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[Puzzled]

In a move that appears to have been signposted by Harley-Davidson's October third quarter fiscals, Harley has parted company with its Senior VP/Chief Marketing Officer Mark Hans Richer.
At the time of writing it wasn't clear if Richer had received a better offer, had fallen on his sword, or had been invited by CEO Matt Levatich to pursue the next stage of his career elsewhere.
Either way, the biggest surprise about the announcement is not that it has happened at all, but that it didn't happen before Harley's Q3 announcement. Then again, Richer's divesting of share options some three months ago (he wasn't the only senior executive or board member to be doing so) may hint at an earlier decision and a tactically delayed announcement.
In a statement, CEO Matt Levatich said: "In his time with Harley-Davidson, Mark Hans was instrumental in achieving our transformational goals, including expanding our reach to both core and outreach customers, and we thank him for his contributions. The changes are an important piece of the company’s recently announced plan to build on its leadership position in the market and grow demand, with a key objective to lead in every market."
Those who have been voicing surprise at Richer's departure clearly had not read between the lines of Levatich's October statements, and his reference here concerning "expanding our reach to core customers" shouldn't be allowed to fool anyone.
The new marketing and four-point action plan that accompanied the quarterly financials contained a thinly veiled critique of the bottom-line effectiveness of Harley's marketing policies; hinting that for all the benefits that out-reach, crowd sourcing and exploitation of new customer demographics may have brought, and that "likes" and Twitter followers had generated, hadn't translated into sufficient metal shifted at a time when the company had allowed its core demographic and patronisingly referenced "legacy" customers to go shopping for competitive offerings.
If the company had managed to convincingly expand its reach to core customers, then they'd have left Polaris no demographic real estate to occupy with Indian.
Richer joined Harley from GM in 2007, while Jim Ziemer, a 40 year Motor Company veteran, was CEO and two years before Keith Wandell was hired to fire fight the company back into the world of the living. Since joining Harley, Richer had successfully consolidated his position, accruing seniority and a burgeoning portfolio of "reports."
His prior positions have now been shared out between two of the executives he had hired.
Sean Cummings (a very experienced international powersports and recreational products industry executive) moves up from Latin American market management to being Senior Vice President of "global demand." Cummings joined Harley in 2014.
Shelley Paxton steps up to become VP Marketing and Brand from her Digital Strategy Officer and VP Global Integrated Marketing and Planning roles, having joined Harley (from Omnicom Media) in 2010.
While Richer was surprisingly well regarded for the marketing job he'd done among Harley's dealers, the speculation will be that Levatich hasn't been minded to trust him with the job-loss funded additional emergency marketing spend that he unveiled last month.
Meanwhile, the scope of those job losses being used to pay for the emergency marketing spending has become apparent with 250 lay-offs of salaried staff expected by the end of 2015 and speculation already rife in the Milwaukee area that this will turn out to be just a first stage tranche of job losses.
These job losses come just two years after the company started to see the full $50 million annual benefit the 950 job cuts and benefits changes triggered by the new seven-year labor contract that was eventually agreed with Harley's unions in 2010. That "agreement" was only finalized after then CEO Keith Wandell had threatened that the company would consider leaving Wisconsin if the unions weren't prepared to play ball.
Having lost some 15 percent of its stock market capitalization within 24 hours of the October Q3 financial announcements, and having struggled to recover any more than around a third of that value by the time of the November 4th Richer announcement, as of 24 hours later Harley's stock was still moribund at around $50, still $6 south of its pre-Q3 announcement level.
Meanwhile Keith Wandell has added further to his portfolio of independent directorships with a seat on the board at Dover Corporation, the diverse 7.8 Bn turnover owner of PMI (Performance Motorsport Inc), itself the owning division of such powersports industry staples as Wiseco, JE Piston and X-Prox in The Netherlands.
Dover is currently seeing Group sales decline (-9 percent for the first nine months of the year), so are no doubt eyeing Wandell's turn-around expertise; as did his bankrupt former competitor, battery maker Exide Technologies, when they poached him as their new Chairman earlier this year - a role he accepted in tandem with bringing his trusty side-kick at Harley along for the ride - CFO John Olin, as a board member at Exide as the company prepared to exit from its bankruptcy protection filing.
Interestingly Harley-Davidson has so far been coy about the batteries it plans to use for its promised Project LiveWire E-Bike. Although Exide has always been a traditional lead-acid battery maker, they have been and are investing heavily in electric vehicle battery technology and research ... what price the LiveWire having Exides in it, if it does finally ever enter production?


