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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: jpgrfan on June 19, 2020, 09:02:26 AM
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I'm wondering how many of you did after market engine, tuner, and exhaust upgrades prior to your MOCO 2 year warranty was over? Any regrets?
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The bugs have for the most part been worked out and discovered on this platform. If done properly with a matched combination of parts the M8 can become very fun for not a lot of money compared to a Twin Cam. They become very large without a case bore. Just a big bore kit, cam, and tune plus 2020 oil pump change will make a huge difference.
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That was my thought. I just traded my 2013 CVO RG on a 2019 CVO RG with on 140 miles on it, so brand new. I had fullsac exhaust and cores and a TTS tuner on the 110 and was very happy with that ride. After breakin I'm thinking Fullsac again with a tuner, Fueling Cam plate and oiler and a CAM.
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You will be happy with that setup... Don’t overlook the new 2020 HD oil pump.. It gets great reviews and it a lot cheaper then the aftermarket....
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Ok Thanks!
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Consider others. CycleRama and TTS make bolt in grinds that work very well. Consider the tuning plan too, a flash tuner and a dyno shop that knows their way around. You do not need the cam plate changed just the pump to the 2020 which is less than half the price of the aftermarket offerings. Change the lifters and add S&S cuffs.
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Definitely some good advice here. The toughest part is finding a real tuner that knows their way around the TTS system.
Congrats and welcome!
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Is there a fav tuner that most guys like??
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Which/whose lifters are recommended?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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S&S lifters fosho…..
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Definitely some good advice here. The toughest part is finding a real tuner that knows their way around the TTS system.
Congrats and welcome!
Not hard. Washington state right? We have two shops nearby and one in Nanaimo when BC opens again. If you don't have a tuning device let the tuner provide that. Many will sell the license and then no device purchase is needed. Saves money!
Our Top Gun premium lifters are black, slow bleed, and affordable, made in north america. Work well, run quiet, and have been proven since the first release in year 2000.
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Already own the TTS Mastertune, what shops in Washington are you thinking?? Canada is a no go, if you catch my drift.
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I'm wondering how many of you did after market engine, tuner, and exhaust upgrades prior to your MOCO 2 year warranty was over? Any regrets?
I did. Bike was 6 months when I did then fullsac complete exhaust and then at 15 months I built the engine. No regrets.
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Already own the TTS Mastertune, what shops in Washington are you thinking?? Canada is a no go, if you catch my drift.
Easy Street Cycles, Tacoma. Dyno Steve, Olympia.
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Thanks
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Consider others. CycleRama and TTS make bolt in grinds that work very well. Consider the tuning plan too, a flash tuner and a dyno shop that knows their way around. You do not need the cam plate changed just the pump to the 2020 which is less than half the price of the aftermarket offerings. Change the lifters and add S&S cuffs.
Why add the S&S lifter cuffs?
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Can I stop using them? If so please explain.
I like the added strength vs plastic lightweight stock parts and support especially with high lift faster ramp cams.
I also use S&S head bolts on every m8 with the heads coming off, and have good reasons for those.
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Can I stop using them? If so please explain.
I like the added strength vs plastic lightweight stock parts and support especially with high lift faster ramp cams.
I also use S&S head bolts on every m8 with the heads coming off, and have good reasons for those.
If you look back at the Twin Cam motor and all it's valve train noise 80% or better cause of that noise was the lifters slapping the metal anti roll pins. The M8 quited the valve train noise substantially with the plastic cuffs while providing a more controlled lifter travel. The stock plastic cuffs also provide a little movement from the bolt and ball integrated in the cuff for expansion and less wear on the lifter. The GM LS motors have been using this same cuff design for several years, there is nothing to be worried about.....they are proven already. The Solid metal cuff is ridged which is not forgiving and you're back to a metal against ''moving'' metal making valve train noise again. The only thing I see here is another product that will lighten your wallet.......!
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Right out of the gate on a 2020 CVO Road Glide I had a stage I installed with Vance and Hines Power Duals, S&S Grand Nationals with decibel reducers, and a flash with the HD tuner to keep the warranty. The bike runs unbelievably hot. Enough to sizzle my passengers ankles and it pings VERY easily on long hot days. I bit the bullet and scheduled install of the CR480 cam and tune with Sheffer Performance HD on July 11th. I didn't want to void my warranty this early but I've gotta get this bike cooled down. Also adding Love Jugs Mighty Mite fans.
All of the torque curves I've seen of the 480 look great. I can't wait!
