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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin’ Eagle® Dyna® => Topic started by: fxdsebeloved on January 24, 2008, 05:52:32 PM
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It was suggested to me, that I should have the runout checked after the repair of the leaky cylinder. I talk to the dealer that did the repair and the they all looked at me like I was some foreign being.. "Never heard of that" "Don't know what your talking about" "Crank runout" :nixweiss:(Quote from the sacred book of MOCO)
Called MOCO to discuss this potential problem.. (All I want is to have it checked to have some Peace of mind on the bike) Basically the answer fomr MOCO was after talking to the so call Tech on hand Have your dealer check it, if there's a problem then it's on us. If there is no problem then the service call is on me >:(
What a bunch of B.S.
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It was suggested to me, that I should have the runout checked after the repair of the leaky cylinder. I talk to the dealer that did the repair and the they all looked at me like I was some foreign being.. "Never heard of that" "Don't know what your talking about" "Crank runout" :nixweiss:(Quote from the sacred book of MOCO)
Called MOCO to discuss this potential problem.. (All I want is to have it checked to have some Peace of mind on the bike) Basically the answer fomr MOCO was after talking to the so call Tech on hand Have your dealer check it, if there's a problem then it's on us. If there is no problem then the service call is on me >:(
What a bunch of B.S.
That there have been runout issues and that the warranty obliges preemptive service are two entirely different things. Their offer really doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Granted, it would be nice if they'd just belly up the bar and make everyone feel good about everything. But they are under no obligation to do so. The warranty is to fix things that have broken. Not things that might.
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Seems riding both sides of the fence is where some like to be... but I have 25,000 reasons why they should put my mind at ease $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with no $$$$$$$ out of my pocket and "belly up"
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Unfortunately, no manufacturer will check something out for "piece of mind". I don't know if I would have it checked or not-would depend on how good the dealer is. It is not hard to do, but does take time. How would you know if they even measured the run out correctly? Most techs could take the cam cover and primary cover off, but there is probably only 1 tech at the dealer that could accurately measure runout. I agree, you shouldn't be thinking of having a problem (just riding), but problems do occur.
Everyone is different, but if the runout was checked (and I thought it was done correctly), I would agree to pay if it checked ok-just for the piece of mind. It wouldn't technically cost anything if you changed cams while they were in there. :)
Good luck.
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Seems riding both sides of the fence is where some like to be...
Not at all. At least not here. No hesitation in saying the MoCo has screwed up badly and often. But we can't bitch about them not meeting obligations when we don't meet our own.
If a dealer, of his own good graces and in the context of customer satisfaction, is willing to check it that is exemplary customer service. The warranty, however, is a contract. It's a contract that promises to fix what breaks (if we're lucky). It doesn't and never has promised to fix what hasn't broken yet.
We know that going in. Whining that we want more after the fact is really irrelevant to their obligation.
Were this earlier in the production year when a much greater number were seeing this issue the suggestion might have more weight. It's a problem that seems to have been addressed by the MoCo though. Any more we're only commonly hearing of top ends crapping out :oops: .
But no fence jumping here. Just recognizing obligations are where they are; even if we don't like them that way.
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It was suggested to me, that I should have the runout checked after the repair of the leaky cylinder. I talk to the dealer that did the repair and the they all looked at me like I was some foreign being.. "Never heard of that" "Don't know what your talking about" "Crank runout" :nixweiss:(Quote from the sacred book of MOCO)
Called MOCO to discuss this potential problem.. (All I want is to have it checked to have some Peace of mind on the bike) Basically the answer fomr MOCO was after talking to the so call Tech on hand Have your dealer check it, if there's a problem then it's on us. If there is no problem then the service call is on me >:(
What a bunch of B.S.
As others have already stated, H-D isn't obligated under their limited warranty to put your mind at ease by paying to check for potential problems. If you are looking for them to just step up and do the right thing, or even acknowledge the possibility of a problem, you are heading down a well traveled but ultimately unfruitful and frustrating road.
From what I've seen elsewhere, the highest rate of crank runout issues was supposedly on engines built in calendar year 2006 (up to mid December 2006). If your bike was built after that, I would suggest you just ride it like you stole it and figure the odds are in your favor. If the bike was one of the early built units, it might be a good idea to have it checked while it's still in warranty. If your dealer doesn't want to work with you on the labor charge for the runout check (after making a several thousand dollar profit on your bike), look for another dealership.
Jerry
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OK... Just a little frustrated here needed to vent... 5k and major engine work done... Do I have $25,000 garage decoration or something that I'm proud to show off and ride.. This is my first Harley and I loved the bike since I saw it at the IMS Feb 07.... I certainly don't want to insult anyone here but I see a lot of others on here choking out big k's on top of the big k's they already paid to make the bike right.. Am I missing something here????? My geen is hard to come by and I'm not so willing to give it up on something that should be right from the get go....
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OK... Just a little frustrated here needed to vent... 5k and major engine work done... Do I have $25,000 garage decoration or something that I'm proud to show off and ride.. This is my first Harley and I loved the bike since I saw it at the IMS Feb 07.... I certainly don't want to insult anyone here but I see a lot of others on here choking out big k's on top of the big k's they already paid to make the bike right.. Am I missing something here????? My geen is hard to come by and I'm not so willing to give it up on something that should be right from the get go....