 Posted by  DealerWorld     at  03:00

[sadunbar]

In a move that appears to have been signposted by Harley-Davidson's October third quarter fiscals, Harley has parted company with its Senior VP/Chief Marketing Officer Mark Hans Richer.

If the powers at the MOCO believe their sales problem is due to marketing deficiencies, they are truly misguided.  It doesn't bode well for our hopes of improved quality and reliability.  Not to mention customer service at both the factory and dealership level.   



I have bought my four wheel vehicles from the same salesman at the same dealership for about 20 years.  With each purchase, I tell the salesman he has yet to sell me a vehicle, and that my purchases are a direct result of the outstanding vehicle quality and outstanding service department of the dealership.  I think he thinks I'm kidding him, but trust me, I am not...

[Para Bellum]

If the powers at the MOCO believe their sales problem is due to marketing deficiencies, they are truly misguided.  It doesn't bode well for our hopes of improved quality and reliability.  Not to mention customer service at both the factory and dealership level.   

Well said.

Hard to tell if Levatich really believes it's a marketing problem, or if he just needed a scapegoat to blame for the downturn (more likely).  I see more ads for HD, in more places, than ever in my life, and most of them are appealing.  They don't do a thing to offset the poor quality, high cost (purchase, service, parts), monopoly policies (dealer only wants to use HD parts to replace inferior OEM parts), and lousy dealerships.

The CEO and his minions need to get out and ride so they can listen to what regular people have to deal with for their bikes.  Instead, they're just shooting blind.

[FLSTFI Dave]

I do not believe the issue has anything to do with Marketing. 

its core demographic and patronisingly referenced "legacy" customers to go shopping for competitive offerings.

I think the above sums it up.  Core or legacy customers are getting tired of the quality issues, cost increases for reduced quality or reduced content. 

Heck they do not even invest in bold new graphics for the bikes anymore.  11,15 and 16 CVO road glide has same paint design.  How many years has it been the same design on the limited?  four or five?

3rd year of production or the new boom head-unit which still has software issues. 

Motor Company Customer Service sucks and does not help.

I think HD core or legacy customers are hoping Indian will offer better quality, customer service or content.  Same with Polaris, more content and better reliability is the hope HD customers are having for them.

I know I have been looking.  I have also demoed BMW and Indian. 

[grc]

The actual product doesn't matter, it's all about selling it.  Don't forget, it was the American mind that decided to sell Pet Rocks, and it was other American minds that paid big bucks for a common rock.  People these days vilify Wall Street, but they should really be bashing Madison Avenue for all the lies, half-lies, and complete BS we have to wade through each and every day. 

Give me a truly world class product in terms of features, quality, and reliability, and I don't need a bunch of BS and lies to sell it.  Offer refrigerators to an Eskimo, however, and it takes a world class BS artist to complete the sale.  Harley is just looking for a better BS artist.

Jerry

[iski]

Several friends have sold their Harleys.  New hobby, got tired of riding, did not want to spend $2-5k on a new bike or the next bike to make it right for them.  Getting older plays a role, as well as the economy which is ok/sideways/yet down in 1 important area - income. The new HD bikes are not perceived by many ex-owners or current owners as being worth it.  Cost/benefit does not pan out.  Shoddy quality & an inability to fix stuff like a spiffy Infotainment system in a reasonable time frame have more than a few shaking their heads "not yet" about that "next new bike."  Why go there when you have one you spent $$ on to make it "right" is the question?

Can a marketing campaign address all that & work wonders?  No.  Will a new marketing campaign sell more bikes?  Probably.  Why?  People like to be told stuff, marketing figures out what they like to be told.  Youth, sex appeal, looking cool, lemming strategy, iconoclast strategy - lots of angles.  HD needs newbie riders more than anything. Newbies do not have the knowledge of the product, they find out after they buy one all the things they need.  Some stay bone stock but from what I see not that many. Delayed sticker shock.

My guess is HD sales will be eroded by competition from companies like Polaris more than the metrics in the cruiser category.  My guess is HD will continue to concentrate on the Touring models for the older current riders and offer new lighter weight stuff for the perceived new-to-HD riders.  Sales this year will be down, they have already said that. 

