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jimp

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Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« on: February 09, 2007, 08:06:37 AM »

AP
Analysts: Harley Strike Will Be Short
Friday February 9, 12:05 am ET
By Emily Fredrix, AP Business Writer 
Analysts: Harley Davidson Strike Will Be Short, Won't Hurt Co.; Will Lose $11 Million Per Day

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Analysts estimate a strike at Harley-Davidson Inc.'s main assembly plant is costing the motorcycle maker up to $11 million a day in sales, but predict it will be short-lived and have little effect on the company's performance this year.
The Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker said Thursday that a nearly weeklong strike in York, Pa., will cause it to miss shipment guidance for the first quarter.

Harley had expected to ship between 82,000 and 84,000 bikes during the first three months of the year. But a strike by 2,800 union workers at the plant, where top-selling, heavyweight Touring and Softail bikes are made, means it will come up short.

The company also warned that the strike may force it to temporarily lay off as many as 740 employees at two Wisconsin plants as early as Monday. The plants in the Milwaukee area and the north central town of Tomahawk make parts such as engines and windshields. The layoffs would begin voluntarily but could become forced, the company said.

Harley declined to provide updated shipment guidance for the first quarter and would not say whether the strike will have an effect on full year financial guidance.

First quarter shipments were likely to be at least 5,500 short because of the strike, Banc of America Securities analyst Michael Savner wrote in a research note.

Considering that the York plant makes about 60 percent of Harley's motorcycles, the loss in revenue from the strike could be up to $11 million a day, said Tim Conder, a leisure analyst with AG Edwards & Sons.

UBS analyst Robin Farley wrote in a research note that each day of the strike means earnings per share will be down roughly 1 cent for the first quarter of the year.

But analysts don't think the strike, which began last week, will have a significant effect on earnings or the full-year performance because they expect it to last only two weeks.

Union workers in York overwhelmingly rejected the company's contract proposal last week. The three-year proposal offered annual raises of 4 percent, but it would have reduced pay rates for new hires, required employees to begin paying part of their health insurance premiums and forced pension concessions.

Messages left with union officials were not immediately returned Thursday.

Union leaders need to be realistic when looking at the proposal, Conder said. Harley is faring well relative to others in the automotive industry, where record losses and layoffs are common, he said. Last year, Harley's revenue rose 8.6 percent to $5.8 billion

The new contracts are trying to rein in costs for the future, Conder said.

"Any good company over time will control your rate of cost growth because you can't bank on the fact that it's going to be good all the time," he said.

The company and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Works Local 175 held federally mediated negotiations on Tuesday and Wednesday, though nothing was resolved, Harley spokesman Bob Klein said. No further meetings are planned, he said.

"We think that the contract proposal was extremely fair and generous," Klein said.

Harley also informed the union that it would cancel its workers' health and life insurance on Monday, a normal action during strikes, Klein said. Workers affected by layoffs in Wisconsin will not lose benefits, he said.

Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work, Klein said.

In November, 1,600 union workers in the Milwaukee area approved contract concessions that Harley demanded to proceed with a $120 million plant expansion. Members of United Steelworkers of America Local 2-209 initially rejected the proposals, which included lower wages for workers hired after Jan. 1 and a decrease in health insurance, pensions and cost-of-living adjustments for all workers.

Harley shares fell 64 cents to close at $69.36 on the New York Stock Exchange.

Harley-Davidson: http://www.harleydavidson.com



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mr_magoo

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 09:03:57 AM »

Always strikes me a crazy when they post record profit while taking wages, pension, and health care away from the people that make them all that money.  What ever happened to share the wealth. :soapbox:
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 09:36:35 AM »

At least they are not picky who they screw over, Workers, customers, hell, I'm sure the Execs @ MoCo go home and steal money from their kids Piggy banks whenever they get the chance too.
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jimp

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 10:07:47 AM »

Are the 450, line workers, office or management?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 10:09:29 AM by jimp »
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 11:40:49 PM »

Are the 450, line workers, office or management?


What's the difference?....that's still 450 scabs!
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DavidB

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 11:59:13 PM »

Always strikes me a crazy when they post record profit while taking wages, pension, and health care away from the people that make them all that money.  What ever happened to share the wealth. :soapbox:


I just hope this doesn`t make Harley take a long hard look at sharing the wealth with China in terms of a new plant.
Dave
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RedDevil

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2007, 08:26:03 AM »


What's the difference?....that's still 450 scabs!
Their probably admin and management.  I don't consider them scabs, they don't get the benefits (or the negative aspects) that the union gets for it's members.  They have jobs to do.  Scabs are the union members that break the picket lines or the ones hired to take the union members place during the strike...(remember the scab games in baseball?  Hector who?  ???) I can't blame people for wanting to work...those paychecks do come in handy.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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TCinVA

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2007, 08:36:25 AM »

