Topic: 117" Bolt on kit (Read 7195 times)

Chainsaw123 · « **on:** February 04, 2018, 08:44:38 AM »

New to this site and was wondering if any have installed the 117" kit and what results you've had?
I'm getting ready to have it installed with S&S 585 Cams and was wanting feed back. Thanks!

bakon · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2018, 10:09:39 AM »

Mine just got done with S&S 585. 2014 cvo limited. Had the heads done by GMS in Uniontown. He cleaned up the combustion chamber and some intake, checked everything over and had to shim the springs to the right height after port work. Kept stock valves and springs.
Also used adjustable pushrods because I lost a little height (decked .010-015 to make up for what was removed when cleaning up head, keep same volume) He believes the water cooled heads are good on the exhaust. The longer kit pushrods won't work as ss585 is stock base circle. stock pushrods also too long with what was removed during decking and I also used .030 cometic head gasket. I actually put rocker boxes back on and off and pulled the adjustables out to see how close...about .040 shorter than stock.
Used Fueling tappets. Also run the vance and Hines power duals with hi output mufflers (dyno operator said they flow too much and cost me a couple)
Final numbers. 117hp and 129ft/lbs. He runs rear tire at 40 psi to compare bikes closer and determine whether a build has a problem. He said at 50psi, where it is on the road, only adds a couple to final number but makes no difference in the tune. he said the bike is pulling all the way to the end and the torque is nice and flat across. I haven't seen it yet.
Some discussion on the ss585 and se259 will say the 10:1 compression of the kit is too low but Greg at GMS disagrees being the engine is so big. He picked the cam for me when I was looking for an earlier intake close. Either way I ride cross country and didn't want more lift or compression. Sure some was left on table comparing around here. Can't say anything about ride, snowing here
Will

Robmay · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2018, 11:09:56 AM »

Lots of good info here for the Twin Cam.

https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=19.0

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2018, 11:28:36 AM »

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on February 04, 2018, 08:44:38 AM

New to this site and was wondering if any have installed the 117" kit and what results you've had?
I'm getting ready to have it installed with S&S 585 Cams and was wanting feed back. Thanks!

Youre in the drivers seat. You can get these to hit about 120 square right out of the box all SE parts stock heads. If the heads are ported with a larger intake and added compression and larger TB plus cam it isn't that hard to pop over 140 sq. The old saying speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?
94 pages of posts
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105913.0

Daniellee · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2018, 02:05:03 PM »

The 117 kit from Harley using the 10.7 : 1 piston from Suburban Motors Harley in Wi. You can go to thier web site .. They don't use the 259 cam but this impressive dyno sheet is with the 259.

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2018, 04:33:12 PM »

That's more like it. The compression number scares many. I can tell you from first hand experience on the phone and respoding to emails. They don't understand that the cam controls the " corrected" compression, the number to consider. Acrs now help with starting so when tuned properly there isn't a downside to the compression. Of course premium becomes mandatory at sea level.

cvo1717 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2018, 03:04:36 PM »

this is mine 10:5:1comp woods cam

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2018, 05:44:10 PM »

Thanks! I appreciate the replies. I’m looking at head work to I guess looking at the numbers posted that have had work done

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2018, 05:47:12 PM »

Nice numbers on the breakout!

Scott7d · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2018, 12:05:24 PM »

I did the Suburban Speed Harley 117 cylinder/piston combo, then a mix or parts from there based on goals. I love the 117 platform and bet you will, too. Great power at reasonable compression, and not just peak numbers if done right. Nice broad power. I had head work done to get up to around 11 to 1. We were aiming for 200/200 CCP, ended up getting 195/195 with 135hp/133tq. Plenty for me while being able to tour the country and top off with occasional subpar fuel if needed. No pinging or hiccups.

1roadking · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2018, 06:13:10 PM »

What Cam, exhaust and who did your head work? I’m doing the same kit with a tman 590 and suburban speed head work as well. Your numbers look great. Did you touch the bottom end?

Unbalanced · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2018, 10:24:57 PM »

CVO1717 Looks Great ! What did it make SAE can't see a correction factor?

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2018, 09:50:55 AM »

Harry it is in his signature
126 hp 131 TQ SAE

Unbalanced · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2018, 11:06:32 AM »

Sorry don’t see that on the App

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HUBBARD · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2018, 02:51:53 PM »

Again, if all you redneck hotrodders didn't work that bottom end on all that bolt-on 117 chit, and you ride it like you stole it, you will be spending some more money. But what do I know? I'm just an Ol' Countryboy with no education. Later--HUBBARD

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2018, 03:19:05 PM »

But educated perhaps by the school of hard knocks? Voice of experience?

Yellow09SERG · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2018, 06:32:01 PM »

Quote from: HUBBARD on February 11, 2018, 02:51:53 PM

Again, if all you redneck hotrodders didn't work that bottom end on all that bolt-on 117 chit, and you ride it like you stole it, you will be spending some more money. But what do I know? I'm just an Ol' Countryboy with no education. Later--HUBBARD

I am betting old Hubbard knows from both....Hard knocks and experience

Scott7d · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2018, 06:52:39 PM »

Quote from: 1roadking on February 10, 2018, 06:13:10 PM

What Cam, exhaust and who did your head work? I’m doing the same kit with a tman 590 and suburban speed head work as well. Your numbers look great. Did you touch the bottom end?