HD rode up with the Dot.com boom of the 90s and the good economy.  That boom crashed in the late 90s but the residual effect for HD - folks with $$ to spend on toys - did not really crater until their sales drop about 8 or so years ago.  The buyers might be there, but they are spending their money on stuff that is not toys or other toys, or they are looking for better paying jobs which are not there.

HD continues on.  Will be interesting to see if they maintain market share.

[JCZ]

They don't need a marketing executive.....they need a true quality control person.  Take care of the quality control and the rest will take care of itself. 

[ultrarider123]

My two cents:  The days of Harley riders putting up with the brand just to keep the company going or being able to say "I own a hog/Harley/hawg, not just this T-Shirt" are further and further behind us. 

The 50s and 60s brought us rough, tough Harley riders and a decent product. 

The 70s and early 80s brought us "I don't care what I have to do to make this piece of crap run, I'm riding my AMF Harley" type of rider.  HD sales tanked because of poorer and poorer quality during this time frame and because of new, better made, better running offerings (sounds familiar, don't it?). 

The mid-late 80s, 90s and early 2000 actually were fairly decent years for Harley and folks that rode them.  Yes, there were problems as there have been all through the MoCo existence but the overall "feeling" was good from a rider and product point of view.

Today the MoCo continues to buy into the 90s idea that they can still sell whatever they put in the showrooms like they did 20 years earlier.  Their belief is people want a Harley, poor quality/customer service/high priced or not.  Such is no longer the case with quality, price and customer service top of the list sending folks to other, "perceived better" offerings.

Cut production, increase quality control and customer service and keep a lid on the price increases and people will come back to Harley.  The MoCO doesn't need to waste the resources in advertising/marketing the Harley brand as the best, it needs to spend that money proving it .

When word of mouth from actual owners/riders changes direction, people will take notice

[sadunbar]

They don't need a marketing executive.....they need a true quality control person.  Take care of the quality control and the rest will take care of itself. 

Quality control - yes.  But more important is engineering and product development. 

I believe there are more than a few components that are manufactured and installed exactly as designed, but still fail on a regular basis.  Lifters and compensators come to mind... 

That said:

I don't think lifters necessary fail because of the lifter design, but rather they fail due to larger overall design failings of the valve train and basic oiling of the current twin cam. 

And, compensators, I believe, fail not only due to being a flawed compensator design, but in the bigger picture, they fail because of the overall design of the "cruise drive" which caused the need for the current compensator.

Just two large examples - and there are many others.

[Fired00d]

Like many have stated quality control definitely is a problem/concern but one other thing that has turned my taste negatively at the dealer level (and partly controlled by MoCo) is they are getting rid of all the "Mom/Pop dealers". All the dealerships IMO are turning into "Super Walmart's" (not that I have any issues w/"Super Walmart's" I go there get what I want and get the hell out )... I don't have as much time owning/riding H-D's (started in late 90's, before that was "rice rockets"), but when I did start my local dealership was still what one would consider a "Mom/Pop" dealership (small store in a strip mall). It was owned by a rider that was there on a regular basis, he knew all his customers on a first name basis, would shoot the chit w/you, ride with, and party with you. He eventually opened up a big box ("Super Walmart") location on a major interstate but was still there on a daily basis, and kept the same philosophy until he sold the dealership. Now you have owners of dealerships that own multiple locations (with little to no personal contact with some/any of them), you have dealerships owned by those that have/own auto dealerships that don't ride (nor give a chit about riding).... I don't have anything against auto dealers but I think they (some) have the attitude because of the volume of sales compared to volume of motorcycle sales they don't have to provide a personal customer service experience because there will be many others beating down the door to buy the product (not so the case as H-D is currently seeing w/the drop in sales).

Lastly I would like to add when I got involved w/H-D's I would visit the dealership on a (sometimes) weekly basis... just stop in, shoot the chit, see what was new, etc., etc. During those visits it felt like visiting friends/family... I was warmly greeted (by name), had/went out to lunch w/the employees, rode with them, etc., etc. They knew the product and didn't get the deer in the headlight look if you asked them something. Now days w/the big box stores when you go in it seems like there is always new employees, they don't know you, or know the product. I think in the last several years I've probably been to a dealership less than 5 times (if that many). All my service is done by an independent, I try to buy/use aftermarket parts as much as possible, and no longer stop at dealerships to buy t-shirts if/when I'm travelling. I have enough H-D t-shirts already and don't feel compelled to buy more to provide them free advertising.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[ultrafxr]

Quality control - yes.  But more important is engineering and product development. 

