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[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Mike H bike it had 585 cams in it and was very soft down low. Cam swap to the GMR 577 and a SE 58 t/b stock heads dd fat cat

[bakon]

Wow. Just Pistons cam and throttle body

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Yes sir, the heads are 100% stock so you get what you get.. I was a bit in awe of the tq and some what unsure on the HP .. But I have seen some very bad casting with the 110. One in fact that had approx 30% of the port blocked by core shift..  But as far as having fun with the the power curve that will get the job done all day long. If he decided to port the heads its a simple deal and then he will broaden the curve and the hp will jump into the 120 + range

[KC2GIW]

That's a great touring setup!

[RoadDawg]

Great numbers!

[TNCarters]

Love the low end, going to have to keep this in consideration for the future.

[YELLOWBIRD]

Steve,

Looks Killer!

Can I get those Pistons yet for the 117"?


YB

[JoeVibe]

Steve,

Looks Killer!

Can I get those Pistons yet for the 117"?


YB

Hopefully Steve's in the dyno booth tuning my bike right now  so I'll answer you in the meantime. He definitely has domed pistons for the 117's.

[YELLOWBIRD]

Congrats on your second GMR bike upgrade!


Thanks Joe, when I last spoke to Steve, he only had 5 sets of Pistons or so. All spoken for then.

I'm sure it will turn out awesome.

Yb

[JoeVibe]

Thanks.

I'm sure he'll be ordering more. The 117 craze is just getting started.

[BostonboyDH]

    The 117 craze is just getting started....     YES IT IS!!!!!!

  BostonBoy

[Scott7d]

I love browsing dyno sheets on the internet. It's just fun. I gotta say the ones you post consistently hit 100TQ sooner than 99.9% of all the other builds I see. This bike may even have measurable torque when it's not even running 

[happyman]

Mike H bike it had 585 cams in it and was very soft down low. Cam swap to the GMR 577 and a SE 58 t/b stock heads dd fat cat
did it have the 10,5 piston in it using the 585 cams.?
you setup looks to be real nice everywhere!

[bakon]

Is original graph a SE piston or one of your own?

117 is what compression?

Run with this cam with 10.5 has to be better than 10:1 for the 43 intake close. Like that number a lot. Think 45 and up is late for touring all day bike.
Really liked woods 400g and 408 years ago but wouldn't do that much lift again, older and wiser lets just say...

And throttle body question... What size is stock to what?  Make much difference or under 5 on numbers? 

Really is impressive graph for what is needed. Especially is light headwork takes it above 120hp. Impressed with 1hp/1ci on any cam swap with over 100ft lbs the entire usable range.

Got a buddy asking about cams and both our bikes will be coming apart after warranty expires this fall (or before sturgis on mine and screw the warranty).

[TNCarters]

Steve, Question for a builder.  For mild builds like the original post, do you prefer to do higher compression pistons in stock 110 cylinders, one of your 113 kits or the newer 117 kits.  Which is the least work and easiest to tune?  I would think there is more potential in the higher inch builds but just wondering about builds that are mostly cam, piston, TB and tune.  How does build cost compare, biggest difference in cylinder cost?  This is assuming you do not have to get into the lower end and clutch.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Well having done many of the 10.5 110 builds vs the 10.5 113 builds we also see more power with the 113. Now that is can be for many reason. The biggest I feel is that we DO NOT ball hone a cylinder or worse just drop a new piston kit into a run cylinder.. Ring seal is power . As well you un-shroud the valves with a larger bore . Example a 600 cam with 58 t/b 110 with 10.5 piston makes 118 ish hp the 113 will make over 120 all with stock heads. Tq curve on the 113 comes in faster on avg.. I do not feel one is more wrong than right.. Both work well and if the cylinder is round and straight it will work.. Some 110 cylinders will never be round and straight even if you do bore them.. I have seen a few myself as well other builders. That have sprung or distorted if you will. That is just a production cylinder that has a flaw for what ever reason. It can happen.. not all cylinders are great.. The 110 though is a good bet to use as a platform to make power.

I would like to build a 117 stock heads with our 577 , then add a 58 . It would be a tq build without a doubt. But if you can obtain a massive curve and it makes say 115 ish great. Simple deal for most . I think you can get 113-116 hp with stock t/b . I have a cam that is done on and ready to be cut that would be great for a 10.1 comp ratio 117 build .  More lift than the 577 different ex lob and a touch more duration. It worked great in a 117 that we did with S&S kit with stock heads on a CVO. But that cam is not for sale so posting dyno sheets is a mute point.

