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Author Topic: Spark Knock  (Read 8798 times)

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70_GTX

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Spark Knock
« on: May 15, 2005, 08:09:20 PM »

I know not many of you have left your engines completely stock but I have. I haven't even changed the exhaust. I'm getting great gas mileage, it runs terrific,and the wife likes hearing the sound system. The problem is, I'm hearing what seems to be spark knock. It doesn't even seem to have to be under any type of load. I'm using strictly 93 octane gas and have used many different brands. I just got back from an 1800 mile trip and purchased gas at many different locations. The farther away from 2000 RPM, the less likely it is to occer. Did any of you experience this before you made changes? I now have over 3000 miles on the bike. Should I risk taking it to the dealer and have them ruin some of the things that I am now enjoying ? I really don't want to blend race gas in a stock engine. Should I be worried ?
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shovelhead71

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2005, 09:17:35 PM »

70 GTX I guess a couple other questions are in order per your post - you state 2,000 rpms is this occuring at lower rpm's and what speed - is this on a long run and starts pinging - or after lights/stopping heating situations - give us a little more clue to details and there is a fantastic group here to come to some conclusions to your situation - and you also state your are ridign 2 up - so is this under a possible "lugging" situation ??
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MObe

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2005, 09:21:27 PM »

I've had the same problem with mine since it was new. What you hear, if it's like mine is the bike getting into detonation and then backing the timing off. You can hear it spark knock before the sensor causes the ecm to dial the timing back.
 I noticed that mine will not do it noticeably unless the ambient temp is around 70F.
I put on a race tuner and downloaded the stage one load and this seems to help some but has not stopped it entirely. I plan to put the race tuner in data acquisition mode soon and see exactly whats happening and when.
 I took the bike to the dealer twice and was told that there is no spark knock. Although they didn't offer any further explaination.
 I had one guy on the tech talk board tell me that it was a loose compensator nut. That was 3000 miles ago. So I'm thinkig no on the loose compensator nut. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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MObe

MObe

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2005, 09:23:52 PM »

I just saw shovelhead71's post. On mine I have had it occur from 1800 through 4000, and yes it does do it worse if I have been riding around town and through a lot of stops.
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MObe

Twolanerider

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2005, 09:36:10 PM »

I had the sounds of detonation on mine on the red bike in comparable circumstances.  The sound is a pretty obvious one no matter what the shop might say.  On the red bike, however, it almost completely went away when the air cleaner got changed and Stage I chip was downloaded in to the bike.  It then did completely go away when the Power Commander got dyno tuned.
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70_GTX

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2005, 09:45:16 PM »

Yeah, It happens more when the ambient temperature is higher or if I've been caught in traffic for a while. But, It will happen out on the highway at 60 MPH and a slight roll on the throttle. Just a few rattles of detonation. Still, is it something that will eventually shorten engine life ?
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Twolanerider

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2005, 09:47:15 PM »

Quote
Yeah, It happens more when the ambient temperature is higher or if I've been caught in traffic for a while. But, It will happen out on the highway at 60 MPH and a slight roll on the throttle. Just a few rattles of detonation. Still, is it something that will eventually shorten engine life ?



Speaking very generally; detonation is never a good thing.  It might not be terribly terribly bad.  But it's never good.
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shovelhead71

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2005, 09:49:49 PM »

just my opinion but is is assanine to have the stock air filter system on this 103 - just is not enough air - like running a marathon with all your orifices plugged - you just ain;t gonna get enough air to breath - gotta get air from somewhere to make this critter run properly and a potential problem could occur @overheat in low rpm;s - lugging - only way to avoid is just pull to side of road and shut it off and let er cool down when put in these conditions - like Atlanta traffic - or take the shoulder to keep moving  [smiley=laugh.gif]
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MObe

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2005, 09:56:59 PM »

  Mine as the accessory screamin eagle air filter kit. Didn't make any difference at all as far as detonation goes, but does have more surface area than stock, which is good thing. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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spydglide

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2005, 10:01:01 PM »

Reckon it's unique to the Teal SEEG's?    [smiley=nixweiss.gif]         spyder
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110tHunDer

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2005, 10:20:41 PM »

Uh, it might be going a little bit far to say using the stock air box is asinine, especially in case that's not causing the pinging.  On my previous bike, a 2002 EG Classic, I had the Stage I done to it and it would ping under a load fairly hard on a hot day even if you down-shifted to get the rpm's up.  The SEEG, on the other hand, with the same modifications, has never pinged one time that I'm aware of, so maybe some bikes are more prone to this that others.  GTX, you specifically mention the 2,000 rpm mark.  That's lugging the motor plain and simple.  If that the range where you're experiencing the problem, try shifting down a gear and see what happens.

I talked with the service manager at my dealer a few differnt times about this on my '02.  He said not to worry as long as it was not a constant ping.  I agree, pinging is not a "good" thing, but if it is intermittent and the electronics are taking care of it once it starts, it may not be worth persuing.
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jimp

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2005, 10:39:22 PM »

I have noticed this problem but it goes away with 100 octane no-lead, and the motor runs cooler.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 10:42:05 PM by jimp »
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70_GTX

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2005, 10:45:47 PM »

Thanks for everyone's input. My local dealership has a good saleman but questionable shop. My 01 Road King Classic had the stage one and air cleaner and Vance and Hines. The SEEG runs so much better and gets better gas mileage. The shop has no dyno or anyone capable of running one. That is the main reason I am leery of having them mess with it. I will ask them about it but I don't expect much from them.
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OTIS

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2005, 11:08:11 PM »

It could the motor is hot. The owners manua  l for my Road Glide says not to run lowers
over 50 degres.

                                                      OTIS
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Coolbreeze

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Re:  Spark Knock
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2005, 05:33:22 PM »

I agree with most all of what went prior to my post, except the 2k rpm being in the lugging it range, and that I almost agree with.  If you get the noise starting at 2k and up, with a real gentle throttle, (no lugging), that's an issue.  Obviously you don't want to grab a big handful of throttle at that rpm in a higher gear...  yada yada yada...   I would try sticking a cooler plug in it, (say two steps cooler), and see if the noise changes.  (You can get the plugs at the local auto store for about a buck and a half and thier the same thing harley will sell ya for 8...)

The part number for an autolite plug on the stock heat range should be an Autolite 4164...  take it down two heat ranges and buy a pair of 4162's and see how they sound...   (It helped mine a little)

If the noise doesn't change, maybe youre just one of the lucky one's with noisy pistons like me!   [smiley=smoking.gif]
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