I believe there are more than a few components that are manufactured and installed exactly as designed, but still fail on a regular basis.  Lifters and compensators come to mind... 

That said:

I don't think lifters necessary fail because of the lifter design, but rather they fail due to larger overall design failings of the valve train and basic oiling of the current twin cam. 

And, compensators, I believe, fail not only due to being a flawed compensator design, but in the bigger picture, they fail because of the overall design of the "cruise drive" which caused the need for the current compensator.

Just two large examples - and there are many others.

Spot on Scott.  The best procedures followed by the best assemblers still yields junk if the design and/or parts are not capable of holding up under normal conditions. 

[skycat]

Totally agree with all comments, Everyone that sees my Street glide just loves it and pass on comments like WOW it looks beautiful.
Well little do they know all the crap we have to deal with, trying to keep a 25 year old design running in 2015 they require a lot of hands on very often, not really a daily ride.

My hart is saying get another Harley, but my brain and my wife are saying no way. 

Could be Indian time, there new engine is way ahead of the old Harley design just need to change the guards.   

[Road Dad]

Never in the history has HD been at the level of great or even good quality, or design. It's always been subpar and my bet is that it is getting better. You can compare to American cars. Been subpar for most of their history. It's in the last few years they have gotten better. Especially Ford have done a great job. (I don't own a Ford, never had).

HD sell a "life style" and that is why they get paid so much for each unit. I own many different brand bikes and I like my HD but I know what it is and what it is not. I will not by another CVO after I get rid of this one but I will probably buy another HD some time.

Now getting back to marketing......... Communication is only a small part of marketing. Market intelligence and strategy is a much bigger and more important part of the job. If you get the strat part wrong Everything behind it will be a struggle.

[Cat Eye]

Harley is a victim of their own success.  Their level of integration with after-sale upgrades and add-on's are un-parallel.

Although we all know it not perfect... the administration of the parts catalog alone is huge....when considering a bike or part design change.... Marketing develops a business model that takes into account both forward and backward compatibility issues and how this might effect the business and make recommendations. That's Marketing...not hanging banner at a bike rally---that promotion.  Which is all I think Indian has done.

Believe it or not, Harley in one of the best well managed corporations in the world.  Are they perfect...no...there is always room for improvement. 

But when you look at the whole package...HD Motorcycles, HD upgrades, HD attire, DH dealer network, and HD aftermarket stuff....MOCO is impressive and can trade profit for market share anytime they want to.

Got to go now.... need to change my compensator

[FLSTFI Dave]

Cut production, increase quality control and customer service and keep a lid on the price increases and people will come back to Harley.  The MoCO doesn't need to waste the resources in advertising/marketing the Harley brand as the best, it needs to spend that money proving it .

When word of mouth from actual owners/riders changes direction, people will take notice

That sums it up pretty well in my opinion. 

[Harley Guy]

Believe it or not, Harley in one of the best well managed corporations in the world.  Are they perfect...no...there is always room for improvement. 

But when you look at the whole package...HD Motorcycles, HD upgrades, HD attire, DH dealer network, and HD aftermarket stuff....MOCO is impressive and can trade profit for market share anytime they want to.

Got to go now.... need to change my compensator

Well said and I agree.
.

[mark]

It's not anything HD has done...or not done that caused their stock value to slip.  They are producing a product that appealed to baby boomers, and HD's resurgence happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the boomers peak wealth.  Those riders are now aging away, living on retirement incomes, facing health issues, etc. - all the things that cause us not to buy a new bike, accessories, or to quit riding altogether.  Want anecdotal proof: go to a state HOG rally and notice how many trikes you see.  How many attendees are younger than 50?

The boomers were the largest generation and Gen X and Gen Y simply are not big enough to replace us.  What HD is experiencing now is the new normal.  Changing the head of marketing will not overcome demographics.

[Mutant]

I very much agree with CAT EYE. At the end of the day MOCO is still the best option out there, IMHO. Not perfect, who is. I looked at Indian and Victory but I realized that if I needed service or assistance it would not be near by, especially on a trip. Most of those other brands cannot access parts within a "near by" dealer network as we can.

