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[SilverDawg]

I just read through the intake/exhaust threads and I am beginning to get a little more educated.  I know exhaust selection is very subjective and each of us has an idea on how we want our bikes to look and perform.  Let me give you some background and then perhaps some of you more learned folks can steer me in the right direction.

Here is the background:

*Have FLHRSE3 on order due in February
 *I live in Texas where, as you know, the summer can be very hot
 *I ride about 5-7K miles per year, quite a bit of it in the summer
 
Here are some additional facts that may help in the choice of exhaust systems:

*If I must choose, I would prefer increased torque vs. a higher top end.
*One of my main concerns, is to keep the bike running cooler in our hot Texas summers.  Do not    want to damage the engine due to excessive heat  (As I have read many threads here, this seems to be a big concern with the stock set up!)
* I currently run V & H big shot longs on my Heritage.  Love them, but for the CVO, maybe just a tad bit quieter.  I believe in the loud pipes theory!
* At this point in time, It appears at least I will need a SERT, K & N filter, to get started.
* My choices, based on very limited information, are at this time either true duals from Rinehart or the V & H set up.

Now, finally, to the questions.

1) Should I do any exhaust upgrades at delivery or after the 1000 mile service? (My dealer for this CVO is about 100 miles away. He was the only one willing to sell at MSRP and he has a great reputation for service from my buddy who has purchased 2 bikes from him, and he lives in the same area as I do)

2) Opinions on the two systems I mention above  (pros and cons please)

3) Any other essential items to get done at delivery (besides a diligent inspection of the paint)?

As I stated above, I am more concerned about better torque and lower operating temps that top end speed.  I plan on keeping this baby for a long time. 8-)

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Hoist!]

I just read through the intake/exhaust threads and I am beginning to get a little more educated.  I know exhaust selection is very subjective and each of us has an idea on how we want our bikes to look and perform.  Let me give you some background and then perhaps some of you more learned folks can steer me in the right direction.

Here is the background:

*Have FLHRSE3 on order due in February
 *I live in Texas where, as you know, the summer can be very hot
 *I ride about 5-7K miles per year, quite a bit of it in the summer
 
Here are some additional facts that may help in the choice of exhaust systems:

*If I must choose, I would prefer increased torque vs. a higher top end.
*One of my main concerns, is to keep the bike running cooler in our hot Texas summers.  Do not    want to damage the engine due to excessive heat  (As I have read many threads here, this seems to be a big concern with the stock set up!)
* I currently run V & H big shot longs on my Heritage.  Love them, but for the CVO, maybe just a tad bit quieter.  I believe in the loud pipes theory!
* At this point in time, It appears at least I will need a SERT, K & N filter, to get started.
* My choices, based on very limited information, are at this time either true duals from Rinehart or the V & H set up.

Now, finally, to the questions.

1) Should I do any exhaust upgrades at delivery or after the 1000 mile service? (My dealer for this CVO is about 100 miles away. He was the only one willing to sell at MSRP and he has a great reputation for service from my buddy who has purchased 2 bikes from him, and he lives in the same area as I do)

2) Opinions on the two systems I mention above  (pros and cons please)

3) Any other essential items to get done at delivery (besides a diligent inspection of the paint)?

As I stated above, I am more concerned about better torque and lower operating temps that top end speed.  I plan on keeping this baby for a long time. 8-)

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi Cobalt. I too have a new SERK coming in 17 days now. Since everyone's been nice enough to put up with similar questions from me the past two months, I'll try to summarize my findings and conclusions. I ve made my decisions based on this research, but except for listening to exhaust systems on TC 88 & 95's, I haven't tried them personally.

The '07 SERK has a SE open-back air cleaner as stock. The K&N flows slightly better and is a better filter, so that's a no-brainer.

The heat generated appears mostly to be caused by the stock, lean running operating maps that HD must work with to comply with EPA. Changing/correcting this component will void your 2 Year Warranty. You must know the dealer and make sure he'll Guarantee your bike personally, if you care about your engine warranty. That being said, the solution is to get the motor to run proper A/F ratios across the entire RPM range. There appears to be two ways of accomplishing this.

One is to install something to "correct" the bike's stock ECM, such as SERT, PC (Power Commander). The SERT is a HD software package that has "maps" downloaded for various component upgrades. This system is burned into your ECM permanently and HD has a record of it. It leaves a permant record that is picked up by HD's Digital Technician at any dealer. Second is the PC type, which physically installs with you ECM. Any corrections are made to the PC, not your ECM. So it does not leave any trace of these corrections once removed. Both of these systems require Dyno Tuning for optimum mapping.