FXSD, no one is saying it shouldn't be right from the get go. It should. Really. Just as the 04 chrome should have been. And the 06 paint. And the cranks and cylinders and head gaskets in the 110s.
No one will tell you that you're completely correct in wanting and needing it to be as good as it possibly can be. No one will argue the fact that Harley is also completely capable of dropping the ball.
All that's being said is that the self-satisfaction you're looking for is likely going to have to come from that same self's pocket. Because if it's not broke, or showing signs of imminent breakage, Harley is under no obligation to work on it for you free. It's hard enough sometimes getting them to do the things they actually are supposed to have to do. Things that would just make us feel better about it really are up to us.
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OK were not talking about paint or chrome were are talking about a potential problem that could result in bodily harm here.. what are the ramifications of someone hitting the blacktop because Harley is sweeping it under the carpet.... to me checking the crank runout should be part of the proticall for all the 110's that needed service for Head gaskets cylinder liners leaks etc..etc..etc this should be a cheaper fix to check than to have litigation against them????
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Unfortunately you are preaching to the choir. :( You can have it checked and if it's out of spec they (MoCo) will pay for it if it's not you pay for it.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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So I have been told........... I love your ride.. it's gorgeous(A little out of texted) Been wanting to do some up grades to mine but wondering if I'm throwing good $$ after bad$$$
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My motor upgrades were due to a well known (possible defect) in the cam chain tensioners. Never had a problem w/the ones on my bike, but I knew the potential existed. I swapped out cams and went w/gear drive to get rid of the chain/tensioners. While the cams were being changed it made since to add the oil pump and a few other things associated w/cam upgrade.
I noticed you mentioned this was your first Harley, and don't want you to get discouraged. However the possibility for issues that you're speaking of do exist. It's going to come down to whether you want to let the MoCo fix/attempt fixes if they occur or you go aftermarket and do it the way you want to. There are several builds going on by members of this board presently w/the 110 motors. Look and see what they have done, see if it fits your budget/desire and then go from there. Good luck in whatever you decide. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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It was suggested to me, that I should have the runout checked after the repair of the leaky cylinder. I talk to the dealer that did the repair and the they all looked at me like I was some foreign being.. "Never heard of that" "Don't know what your talking about" "Crank runout" :nixweiss:(Quote from the sacred book of MOCO)
Called MOCO to discuss this potential problem.. (All I want is to have it checked to have some Peace of mind on the bike) Basically the answer fomr MOCO was after talking to the so call Tech on hand Have your dealer check it, if there's a problem then it's on us. If there is no problem then the service call is on me >:(
What a bunch of B.S.
I agree, ride the bike like you stole it and stop worrying (it gets you no where)
only 2 things I worry about and they must contain 2 words "indictment" or "terminal" the other stuff is small potatoes
90% of the stuff you worry about never comes true anyway
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Remember, buying into the HD thing is like joining a country club.
Buying the bike is only the initiation fee, the rest is expected to be spent.
I beat the paint of of mine and fix them when I break them.
I have had HD since the early 80's.
Hang in there and enjoy the scoot. :2vrolijk_21:
Miker
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OK were not talking about paint or chrome were are talking about a potential problem that could result in bodily harm here.. what are the ramifications of someone hitting the blacktop because Harley is sweeping it under the carpet.... to me checking the crank runout should be part of the proticall for all the 110's that needed service for Head gaskets cylinder liners leaks etc..etc..etc this should be a cheaper fix to check than to have litigation against them????
No one around here will ever accuse me of being too easy on the MoCo, but in this case I have to agree, at least in a limited way, with their decision to only pay for the inspection if a defect is indeed found or if there are symptoms of a problem that would justify the teardown and inspection. Think of it this way, since this is not just a 110 issue (same crank in 96/103/110), they would be opening themselves up to tearing down every engine they produced once they set a precedent of paying to inspect some.
Of course, they could make things much easier on both the owner and the MoCo if they would just own up to the issue and publish a bulletin detailing what the problem was, what was done to correct it, and the date that the fix was implemented in production. In addition, offer extended coverage at no charge for those engines built prior to the "fix". Since this method has been used by many companies over the years, even including the MoCo as recently as 2000 with the TC cam bearing issue, they wouldn't be setting any new precedents by just doing the right thing here.
Jerry
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How can you verify the construction date of your bike?
I bought mine in Apr. of 2007... Is it the old crank?
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How can you verify the construction date of your bike?
I bought mine in Apr. of 2007... Is it the old crank?
Look on the sticker on the left side of the frame neck. There is a mfg date on that.
:indian_chief:
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How can you verify the construction date of your bike?
I bought mine in Apr. of 2007... Is it the old crank?
Look on the sticker on the left side of the frame neck. There is a mfg date on that.