Quality - When I looked closely at the shift linkage, trim, pegs, clutch cable and mechanisms and frame members, Harley was more robust and had a better finish and attention to detail. Not that anything didn't function or was dangerous, stamped metal just isn't as appealing to me.

Not many warranty accessories for a year and has large selections on hand. The huge flexibility of direct mods to the BMS and EMS is a huge blessing. The "fat book" - who else has that? All of the bikes run from the factory, I am a victim of my own imagination.  Plug and Play Accessories - More Chrome - More Horsepower, Oh My!

Let's hope the changes in Management will address concerns and improve the product.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Quality - When I looked closely at the shift linkage, trim, pegs, clutch cable and mechanisms and frame members, Harley was more robust and had a better finish and attention to detail. Not that anything didn't function or was dangerous, stamped metal just isn't as appealing to me.

Quality and shift linkage do not belong in the same sentence.  Out west last summer, a friends 13 Road Glide with 19xxx miles on it had the shift linkage fails, all the splines stripped out on the arm side of the shaft.  Another Friend has his fail on a 14 CVO Limited, with 18xxx miles on the bike.  My 15 SERGU had the splines fail on the arm side also, with 22xxx on the bike.  So they may look nice, but sure do not last. 

This is not the first Harley I have had this fail on.

Lifters, well I have had them fail on two CVO's, a 09 and a 12.  A friend had them fail with 20,5xx on his 14 CVO limited while we were out west, so that huge dealer network sure is needed.

It's not anything HD has done...or not done that caused their stock value to slip.  They are producing a product that appealed to baby boomers, and HD's resurgence happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the boomers peak wealth.  Those riders are now aging away, living on retirement incomes, facing health issues, etc. - all the things that cause us not to buy a new bike, accessories, or to quit riding altogether.  Want anecdotal proof: go to a state HOG rally and notice how many trikes you see.  How many attendees are younger than 50?

The boomers were the largest generation and Gen X and Gen Y simply are not big enough to replace us.  What HD is experiencing now is the new normal.  Changing the head of marketing will not overcome demographics.

I know many riding HD in their 40's and several in their 30's.  They can't take time off to go to a HOG rally.  Many would rather use their vacation for Daytona, Sturgis or such.

Me I am 52.  I have been buying CVO's since 09, 4 to be exact, along with 4 Harleys for my wife since 09.  I will be on a two wheel bike for many more years.  Yet I am the customer they are pushing away with the quality issues. 

Harley is my favorite.  That said the price keeps going up, since 09 and the quality going down, and the product cheapened.  Use to be CVO got a new paint design and color each year.  I think its five years for the same design on the CVO limited, I know it's 3 years on the SERGU.  Heck even the colors are a repeat. 

Lets see, Lifter fail on two of the above bikes, shift linkages on 2 of the above bikes.  Regulator on one of the bikes, a stator on one of the bikes.  All these were on less than two year old bikes.

BMW or Goldwing keeps looking better and better for reliability and quality even though the style sure is not there.

[RayG]

Most everyone has made allot of sense as to where the MOCO and it's market is at this point in time.  When I purchased my 08 SERK I was 54, health & and finances were much better than they are right now.  Like many others as I age I have had to decrease my riding time and decrease my spending so a CVO replacement will not happen in this life time.  I have however improved my mechanical ability, not something I had planned but had to do out of necessity.  It started with fluid changes and has escalated to a jack, lift and a No Mar tire machine because I just could not handle the workmanship and prices from the dealer.  If I was younger and things were differently financially I still would not purchase another Harley, but that does not mean the next machine will be perfect just a chance of doing less maintenance than I had to learn.  I have put way to many new parts on a 08 just to reach 85,000 miles.  We all have different personal circumstances and I would go in a different direction given the opportunity.  I have to say there may never be another bike that has the eye appeal that the Harley has but once I'm on the road I'm looking to be able to be able to ride without concern of some kind of failure.  The great part of this is we all have a choice.   

[Road Dad]

I in no way think HD is the best alternative out there. Just wanted to comment that they are doing better and are working in process improvements.

If I only could have one bike there is no way it would be a Harley.   

[willyB]

Any company not improving their product, developing new products, relying on an aging demographic, not being innovative and standing only on their "history" is simply a company that is on the long slow downhill train to failure.

I wonder how the marketplace would react to a Harley Davidson Classic line for the old rich demographic that plays dress up in cool black leather and a HD Modern line for the riders that prefer HP over TQ, Sport over Cruise, Technology over History.