Second is to replace the ECM completely. There are two ECM systems I'm aware of, but the most popular seems to be the ThunderMax with AutoTune. This system not only replaces the ECM, but provides wide-band, closed-loop monitoring and control. It will continuously self-adjust itself, based on sensor readings, for the optimum mapping, without the need to Dyno Tune. This definitely complicates warranty even further.

There are two ways of replacing the dual exhaust system (besides 2>1's).

Of the two exhaust systems mentioned, the RH 's are louder. They also use their own headpipes with the muffler so you must use them as True-Duals, eliminating the stock headpipe and crossover system. This will generally yield less low/mid-range power/tq and better top end.

The V&H slip-ons can be used with stock headpipes or V&H True-Dual headpipes. With these, you can try the mufflers with the stock headpipes and change them later, if desired or necessary. Depending on muffler selection, the sound varies. RH makes a stock size slip-on system as well.

The TDs should offer less heat, but I'm not convinced how much yet, providing the ECM mod is done. That's what I'd like to find out, so as not to give up any low/mid-range power with the stock SERK cams set-up.

I believe in doing these mods right away so as not to subject my engine to factory set up incorrect operating conditions and excess heat.

Like you said, it's all saubjective, so I'm trying to explain the differences so you can try to decide on your own what's best for you. There are experts here that could perhaps provide you with more detatiled technical descriptions if necessary.

Do your research so you'll be ready when that new SERK arrives in Feb! I think I'm ready for mine now! Good Luck!

Hoist! 8-)

[SilverDawg]

Hoist,

Thanks for the detailed and thorough reply  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif].  Great information.  I will follow your acquisition very closely as it appears you are a little ahead of me on the research and receipt of the bike.

I'll continue to monitor this thread and read the rest of the topics relative to exhaust and tuning.  Please keep us updated on your progress.

Thanks again.

John

[GC_Super]

John,

Great and helpful info from Hoist.  I can't type fast enough to provide that much info in one post.  

One thing he said that I agree on completely is to do your mods right away. Never did see the reason to wait for a thousand miles, especially now with the lean stock set-up. I would much rather avoid the heat during break-in. Most everyone that has done the basic stage one with a race tuner and map #84 has been happy.  I did all mine at delivery and was very happy. Then did my dyno at 1100 miles. I'm in Texas also and am a big fan of the true duals. Much cooler for the rider and passenger as well.

Good luck and enjoy.   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Robert

[SilverDawg]

Robert,

Thanks for the info.  Based upon what I have heard so far, and talking to a dealer yesterday, I will probably get the basic mods done at delivery, see how it runs, and then do the dyno tune at the first service.  Still have to decide between the true duals or using the stock heads with the slipons. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Hoist!]

Robert,

Thanks for the info.  Based upon what I have heard so far, and talking to a dealer yesterday, I will probably get the basic mods done at delivery, see how it runs, and then do the dyno tune at the first service.  Still have to decide between the true duals or using the stock heads with the slipons. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

John, Unless you're using the RH stepdown TD's, you can do both. Most slip-ons will fit the factory headpipes and TD headpipes. V&H TD headpipes anyway. This will allow you to try the slip-ons first and add the TD's later if you're still not happy. Unless you're doing substantial engine mods, I don't feel that you'll notice much difference with any of these combos, when properly tuned. With HiPo engine mods, I'd probably be looking at the stepdown RH TD's or a 2>1 system. Hoist!  8-)

[RedDevil]