:indian_chief:
You can also check the paperwork you received from the dealer; Harley normally includes a copy of the actual build sheet with the paperwork they send to the dealer, and in many cases the dealer passes that along. If they didn't, ask them. They may have it in their file. The build sheet will get you the actual day, while the decal normally only shows the month and year. This won't be the exact date the engine was assembled, but in this day of "just in time" inventory controls it shouldn't be off by more than a week or so.
Jerry
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I didn't know their crappy pressed stroker crank was changed at all on the '07's? :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
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I didn't know their crappy pressed stroker crank was changed at all on the '07's? :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
Bwaaaa Haaa haaaa :D
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Runout Fact. Motor 1 (2600 miles) crank way out of tolerance / unacceptable limits per the HD Wrench at the Dealer, motor sent back to MoCo, crated motor (replacement) with original VIN cross shipped to dealer to install. Motor 2 (2200 miles later) flywheel / crank out of tolerance so bad the cam plate could not be removed. Again, Dealer sent motor back to MoCo and another motor with original VIN was cross shipped to the dealer to install. Another Fact via my experience with the Runout, both times the crank chit the bed I was in BFE.
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Runout Fact. Motor 1 (2600 miles) crank way out of tolerance / unacceptable limits per the HD Wrench at the Dealer, motor sent back to MoCo, crated motor (replacement) with original VIN cross shipped to dealer to install. Motor 2 (2200 miles later) flywheel / crank out of tolerance so bad the cam plate could not be removed. Again, Dealer sent motor back to MoCo and another motor with original VIN was cross shipped to the dealer to install. Another Fact via my experience with the Runout, both times the crank chit the bed I was in BFE.
Sounds like you need to find better places to ride. :huepfenlol2:
:indian_chief:
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I didn't know their crappy pressed stroker crank was changed at all on the '07's? :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
Nope, still just pressed together, and still subject to an unspecified failure rate due to that fact and the nature of machining tolerances, moon status, etc.
Machining errors measured in the ten thousandths can cause a press fit assembly to fail. I'm guessing that this was the cause of the big increase in failures, as opposed to a basic design flaw. After all, the design goes back to the 1999 model and there hasn't been a big problem, even with heavily modified engines, until recently. The stroker version of the crank has been used since the 103's debuted, once again with no major increase in failure rate until recently. (Personally, I'd much rather have a one piece crank with two piece rods and bearings.)
Jerry
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Wow, I just purchased a new flhtcuse3, and had it torn apart to add goodies, I asked to be present durring the tear down, while there asked them for a dial indicator and if they could put it on the end of the flywheel. result was .004" I understand the spec to .002", still waiting on a dealer call back, at any rate the crank will have to come out.
I have seen this for along time for many years and models. And it should be fixed. Whille its out, have it dynamicly balanced too. if if you have to chip in to have it checked!
its worth it, the MOCO claims to balance them too now, so maybe if they find it needs balanced they should foot the bill?
More to follow!
Ride safe bro!
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Wow, I just purchased a new flhtcuse3, and had it torn apart to add goodies, I asked to be present durring the tear down, while there asked them for a dial indicator and if they could put it on the end of the flywheel. result was .004" I understand the spec to .002", still waiting on a dealer call back, at any rate the crank will have to come out.
I have seen this for along time for many years and models. And it should be fixed. Whille its out, have it dynamicly balanced too. if if you have to chip in to have it checked!
its worth it, the MOCO claims to balance them too now, so maybe if they find it needs balanced they should foot the bill?
More to follow!
Ride safe bro!
Well guess what, just to deal with many bikes like yours, HD fixed your problem without lifting a finger to anything but type. Your spec for acceptable runout was changed to .012"!!! Aren't you lucky! Your motor that just a few months ago needed replacement, is now magically fine!!! Just don't go throwing a gear drive cam in it! :o :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: >:( ;)
Hoist!
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Wow, I just purchased a new flhtcuse3, and had it torn apart to add goodies, I asked to be present durring the tear down, while there asked them for a dial indicator and if they could put it on the end of the flywheel. result was .004" I understand the spec to .002", still waiting on a dealer call back, at any rate the crank will have to come out.
I have seen this for along time for many years and models. And it should be fixed. Whille its out, have it dynamicly balanced too. if if you have to chip in to have it checked!
its worth it, the MOCO claims to balance them too now, so maybe if they find it needs balanced they should foot the bill?
More to follow!
Ride safe bro!
MOCO may claim a lot of things, but you believe them at your own peril. They use the same crank assembly in the 96, 103, and 110 with a large assortment of stock and SE pistons. They don't sell you a different part number crank based on the pistons you're using, you get the same crank as the next guy. Their balance is based on a "guesstimate" of the average reciprocating weight, and I doubt their tolerances for balance are any tighter than they are for runout. So if you want a precision crankshaft assembly, I'd suggest you find someone you can trust to build, true, and balance one for you.
If you search for TT324 (Tech Tip) you should find Harley's "new and improved" version of the crank runout specs. What you will find is that the new spec for runout, measured in the cases, is 0.012" max, not the 0.003" of years gone by. It seems that it is now Harley's philosophy that a wobbling shaft that rapidly wears out your oil pump is something that will probably only fail after the warranty period has expired, and is therefore your problem and not theirs.
Jerry