO (06)  Hood River, OR (09), Lake Tahoe, CA (11) Carmel, CA (14), Ouray CO (15) Fortuna, Ca. (16)
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