John,
Hoist gave you a very thorough response.  He has done a lot of research and asked a lot of questions in these forums.  I think he'll know more than the MoCo by the time his SERK comes in.    I had the V&H duals and oval mufflers put on prior to delivery.  I'm running the SE Air Cleaner and SERT (right now with the 84 map "burned" in).  I'm taking it in next Tuesday for it's 1K service (actually will only have about 900 miles on it) and then having them put it on the dyno to peak and tweak the setup.  I don't regret having everything done before delivery and not waiting until the 1K.  Compare to my 88, which had the stock headers on it, the 110 runs cooler in the same conditions, or at least my right thigh doesn't feel all the heat that cross-over generated.  I think the school is still out as to what's better...stock headers/cross-over vs true duals.  Some say true duals are more for looks and heat, and some say that the stock cross-overs are closer to doing a 2-into-1 setup, which is supposedly the the best way to go but only a few manufacture a "dummy" muffler for the left side.  I personally like the balanced look on the baggers.  (Then there's the "hillbilly mod", which you can find in other threads here, that basically plugs the cross-over to the left muffler and gives you a stock-look 2-into-1)  I got a chance to listen to both the Vance & Hines setup and the Rineharts at my dealership before I made my decision.  The Vance and Hines ovals gave me the sound I liked a little better over the Rhineharts.  One thing I like about the Vance and Hines ovals is that when I'm going through neighborhoods at 5am, I can keep them fairly quiet and keeping the neighbors happy, but in the same vein, you can really make them bark without really trying.  They also have a nice pleasant rumble at 75 miles an hour so that I can hear my radio just fine.   The ovals can also be fitted with an optional performance baffle that will make them louder, if you desire, or an optional quiet baffle that will, well, you guessed it, make them quieter.  If you get the chance listen to the mufflers you're thinking about and then make the choice.  As far as performance goes, headers will give you a little better high end performance, the cross-overs and 2-into-1s will give you a little better lower end performance.  I personally can't tell the difference.  That 110 smokes compared to my old 88, so I guess it's all subjective. My dealership has no problems honoring the warranty with the mods that I did, as long as I had them done by them.   I purchased a 7-year extended warranty, because, like you, I'm planning on keeping this ride for a long time.  They basically told me that because all the mods were external and they did them, that they won't have any problems with warranty.  Now, I kind of took that to mean that if I go inside the engine, i.e. cams, that it may be a different story.  I'm not planning on doing that anyway.     Hope this helps.

Red

By the way, congrats on the 1K level Hoist.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[SilverDawg]

Thanks Red and Hoist.

Good stuff to consider.  The dealer where I bought my heritage recommended the 2 into 1 system for increased performance, but I do not want to give up the look of the duals.  I called my CVO dealer today and he really likes Rineharts, but his service manager and parts person are still out on vacation.  I'll give them a call next week to get their take on things.

I'll also have Hoists experience to help guide me , as he takes delivery well before I do.

[RedDevil]

Thanks Red and Hoist.

Good stuff to consider.  The dealer where I bought my heritage recommended the 2 into 1 system for increased performance, but I do not want to give up the look of the duals.  I called my CVO dealer today and he really likes Rineharts, but his service manager and parts person are still out on vacation.  I'll give them a call next week to get their take on things.

I'll also have Hoists experience to help guide me , as he takes delivery well before I do.

My dealer was about 50/50 on whether to get the Vance and Hines or the Rineharts.  They said I'd be happy with either setup and it basically boiled down to what I liked for sound and appearance.  I had to agree with them after hearing both setups.   I personally, like the looks and sound of the Ovals over the Rineharts.  Some people, are considering the S&S SPO oval mufflers.  I got a chance to hear those about a week ago and, in my opinion, didn't like the sound of them at all.  

Red

[VaEagle]

Hi RedDevil,
What about the S&S SPO sound did you not like?
Compairing them to the V&H ovals how would you describe the sound? Higher,lower volume and tone wise.

[RedDevil]

Hi RedDevil,
What about the S&S SPO sound did you not like?
Compairing them to the V&H ovals how would you describe the sound? Higher,lower volume and tone wise.

Va,
The bike I heard them on was an '05 Ultra w/a 95 big bore kit.  For some reason, and I've never been accused of having great hearing, they sounded "flat" and didn't have the rumble that I want in my exhaust.  When he rev'd the bike up when leaving the parking lot, they just seemed to lack any character, IMHO.  It's hard to describe, but they just didn't do anything for me.  And I wasn't too impressed with the looks from behind.  Obviously, I like the oval look, but these are almost retangular.  I'm not trying to flame anyone that has them or is thinking about getting them.  I know I wouldn't have been happy with them.  But that's just me.  I know web sound files can be misleading but go to this link  http://www.sscycle.com/ and click on "Feature" and then click on the sound file for the SPO mufflers.  What I heard is pretty dog gone close to that sound.  This link is a fairly good representation of the Vance and Hines Ovals.  click on the link then, "hear the oval slip-ons" : http://www.vanceandhines.com/a201_ovals_drs.html
Red

[VaEagle]