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Right out of the gate on a 2020 CVO Road Glide I had a stage I installed with Vance and Hines Power Duals, S&S Grand Nationals with decibel reducers, and a flash with the HD tuner to keep the warranty. The bike runs unbelievably hot. Enough to sizzle my passengers ankles and it pings VERY easily on long hot days. I bit the bullet and scheduled install of the CR480 cam and tune with Sheffer Performance HD on July 11th. I didn't want to void my warranty this early but I've gotta get this bike cooled down. Also adding Love Jugs Mighty Mite fans.
All of the torque curves I've seen of the 480 look great. I can't wait!
So the dealer sent you home with a brand new bike that is all but unrideable and you're not at least asking them about what they might do or how they might follow up to improve the outcome of their work. I get it, apparently you prescribed the parts to go. Whomever dictates the menu is significantly responsible for the outcome. But the chef or shop using that menu should have some insight and, therefore, at least partial responsibility for knowing the ingredients will play well together. Shouldn't they?
Perhaps you have spoken with them and just decided moving on to the next step was the best option. It's yours so no one should be telling you, in the end, what to do. Just curious why the original shop is now out of the picture when the problem is work they had an initial role in?
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So the dealer sent you home with a brand new bike that is all but unrideable and you're not at least asking them about what they might do or how they might follow up to improve the outcome of their work. I get it, apparently you prescribed the parts to go. Whomever dictates the menu is significantly responsible for the outcome. But the chef or shop using that menu should have some insight and, therefore, at least partial responsibility for knowing the ingredients will play well together. Shouldn't they?
Perhaps you have spoken with them and just decided moving on to the next step was the best option. It's yours so no one should be telling you, in the end, what to do. Just curious why the original shop is now out of the picture when the problem is work they had an initial role in?
The exhaust setup was my choice. I like the power characteristics of 2-1-2 head pipes paired along with not-so-big slip-ons (the decibel reducers were more a draw for performance characteristics, not necessarily reducing volume).
This setup was purchased and installed by the dealer I purchased the bike from, and then immediately flashed with an EPA compliant stage 1 map to retain the warranty. I should have clarified "pings easily" meaning it does it easy on very long hot days, such as Oklahoma stop-n-go traffic I was stuck in when I noticed the pinging. Not necessarily every riding condition I'm under, my fault for poor explanation. The overall heat physically felt from the motor in general is much more than my previous Road King...……..which was comprehensively tuned.
I did consult the dealer about the issue. They said the tuner only added so much fuel to stay EPA compliant which in turn kept my warranty. Obviously a non-EPA tune would cool the bike down, and of course the warranty goes out the window.
I've had this bike for 3 months and have already put 12,000 miles on it. So yes, it's my choice and risk to go ahead and expedite the cam/tune that I originally was going to wait until the 30,000 mile mark to do. Which for me would have been this winter. I figured a canned EPA map would run hot. Just not this hot.
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The exhaust setup was my choice. I like
Totally get it. At the end of the day we make our choices and ride on. Doing what we want or need to make the rides right is choice that's always worth making once that path has been started. It really does become pretty much the polar options of stay stock for entirety of warranty on the one hand or just do as you damn well please on the other. Hope the cams and tune make a great ride.
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Totally get it. At the end of the day we make our choices and ride on. Doing what we want or need to make the rides right is choice that's always worth making once that path has been started. It really does become pretty much the polar options of stay stock for entirety of warranty on the one hand or just do as you damn well please on the other. Hope the cams and tune make a great ride.
I was excited to get rid of the catalytic converter and at least have the exhaust I wanted on there while waiting for the warranty clock to wind down. I self admittedly don't have the discipline to wait out the warranty at this point. If something goes wrong, no one to blame but myself :) I see a lot of people void the warranty day 1, at least I lasted this long, haha!
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CVO’s come from the factory with a stage I download if I am not mistaken.
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A stage one added includes harleys pipes. As soon as the dealer got rid of the cat and didn't
use their pipe, the pipes designed for the combination, the motor portion of the warranty was blown. Unless of course you have those pipes and you would swap them on in the event of a failure. It will run well after the cam change and tune. A lenient dealer may still honor a motor related issue but doesn't have to.
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A stage one added includes harleys pipes. As soon as the dealer got rid of the cat and didn't
use their pipe, the pipes designed for the combination, the motor portion of the warranty was blown. Unless of course you have those pipes and you would swap them on in the event of a failure. It will run well after the cam change and tune. A lenient dealer may still honor a motor related issue but doesn't have to.
They explained to me the exhaust combo chosen wouldn't affect the warranty because the flash would keep it EPA compliant and the dealership was installing everything. I was also wondering about that upon purchase since neither the head pipe nor the slip ons would have a cat. I guess it won't matter once the cam/tune are complete, but I wouldn't be surprised if they "thought" that everything they were doing was legit and inadvertently voided my warranty. If anything had happened prior to this cam/tune, I would have fought it aggressively since that's the guidance I received.