Their probably admin and management.  I don't consider them scabs, they don't get the benefits (or the negative aspects) that the union gets for it's members.  They have jobs to do.  Scabs are the union members that break the picket lines or the ones hired to take the union members place during the strike...(remember the scab games in baseball?  Hector who?  ???) I can't blame people for wanting to work...those paychecks do come in handy.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
Morning Red...
I'm pretty middle of the road on the Unions vs management business.  Wife worked for telephone company for several years here in VA.  Member of Communication Workers of America.  They struck Ma Bell and frankly we made more while she was on strike than when she was working.  Not sure how the Machinist's work (or CWA nowadays), but she got a check every week for $100 (pretty small change), but what the Union did as well was to pay every bill we presented to them - mortgage, utilities, phone ( :confused5:), etc.  We actually made money while she was on strike.  She walked the picket line of course.  Now if you're the primary bread winner, $100/week (or perhaps month) doesn't put much food on the table :(.
Guess my point is, if we don't know the details of what the Union is or is not providing for the workers in York, pretty tough to speculate on how long the workers can hold out.  It this situation, seems to me the MoCo probably has the upper hand. JMHO.
Sitting here hoping my B&O is "already built" and is part of the two-three month inventory yet to ship :nixweiss:
Be safe Shipmate,
Tony
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KentuckyHarleyDude

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2007, 08:45:30 AM »

At least they are not picky who they screw over, Workers, customers, hell, I'm sure the Execs @ MoCo go home and steal money from their kids Piggy banks whenever they get the chance too.

Hemmmmmm sounds like a Honda might be in YOUR future if you feel THAT way about Harley.

Bubba
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 08:47:42 AM by KentuckyHarleyDude »
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DavidB

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 08:48:01 AM »

With so many unsold bikes there are on the floors and in boxes of dealers around the country it looks like the company could hold out for sometime. The dealers were complaining about the over stock at the winter meeting in Fla before the strike. The company probably knows when it wants to start production again and what it needs to do for the employs to get off of the picket lines.
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RedDevil

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 10:31:42 PM »

Morning Red...
I'm pretty middle of the road on the Unions vs management business.  Wife worked for telephone company for several years here in VA.  Member of Communication Workers of America.  They struck Ma Bell and frankly we made more while she was on strike than when she was working.  Not sure how the Machinist's work (or CWA nowadays), but she got a check every week for $100 (pretty small change), but what the Union did as well was to pay every bill we presented to them - mortgage, utilities, phone ( :confused5:), etc.  We actually made money while she was on strike.  She walked the picket line of course.  Now if you're the primary bread winner, $100/week (or perhaps month) doesn't put much food on the table :(.
Guess my point is, if we don't know the details of what the Union is or is not providing for the workers in York, pretty tough to speculate on how long the workers can hold out.  It this situation, seems to me the MoCo probably has the upper hand. JMHO.
Sitting here hoping my B&O is "already built" and is part of the two-three month inventory yet to ship :nixweiss:
Be safe Shipmate,
Tony
Hey Tony,
I've never worked as a union member...remember, we weren't allow to strike in the Navy, unless it was with tactical weapons attached to an F/A-18.  ::) I've heard of some unions doing that for their members when they're on strike...I guess that's what all those union dues are for.  I'm definitely not on the MoCo's side, but I can also see where they don't want to give away the farm just because things are going good right now...somehow they've got to reach a happy medium so you can get your Jester.  And bottom line, that's what it's all about. ;)
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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DavidB

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 10:43:06 PM »


Sitting here hoping my B&O is "already built" and is part of the two-three month inventory yet to ship :nixweiss:
Be safe Shipmate,
Tony


Tony,
   You could probably head up to the picket lines with a box a donuts and find someone there who would tell you if there are any B/O bikes on the dock ready to ship when the strike is over.
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hard10

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 11:00:09 PM »

Did anyone read last Monday's Wall Street Journal where upper management sold a record number of shares? The CEO netted some where around 40 million dollars. The accountant and others made a killing selling options.

Bagger

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 12:04:55 AM »

Wonder are they putting some of those workers in the CVO area.
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2007, 01:19:42 PM »

Wonder are they putting some of those workers in the CVO area.

If I was waiting on one, I would hope that it wasn't built by someone who had to move down from management to put bikes together :nervous: :nervous:

The CVO's are assembled by a couple of people all the way down the line, so I wouldn't want somebody who probably hasn't turned a wrench in years, if ever, putting my bike together.
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2007, 01:46:38 PM »

If I was waiting on one, I would hope that it wasn't built by someone who had to move down from management to put bikes together :nervous: :nervous:

The CVO's are assembled by a couple of people all the way down the line, so I wouldn't want somebody who probably hasn't turned a wrench in years, if ever, putting my bike together.