In the end its a air pump and you need to feed it. The Stock 50 MM FBW is a restriction on stock heads.  I am sure that we will find a killer kit that is easy for the end user. That will make great power on both sides for the money spent.

   At this point we are in a holding pattern for two new cams.. the 17 engines are going to create some new questions and should be interesting to see how the public reacts . So until I can get my hands on a 17 no new cams are going to be put into production.

[BigRichRam02]

this sounds like a stupid fun way to go with my dyna fat bob just gotta get my clutch replaced.

[Unbalanced]

Well having done many of the 10.5 110 builds vs the 10.5 113 builds we also see more power with the 113. Now that is can be for many reason. The biggest I feel is that we DO NOT ball hone a cylinder or worse just drop a new piston kit into a run cylinder.. Ring seal is power . As well you un-shroud the valves with a larger bore . Example a 600 cam with 58 t/b 110 with 10.5 piston makes 118 ish hp the 113 will make over 120 all with stock heads. Tq curve on the 113 comes in faster on avg.. I do not feel one is more wrong than right.. Both work well and if the cylinder is round and straight it will work.. Some 110 cylinders will never be round and straight even if you do bore them.. I have seen a few myself as well other builders. That have sprung or distorted if you will. That is just a production cylinder that has a flaw for what ever reason. It can happen.. not all cylinders are great.. The 110 though is a good bet to use as a platform to make power.

I would like to build a 117 stock heads with our 577 , then add a 58 . It would be a tq build without a doubt. But if you can obtain a massive curve and it makes say 115 ish great. Simple deal for most . I think you can get 113-116 hp with stock t/b . I have a cam that is done on and ready to be cut that would be great for a 10.1 comp ratio 117 build .  More lift than the 577 different ex lob and a touch more duration. It worked great in a 117 that we did with S&S kit with stock heads on a CVO. But that cam is not for sale so posting dyno sheets is a mute point.

In the end its a air pump and you need to feed it. The Stock 50 MM FBW is a restriction on stock heads.  I am sure that we will find a killer kit that is easy for the end user. That will make great power on both sides for the money spent.

   At this point we are in a holding pattern for two new cams.. the 17 engines are going to create some new questions and should be interesting to see how the public reacts . So until I can get my hands on a 17 no new cams are going to be put into production.

So Steve are you saying things like these pictures can result from the boring when going from 110 to 113. 

[sadunbar]

So Steve are you saying things like these pictures can result from the boring when going from 110 to 113. 

 

[FlaHeatWave]

So Steve are you saying things like these pictures can result from the boring when going from 110 to 113. 

OUCH! How many miles? ?

[Unbalanced]

Not that many only 4K miles

[Fullsac Performance]

[quote
   At this point we are in a holding pattern for two new cams.. the 17 engines are going to create some new questions and should be interesting to see how the public reacts . So until I can get my hands on a 17 no new cams are going to be put into production.


You think? Lol..

[happyman]

[quote
   At this point we are in a holding pattern for two new cams.. the 17 engines are going to create some new questions and should be interesting to see how the public reacts . So until I can get my hands on a 17 no new cams are going to be put into production.


You think? Lol..

Seems there will be more of the other year of bikes to use a certain pattern than what the 17 may have? 

[Kingspoke]

   At this point we are in a holding pattern for two new cams.. the 17 engines are going to create some new questions and should be interesting to see how the public reacts . So until I can get my hands on a 17 no new cams are going to be put into production.

Do you expect a dramatic design change in the '17 engines over the current twin cams?

[harleytuner]

Do you expect a dramatic design change in the '17 engines over the current twin cams?

There is a huge change coming in '17.  107", 4 valves per head, oil cooled, possibly 4 cam, all motors are balanced

[Fullsac Performance]

There is a huge change coming in '17.  107", 4 valves per head, oil cooled, possibly 4 cam, all motors are balanced

 The men in the black suits are going to have a chat with you. Lol 

[LC110]

The elves up north, (Tomahawk) told me one came out of the woods last week, and stopped by for new colorful outfit. They said it sure is going to get people talking.

[harleytuner]

The men in the black suits are going to have a chat with you. Lol 

I'm not under any confidentiality agreement.

[Kingspoke]

The Twin Cam has been around since 1999, with multiple iterations, so it seems highly probable that major changes could occur for 2017.  Not to mention the recent increases in CC's kits and the 110's available in the softail, etc.

I'm gonna agree that major changes are going to happen in the 2017 motors. 

[OBB]

The Twin Cam has been around since 1999, with multiple iterations, so it seems highly probable that major changes could occur for 2017.  Not to mention the recent increases in CC's kits and the 110's available in the softail, etc.

I'm gonna agree that major changes are going to happen in the 2017 motors.