Imagine a VRod engine in a slim/sporting style Streetglide.

[phato1]

Any company not improving their product, developing new products, relying on an aging demographic, not being innovative and standing only on their "history" is simply a company that is on the long slow downhill train to failure.

I wonder how the marketplace would react to a Harley Davidson Classic line for the old rich demographic that plays dress up in cool black leather and a HD Modern line for the riders that prefer HP over TQ, Sport over Cruise, Technology over History.

Imagine a VRod engine in a slim/sporting style Streetglide.

They sorta tried that with Buell and just when things were looking promising as far as a high HP sport bike that worked well they pulled the plug. Perhaps because of Eric Buell deciding to work with another company to develop the powerplant and stop using the Sportster based engine???

And they did own MV Agusta for while, unfortunately HD didn't really know what to do with that brand... HD spent a bunch of money on tooling and process improvements only to end up selling the company. If I remember right they actually sold it at a loss back to one of the original founders of MV.

Gives me the impression that HD'S heart really isn't in it when it comes to venturing outside their "core" demographic. Which is all us  older guys wearing the cool looking leather jackets.

[skycat]

Whats so annoying is we have paid a ton of money for a upmarket motorcycle that does not deliver, the CVO of today is not the CVO of old.
My 2015 SG has this imitation carbon fiber stuck all over the place and after 1600km is starting to come unstuck  . Along with all the loose bolts and the poor paint quality plus all the other issues we all know about.

I am not surprised that even the Harley faithful are secretly annoyed.

So what do we do ? My protest is simple, i will NOT purchase another new Harley Davidson ever.. 
Yes i know that you only see and read about unhappy owners on line, hardly ever about happy owners.
But i do know that my good old 2003 lowrider has never had any issues from day 1, my 2015 SG the list keeps growing and its all about cutting costs and poor quality.
I still enjoy riding the bike its just these annoying things that sour the taste of Harley ownership. sorry for the rant..

[Road Dad]

Old topic I know but I had dinner with Keith Wandell tonight. (He retired from Harley in May last year). It was very interesting and gave me some good insight in to Harley.

Not in a big event. Just Keith, myself and a few other "corporate people" at the table.

[bigchuck]

Old topic I know but I had dinner with Keith Wandell tonight. (He retired from Harley in May last year). It was very interesting and gave me some good insight in to Harley.

Not in a big event. Just Keith, myself and a few other "corporate people" at the table.

So are you going to share some of that insight or are you just wanting to keep this old thread alive for some reason?

[2soaper]

I'm not not really one to complain but I'll to agree to certain extent, for the price of a CVO there quality control has been somewhat poor. I have had couple recalls which I had to find on my own research, the paint clear coat is very soft, gas pumping out of fill port on the tank and flooding over a hot engine (Harley never responded to those incidence's) and the latest is what looks like lacquer on the inside of my gauges.  Kinda of disappointing though I'll say my dealer has been very good about taking care of things.

[greglyon]

Part of the HD marketing problem is the aging of their customer base but the bigger problem is a boring product lineup.  HD gives the old saying "same ole same ole" new meaning.  Being true to your roots doesn't mean not giving the customer new choices.
How many different ways can you put together a soft tail?  It's like the old GM distinguishing their cars by the trim. 

If HD introduced exciting new bikes and not just blacked out this and that, some of the old folks would look hard and they might even attract some newbies! 

[Para Bellum]

So are you going to share some of that insight or are you just wanting to keep this old thread alive for some reason? bragging?

[bigchuck]

Wandell would have great insight on how to raise profit margin. That's if you don't mind laying off workers, while speeding up assembly and not worrying about quality control.

[Para Bellum]

Wandell would have great insight on how to raise profit margin. That's if you don't mind laying off workers, while speeding up assembly and not worrying about quality control.

He sure has that technique dialed in.

[moscooter]

 
No argument from me regarding many of the quality concerns/problems.  But I can relate that the level of enthusiasm and rider support seems to be remaining quite strong if Rally attendance is a factor and matters.

Just returning from So. Florida pulling my bass boat on Monday and coming up I-95,  I tried to stop at Rossmeyers H.D. to get another Harley cap like one I already have that is about worn out.  The Daytona Bike Week crowd was out in force, the parking lots were jammed and I couldn't get closer than about a half mile away........so never got into the place.  I've been to many Daytona Bike Weeks in past years,  and the crowds I saw Monday were as strong or stronger than ever.