Dat's my point!  Just like I'd want some body doing some QA on me if I went back to bending wrenches on aircraft.  I haven't done it in so long..........my work would need some QA, let alone require it.
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TCinVA

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2007, 07:27:45 PM »


Tony,
   You could probably head up to the picket lines with a box a donuts and find someone there who would tell you if there are any B/O bikes on the dock ready to ship when the strike is over.

David,
Couple more weeks of strike and $$ would probably work much better than donuts ;)
TC
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2007, 10:59:54 PM »

If I was waiting on one, I would hope that it wasn't built by someone who had to move down from management to put bikes together :nervous: :nervous:

The CVO's are assembled by a couple of people all the way down the line, so I wouldn't want somebody who probably hasn't turned a wrench in years, if ever, putting my bike together.

took delivery of my serk day after thanksgiving, had 2 different exhaust tips.  stood out like a sore thumb.  management couldn't do any worse.
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sooiee

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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2007, 02:01:11 PM »

If I was waiting on one, I would hope that it wasn't built by someone who had to move down from management to put bikes together :nervous: :nervous:

The CVO's are assembled by a couple of people all the way down the line, so I wouldn't want somebody who probably hasn't turned a wrench in years, if ever, putting my bike together.

 :soapbox:

Um...gosh, you complain about quality on the site.  The union folks are the one that have been building them.  Why not do away with them?  Quality has been bad (according to posts on here) I vote to let the folks that engineer them and design them to do the work!!!  Maybe some things will change for the better and maybe there will be some CARE that goes into the process and things will improve? 

Let's see...the company wants the union workers contribute to pay "something" towards their healthcare.  HELLO...have you seen what the healthcare has done lately?  Maybe if folks have to pay a little out of their own pockets, they wont run to the emergency room next time they get a cough.  HONEST STORY HERE:  I was standing next to an XYZunion worker when a rolling cart moved and bumped her on the heal.  I don't think it could have squashed a grape if you put it between the cart and the wall with the speed this thing was traveling.  No skin tear, no redness, just a bump...Do you know there were approx. 10 union folks around her and the steward TOLD her to go to the emergency room to have it checked out.  PLEASE....

Starting wage is what $22/hr NOW for someone walking in the door.  Everyone that is already hired wont lose a thing.  It's the NEW employees that will walk in making a mere, poor, measly $18/hr.  They could go down and flip burgers if they thought that was too little money?  Not bad for someone that may only have a high school diploma eh?  There are a lot of college graduates that don't make that much! 

Where do folks get off thinking the company that employs them ows them something????  Sorry, but that's NOT how it works.  You get a paychek for putting in hours worked when you're "hourly".  If they wanted stock options or bonuses based on the company earnings then they should have applied for a managment job....

The company ows them a paycheck.  Nothing more.  So what if the doors are locked one day at York?  I suppose the employees will be there saying "you can't do that...you owe us our jobs?" 

So much for your freedom right???  The Union tells you when to strike and what to accept as a contract.  But what if you really NEED the money?  Sorry dude...you're a scab if you cross. 

Come back to reality please.  Ok...I'm done now.   :soapbox:

« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 02:05:47 PM by sooiee »
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 07:31:10 PM »

Always strikes me a crazy when they post record profit while taking wages, pension, and health care away from the people that make them all that money.  What ever happened to share the wealth. :soapbox:

I might be wrong but looking at the demographics of York Pa where the plant is located the average income per capita is $21500 per year ...now from what I can see by what Ive read on the net the average income for a Harley employee in the York plant is about $40000.00 per year ....now it seems to me that Harley is paying their employees well above average for the area + benifits  ...so it appears they ARE "sharing" the wealth  ....considering the employee has no risk involved ...nothing invested in the company but their time and skill (and Harley most likely trained them) ...I think they employee has to remember they are not Partners (unless they are share holders) and actually have a pretty damn good gig ..... JMHO for what its worth

Bubba
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Re: Roughly 450 nonunion workers in York continue to work
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2007, 08:18:11 PM »

Didn't want to quote the whole post for only one sentence, but a couple posts up was the statement that maybe if they pay a little for their healthcare they won't run to the ER every time they cough - - -- or words to that effect. You know, this is a pet peeve of mine as well. Seems like the people I've known in my life who were on public assistance ran off to the ER about every little thing. There might just be something to that little piece of logic. I pay $90 a month toward my healthcare plan. I have 10% copay to a max out of pocket of $1,200 for me and $2,000 for the wife and I total. In an average year I spend about $2,000 total on healthcare. I think that's pretty damn cheap for a guy who's spent as much time as I have in hospitals. I don't have one single complaint about my healthcare even though 26 years ago when I started, everything was free. Times change, the economics of business changes. Unions don't, I know I was in one for a long time. These folks on strike need to wake up and smell the coffee and come to understand that in the 21'st century, the job is the perk. Anything you get in way of benefits is gravy and should be appreciated. I could go off in a dozen directions with this, but what I've said here is enough

Just my $0.02.

B B
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