And if the '07 110 is any type of benchmark,  the new one might be in good shape by about 2019. Lol

[Para Bellum]

There is a huge change coming in '17.  107", 4 valves per head, oil cooled, possibly 4 cam, all motors are balanced

So they're going to ditch water-cooling and go back to the original system?   

They're going to use the "B" engine in Touring bikes and dump the rubber mounts?   

You pulling my leg?

[Kingspoke]

http://www.bikernewsonline.com/2015/07/fresh-rumors-surface-of-forthcoming.html

Maybe a touring version on the Vrod.

[Fullsac Performance]

http://www.bikernewsonline.com/2015/07/fresh-rumors-surface-of-forthcoming.html

Maybe a touring version on the Vrod.

 

[harleytuner]

http://www.bikernewsonline.com/2015/07/fresh-rumors-surface-of-forthcoming.html

Maybe a touring version on the Vrod.

It's completely different than the Vrod, it still has a separate transmission and primary.  Some kind of internal crank balance, 107" with 4 valves per head and oil cooled. The "milwaulkee 8"

[SneakyPete]

It's completely different than the Vrod, it still has a separate transmission and primary.  Some kind of internal crank balance, 107" with 4 valves per head and oil cooled. The "milwaulkee 8"

Who wants to be a Beta tester?

[Mr. Warlock]

Who wants to be a Beta tester?

I thought we all were.......... already 

[Kingspoke]

It's completely different than the Vrod, it still has a separate transmission and primary.  Some kind of internal crank balance, 107" with 4 valves per head and oil cooled. The "milwaulkee 8"

The reference of "vrod" type was more in regard to the new design (as the revolution motor was) utilizing the 4 valves per cylinder, and a major departure from the vtwin motors of current popularity.

Any more information that you might have, I'm all ears!

[harleytuner]

The reference of "vrod" type was more in regard to the new design (as the revolution motor was) utilizing the 4 valves per cylinder, and a major departure from the vtwin motors of current popularity.

Any more information that you might have, I'm all ears!

This is pure speculation, but there is a major change in the cam chest area, from the pictures I have the cover is a completely different shape.  Looks more rounded like a frying pan.  It's hard to tell by the pic, but the pushrods appear that they could be straighter which would lead me to believe a possible 4 cam build, or even a 3 cam (independent exhaust and shared intake cams). 

I can say for certain that there is a re-designed horn cover lol

[Kingspoke]

This is pure speculation, but there is a major change in the cam chest area, from the pictures I have the cover is a completely different shape.  Looks more rounded like a frying pan.  It's hard to tell by the pic, but the pushrods appear that they could be straighter which would lead me to believe a possible 4 cam build, or even a 3 cam (independent exhaust and shared intake cams). 

I can say for certain that there is a re-designed horn cover lol

That is the ice breaker for me, I'm all in, now!

I've noticed how BMW is developing a bagger version (101 concept) and Harley is now going to a possibly 4 valve, 4 cyclinder bagger, as if there is a convergence or industry change of what a future bagger will look like and perform like.  Each trying to entice bikers  from either camp.

Based on Vrod sales, I'm certain Harley is sweating bullets over how this new bike will be received (here).

[Black Diamond]

Who wants to be a Beta tester?

My dance card is full.. I'll pass if this come to light.

JW

[Rooster]

Not me, but I will gladly read all about right here.

[DCFIREMANN]

So Steve are you saying things like these pictures can result from the boring when going from 110 to 113. 

Harry not sure what happened to those cylinders. Had the bike been tuned?? What pistons?? What cams?? AND HOW MANY MILES??? I hope that is not one of your bikes!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Unbalanced]

Mike,

The heads were pretty black with carbon, cylinders were honed to go to 113 and stock crank was replaced at time of build.  If it is a heat issue then I would say tune, but there seems to be multiple concerns that need to be addressed.   I believe the owner will either redo it as a 113 or redo it as a 117.   Personally I would like to cut the cylinders in half where the marks are to see if there is any material behind the liners, but that is just my inquisitive side.

Glad it's not mine I would be pretty frustrated at just 3500-4K miles.

[DCFIREMANN]

Do we have any other info on this build, TB size, head work done and what flywheels were used. I see it had GMR 577 cams and a FAT KAT exhaust. Who built and who tuned the motor. I'm surprised at 4K to have a failure like this.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Unbalanced]

Mike I believe it had a VH power cell  2-1-2 with crushers. 58 mm throttle body.    I heard the owner has contacted the vendor and is seeing what can be done or where he goes from here.   

[DCFIREMANN]

Well lets hope he gets it straightened out soon!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG