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Author Topic: Leak Down Test Letter  (Read 2673 times)

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Para Bellum

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 03:34:39 AM »

It seems this is Harley's current issue resolution process:

1. Deny there is a problem.  Tell all customer's either their issue is normal (they all do that), or that their aftermarket modifications voided their warranty.
2. Wait for aftermarket to "prove" there is an issue and/or threat of class action lawsuit.
3. Send out letter to gather information.
4a. If issue can cause serious injury, issue a recall; or
4b. If issue does not pose significant potential safety threat, issue new spec based on information gathered so vast majority of claims fall under new established parameters.
5a. If no safety issue, wait for aftermarket to develop a real fix; or
5b. Create a Screamin' Eagle upgrade kit at customer's expense (parts + labor) to "get to the upper range" of spec.
5c.  Wait for it to break outside warranty, then refer to 5b.

How in the world can a billion dollar company that's produced bikes since 1903 not be able to produce an engine without a plethora of problems?  M8 oil pump/sumping problems and now bad valve seats. 
Uhh...because they don't want to?   :nixweiss:
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fastfreddy

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:11 AM »

like many issues, the dealer will say... "never seen that before" how the hell can they be the masters of HD service and never see a broke motor cycle  :nixweiss:
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ultrafxr

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 10:25:45 PM »

Here is an update video from T-Man.  Problem seems to stem from the valve seat inserts not being properly inserted into the head. Pics at end of video show the problem in detail.

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Mark

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2018, 09:21:04 AM »

Does make you wonder how those faulty valve seats got through quality control. 
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ultrafxr

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 09:45:44 AM »

Does make you wonder how those faulty valve seats got through quality control.
From what (I think) I understand it is more an installation issue than a part quality issue per se.  Still there is a quality issue relating to the process for sure.  Doesn't solve any possible issues but I wonder if the moco assembles the heads in house or if they are procured from an outside vendor. 
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Twolanerider

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 11:03:20 AM »

From what (I think) I understand it is more an installation issue than a part quality issue per se.  Still there is a quality issue relating to the process for sure.  Doesn't solve any possible issues but I wonder if the moco assembles the heads in house or if they are procured from an outside vendor.

Proud of the seat one might (or might not) see a knurl left from the poorly installed seat.  That such a thing might happen is easy enough to understand.  It shouldn't be a common thing at all.  But one can understand how it would happen.

The fact of its repetition suggests a couple things though.  A certain lack of care/precision in the assembly process and, every bit if not more worrying, an obvious lack of relatively simple testing.  It's not that big a deal to jig up a bare casting to pressure test.  That's not something your aftermarket should have to find for you.
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ultrafxr

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 11:42:43 AM »

The OP on the forum where I first saw this advises that he spoke to his friend about the letter.  Turns out it may be a TSB from the moco but the friend is having trouble locating it after the 'Christmas clean up.'  I've searched for such a TSB but no joy. In any case the issue does appear to be real and of some consequence as evidenced by T-Man's videos and I've seen threads on several forums. 

One post had a excellent suggestion:  'Maybe they can pressurize the primary with some of the blow-by so the trans lube will stay in the trans.'
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Para Bellum

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 11:33:46 PM »

One post had a excellent suggestion:  'Maybe they can pressurize the primary with some of the blow-by so the trans lube will stay in the trans.'
LOL
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hrdtail78

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 01:21:59 PM »

TR brings up a good question with how the factory installs seats.  Press in or bang them in.  I know some manufactures pull the seat into place as it is pushing in guide.  Anyway, I would assume HD is not new at this.

Something I would of liked to see with the vid and pics is the clock angle of the flaw.  Are they under the port at the thinnest part of the head?  Is the 2nd seat adding to this problem by putting more force in this area?

Not a head guy so I might not be using proper nomenclature.  BUT I am trying to describe a problem that one can get into by over boring a seat to what it was meant to, and puts pressure to the underside of runner at a higher psi because the lack of material to spread out that load.
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MCE Performance

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 08:27:00 AM »

The MoCo will do like they did with the crank runout.  They will update the spec to make everything “within tolerances” versus fixing the problem.
Gotta love how they "take the bull by the horns". (not)

I'm surprised the seats aren't falling out. If there's enough slop for air leakage,
they have to be pretty loose. wth?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 08:38:08 AM by MCE Performance »
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Fullsac Performance

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Re: Leak Down Test Letter
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2018, 10:10:31 AM »

Gotta love how they "take the bull by the horns". (not)

I'm surprised the seats aren't falling out. If there's enough slop for air leakage,
they have to be pretty loose. wth?

The CNC head porters have all struggled with core shift on the HD heads. The seats don't actually have to be loose to have a bypass of air around them. if there is any void in the seat pocket where the cutter didn't touch 100% of the aluminum, you have potential for an issue.

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