Maybe they're not buying new rides,  but they were hanging around Rossmeyers by the thousands......

[CVOStreetglide]

No argument from me regarding many of the quality concerns/problems.  But I can relate that the level of enthusiasm and rider support seems to be remaining quite strong if Rally attendance is a factor and matters.

Just returning from So. Florida pulling my bass boat on Monday and coming up I-95,  I tried to stop at Rossmeyers H.D. to get another Harley cap like one I already have that is about worn out.  The Daytona Bike Week crowd was out in force, the parking lots were jammed and I couldn't get closer than about a half mile away........so never got into the place.  I've been to many Daytona Bike Weeks in past years,  and the crowds I saw Monday were as strong or stronger than ever.

Maybe they're not buying new rides,  but they were hanging around Rossmeyers by the thousands......

When we stayed at Destination Daytona during the first week they were selling bikes like crazy.

CVO's new and used were flying out the door.  A New Street Glide Special that had upgraded CVO Wheels and the custom paint job that is in the picture in the parts catalogue was out on the floor. We asked what they were asking for it and were told $48k.  The quick math indicated that the price was $10-$12k over. so we walked of shakng our heads. Thirty minutes later when we went by it was gone/sold.  The same was true of several CVO and standard Road Glides and Street Glides that only had custom pin striping done. They added $1,000- $3,000 to the price and virtually all of them were gone in 24 hours. My guess is that in the first week alone they sold 500 motorcycles.

The lines for clothing and accessories were out the door all day long every day.

So, business was good....very good.

[iski]

When we stayed at Destinatin Daytona during the first week they were selling bikes like crazy.

CVO's new and used were flying out the door.  A New Street Glide Special that had upgraded Cvo Wheels and the custom paint job that is in the picture in the parts catalogue was out on the floor. We asked what they were asking for it and were told $48k.  The quick math indicated that the price was $10-$12k over. so we walked of shakng our heads. Thirty minutes later when we went by it was gone/sold.  The same was true of several CVOand standard Road Glides and Street Glides that only had custom pin striping done. They added $1,000- $3,000 to the price and virtually all of them were gone in 24 hours. My guess is that in the first week alone they sold 500 motorcycles.

The lines for clothing and accessories were out the door all day long every day.

So, business was goood....very good.

We were there over both weekends.  Saw a lot of new bikes at DD the first weekend that were no longer there the second.  Long lines to buy stuff in the store.  Looked like more people were spending money this bike week.

This shop has a reputation for selling bikes at inflated, ridiculous prices. Saw this from the very beginning.  Appears some do not price or comparison shop, they impulse buy even on $40k+ purchases.  Other Florida stores are discounting new bikes to sell them.

During bike week there is a sort of herd mentality for a lot of the folks there, that is strange to me at least.

Indian had a huge presence at the rally, saw a lot more Indians on the road than ever before too.

[RGlideKid]

We can only hope that someone...anyone...from the MoCo that truly has some major pull will read this thread.
But on the other hand, what good would it really do? 
Harley seems to be suffering from the same disease that many American based companies have.  It's easier to let a guy go than to address the real issues.  Maybe this marketing guy saw the truth of what needed to happen at Harley and left the company on his own.  If I was at the top of the marketing food chain and Harley, I wouldn't want to work for them, especially if he knows what's wrong with the company.  It's not his job to fix the problems, only to 'sell more product'...a product that's becoming increasingly less admired over time.

Everyone who had contributed to this thread had valid and smart points.  But we're singing to the choir, while the leaders of the Harley church are on the outside looking for a silver bullet but unwilling to make the necessary hard-line changes, because that's admitting there are real problems inside the church...if you know what I mean.

[TN]

What happened to MOCO did not take place overnight. They have had some other brands that were cutting edge compared to the latest and greatest they offer now, MV Augusta, Buell. The livewire would be interesting but I don't look for it to be in production anytime soon. 

As far as the marketing on there motor clothes goes, it's second to none.


TN

[Royalroadie]

If Harley does not respond by coming out with ground breaking products they will end up just like Kodak.  Kodak invented the digital camera but all the department leaders where to afraid to rock the boat and develope this new tech called digital.  The old fashioned film was just too profitable at the time to develop digital products.  Now as they slowly emerge from bankruptcy they are a mere shadow of what they where.