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You could also assume that the tune they used was for a cat setup since it is supposed to be EPA friendly and by using said map without a cat would definitely make it run too lean. But as you said by upgrading the cam and going with a non EPA tune the point is moot anyway.
Congrat's on all!
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They explained to me the exhaust combo chosen wouldn't affect the warranty because the flash would keep it EPA compliant and the dealership was installing everything. I was also wondering about that upon purchase since neither the head pipe nor the slip ons would have a cat. I guess it won't matter once the cam/tune are complete, but I wouldn't be surprised if they "thought" that everything they were doing was legit and inadvertently voided my warranty. If anything had happened prior to this cam/tune, I would have fought it aggressively since that's the guidance I received.
Scott, I don’t see anyway a dealer “thought” that everything they were doing is legit and inadvertently voided the warranty. After HD paid the multimillion dollar settlement on their EPA violation, I’m sure every dealer was notified of HD’s policy on engine mods and warranty voiding. If a dealer was to claim they “didn’t know,” well that doesn’t pass my smell test.
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Scott, I don’t see anyway a dealer “thought” that everything they were doing is legit and inadvertently voided the warranty. After HD paid the multimillion dollar settlement on their EPA violation, I’m sure every dealer was notified of HD’s policy on engine mods and warranty voiding. If a dealer was to claim they “didn’t know,” well that doesn’t pass my smell test.
At no point during the transaction did anyone say, "Hey just a heads-up, if you do this combo your warranty will immediately be voided". I'm open to the fact the dealer may be shady, ignorant, or a mix of both. There's probably some ignorance on my part also for not asking about the warranty situation with that exhaust. In my defense....I sorta/kinda figured that's something that would have been brought up at the time of purchase.
It will be irrelevant once the cam is installed and tuned. But if anything goes wrong between now and July 11th, it will be my problem solely. I won't hop on here and complain if there's an issue.
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You could also assume that the tune they used was for a cat setup since it is supposed to be EPA friendly and by using said map without a cat would definitely make it run too lean. But as you said by upgrading the cam and going with a non EPA tune the point is moot anyway.
Congrat's on all!
What is an EPA tune? And what is considered too lean?
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Canned maps from Harley to be used in accordance with the EPA guidelines usually with their "stage kits"
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Canned maps from Harley to be used in accordance with the EPA guidelines usually with their "stage kits"
Harley meets the EPA standards by choking the air going in with restricted air filters and choking the air coming out with restrictive exhaust........less air equals less emissions. The maps are NOT lean in any since of the word. The no load cruising area is around 14.5 to 14.45, this is not a lean condition, the loaded area like passing or just playing around is anywhere between 13.5 to 12.5 depending on the bike.....this is certainly not a lean condition. My point is Harley maps are not lean or what some call an EPA map. Not trying to be snooty here, I just hear this all the time in my business and I just want to express EPA maps just don't exist. Trust me.....when we install headers, mufflers, high flow air filter kits we are a EPA violation. More air equals more emissions.
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Good information Doc. Makes a lot of sense on the air in and out of the engine. I do know the high flow CVO air cleaners on the M8 bikes are quite restrictive and not high flow.
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Thoughts on this being lean, please share insights.
HD 131 just like HD has intended except S&S MK-45 mufflers. Canned tune from SEPST. Bike runs great, little weak below 2,800 due to cam, very HOT due to cat. No exhaust fumes and MPG around 38 depending on riding conditions. Speeds over 70 seem to significantly reduce the mpg.
Removed the H-D head pipe that came with the kit and installed a Fuel Moto 2/1/2, not the XXX, and kept the S&S mufflers. Added the H-D auto tuner, no other changes.
Exhaust note is substantially louder, more power at the entire RPM range including under 2,800. Bike runes noticeably cooler, smoother and the last tank of gas after nearly a 400 mile ride the mpg was about 40.5. Much of the ride was 75+ mph. I ride 190 miles on that tank, the most I’ve ridden between gas stops since I had the 131 installed, about 3k miles ago. No weird sounds from the exhaust and no popping or cracking when on decel.
I notice when I’m coming to a stop that I have some exhaust fumes. Does not smell like raw fuel just smells like a combination of fuel and oil. I’m assuming this is just because there is nothing to filter out the exhaust since there is no cat in place. The guy riding behind me say he did not smell it and it was not strong enough to leave an odor on the clothes I was wearing, but noticeably to me since before there was no smell at all.
I assume with a cooler running motor and better MPG things should be ok. Not really wanting to change the tuner until I change the cam next year.
I appreciate any thoughts on insights members can add.
Thanks