Thanks for the reply RedDevil,
I tried your link and I guess the site has changed for the holiday? I can't locate the sound file on the S&S SPOs. I have not seen them in this area so I haven't heard them in person. I have heard the V&H on the website and in person,They are very nice.I would consider them as well. Just didn't know how the two compaired. I know on the quiet muffler thread someone posted they loved the SPOs and you are the first I have heard not liking the sound. I have seen negative about the looks and I admit they are a little different but that's not always bad. 8-)

[RedDevil]

Thanks for the reply RedDevil,
[highlight]I tried your link and I guess the site has changed for the holiday? [/highlight]I can't locate the sound file on the S&S SPOs. I have not seen them in this area so I haven't heard them in person. I have heard the V&H on the website and in person,They are very nice.I would consider them as well. Just didn't know how the two compaired. I know on the quiet muffler thread someone posted they loved the SPOs and you are the first I have heard not liking the sound. I have seen negative about the looks and I admit they are a little different but that's not always bad. 8-)

VA,
When you click on the "Feature" icon, you'll see the SPO sound link in the middle of the page.  Click on it twice and see if that works.  That's what I had to do.  Sorry, I didn't mention that before.   Like I said, don't go by my sense of hearing. I just didn't care for the sound of them.  And you're right, different isn't always bad.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  Bottom line, the only person that has to like what you put on your bike, is you.  

Red

[WideOpen]

I've been reading these intake/exhaust posts with great interest ever since I discovered this site. Now that I'm a member and am expecting my new RK in 3 to 4 weeks I'm going to go ahead and join the discussion.

Was at my dealer today to talk to my salesperson to pin him down on the sert/warranty issue and he swore to me doing the mod would not affect my warranty. He told me the competing dealer down the road won't do it. Hoping he is right. He said they could use the V&H fuel pack if I was wasn't convinced. [highlight] Would that possibly be a better way to go?[/highlight]

The mods I am hoping to use are:
Doherty intake [highlight]Will my CVO aircleaner cover go over it?[/highlight]
D&D Boarzilla 2>1 with left side ghost pipe
SERT

Sound like a good plan?

By the way, my dealer recommended I do this all at the 1,000 service so I can have it dyno tuned to dial in the SERT. Being winter here I think I'll be alright as far as heat is concerned if I'm careful to stay away from heavy traffic.  Thay way I have time to consider other accessories I may want to add before using up my one time 20% off coupon.

I'll consider other suggestions.

[RedDevil]

I've been reading these intake/exhaust posts with great interest ever since I discovered this site. Now that I'm a member and am expecting my new RK in 3 to 4 weeks I'm going to go ahead and join the discussion.

Was at my dealer today to talk to my salesperson to pin him down on the sert/warranty issue and he swore to me doing the mod would not affect my warranty. He told me the competing dealer down the road won't do it. Hoping he is right. He said they could use the [highlight]V&H fuel pack if I was wasn't convinced[/highlight]. [highlight] Would that possibly be a better way to go?[/highlight]

The mods I am hoping to use are:
Doherty intake [highlight]Will my CVO aircleaner cover go over it?[/highlight]
D&D Boarzilla 2>1 with left side ghost pipe
SERT

Sound like a good plan?

By the way, my dealer recommended I do this all at the 1,000 service so I can have it dyno tuned to dial in the SERT. Being winter here I think I'll be alright as far as heat is concerned if I'm careful to stay away from heavy traffic.  Thay way I have time to consider other accessories I may want to add before using up my one time 20% off coupon.

I'll consider other suggestions.

The V&H doesn't give you the flexibility that the SERT will give you when it comes to the amount of tuning an experienced tech can do to your EFI.  The disadvantage to the SERT, which I have, is that it actually "imprints" the new map into the EFI module on your bike, so when a diagnostics computer is attached, the reading will show that the EFI mapping has been changed.  The advantage to the Fuel Pak is that, it's a "piggy-back" unit that actually goes between your EFI controller and the injectors and "fools" the EFI ECU into thinking it's giving the right fuel/air mixture for the situation.  I believe, but am not certain, that the Fuel Pak does support the O2 sensors, whereas the PCIII does not and you have to use the O2 eliminators to fool the EFI ECU into thinking the sensors are there.   My dealer will honor the warranty, even with the SERT, as long as they are then ones that did the install, which they were.  I'm not personally knowledgeable in the D&D's, but from what I've read, a lot of people like them and go with them.   Good luck in whatever way you chose to go.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Red