Cyclerama 630i cams, D&D Boarzilla exhaust. Its got a Barnett Kevlar clutch pack, Aim lock up, and an S&S crank.

1roadking · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2018, 09:40:09 AM »

Scott 7d who did your heads?

Scott7d · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2018, 12:48:11 PM »

Larry's Motorcycle and Machine. On this page and a few others, he's known as "WFO Larry".

kaynine840 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2018, 10:01:12 AM »

this is mine with just the 117 bolt on kit, rinehart slip-ons and maximus tuner. hp=118 tq=128 on a 2016 cvo breakout

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2018, 08:49:22 AM »

Got my build finished and picked bike up Friday. Went with Fueling 574 cams added a cush drive and had .030 cometic gasket put on. Didn't do any head work. I have Vance and Hines Two into One Pro Pipe with the competition baffle. My numbers were 92hp and 116 tq after exhaust was put on. Numbers after the build are 110hp and 119tq. I'm highly disappointed in the numbers. I can tell it has more power but not very much from just the exhaust. Am I being correct in feeling this way? Of all the research I've done I figured I would be around 120hp and 130tq or there about. I'm wondering if the dyno was done correctly because it misses occasionally and lags put 300 miles on it yesterday

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #22 on:** March 04, 2018, 12:01:24 PM »

I have my opinions but admit bias.
But a 117" standard kit out of the box does better than that. The tune can be a huge factor. If the Delphi is pulling timing and AFRs are all over the map it will not be happy. Your expectations are not unrealistic. A 117" is a large motor that when implemented right can be a lot of fun. Get it to a tuner first. Let us know where you are at and perhaps we can help with a recommendation.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 04, 2018, 12:12:14 PM »

Thanks for your reply. I was trying to be conservative with my expectations and those numbers are after the tune. I have power vision flashed when I did the exhaust and stayed with it for the tune after the 117 was installed. The person I chose to do the build said that's the numbers he was expecting and didn't believe me that my dyno after the exhaust was 92hp and 116 tq. I emailed him the dyno sheet and got no reply back. I'm still wondering if it's a bad tune

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #24 on:** March 04, 2018, 12:29:27 PM »

If you tell us where you are at maybe we can lead you to a qualified tuner that can also do some basic checks and get to the bottom of what's wrong.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 04, 2018, 02:09:37 PM »

I’m in Chattanooga Tn the local dealership did the dyno tune

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #26 on:** March 04, 2018, 02:52:45 PM »

OK now we are talking.
https://www.facebook.com/jandbperformance/
J&B Performance Cycles, Mohawk, TN

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 04, 2018, 03:40:30 PM »

Thank you so much! Will be giving them a call in the morning

Yellow09SERG · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2018, 03:51:11 PM »

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on March 04, 2018, 12:12:14 PM

Thanks for your reply. I was trying to be conservative with my expectations and those numbers are after the tune. I have power vision flashed when I did the exhaust and stayed with it for the tune after the 117 was installed. The person I chose to do the build said that's the numbers he was expecting and didn't believe me that my dyno after the exhaust was 92hp and 116 tq. I emailed him the dyno sheet and got no reply back. I'm still wondering if it's a bad tune

I would think those numbers might be a little less than I would have expected too. If I am reading your post correctly you are still running a flash for a 110 with a pro pipe in your 117 and the 117 has not really been tuned? If you are feeling misses and dead spots, I would be looking for a tuner. Its worth the time to get it done right. If you fall anywhere between 115-125 on HP and anywhere from 120 to 135 on torque would be pretty reasonable expectations. The 574 with only the .030 gasket might be lacking a little compression to really make it shine. Good tune might really surprise ya on the seat dyno and thats what tell ya your happy, not a.piece of paper. Good luck

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2018, 03:58:26 PM »

The 259e the kit comes with wold work better. Add compression better yet. Head work and move right up the ladder. The tuner I gave you has tuned a few builds, 117" bolt on with changes, from guys on this board that were right at 140sq.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2018, 04:36:28 PM »

To Yellow09serg it’s was tuned again after the 117 build was done. That’s why I was disappointed with the final results. Thank you HD Street Proformance I looked them up on FB and was impressed with them. I will be calling them tomorrow to talk with them .0

Unbalanced · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2018, 05:09:12 PM »

Chainsaw,

One problem can be timing being pulled from heat with the PV maps. The stock power vision maps can be frustrating from Dynojet for then less than stellar tuners. They pull big timing depending on temp. A good tuner will generally manage that and adjust or turn off those tables to tune the bike.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2018, 05:22:55 PM »

I’m wondering if the dealership didn’t tune it correctly or half way did it. I may call the dealership and talk to them first before proceeding. I appreciate the info I wouldn’t know to think of that hence posting here for feedback from people who know

Unbalanced · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2018, 05:49:57 PM »

My guess is your pulling tons of timing at 220 degrees and beyond

If you have your map and the PV software open your map and look at the tables under Spark

Spark adjust by air temp
Spark adjust by Engine Temp
Spark Adjust by head temp

I would start there

Did they turn off spark knock retard when they tuned it? That can also take up to 8 degrees of timing out of the motor.

Not saying these are the issue, just some places to start looking.

Other than that a compression test and a leak down. If you tune it elsewhere bring it back to the original Dyno for comparison.

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2018, 09:21:42 PM »

I agree, 100%

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2018, 05:00:31 AM »

Thanks for your input! I’ll check on those

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2018, 09:42:27 PM »

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on March 04, 2018, 03:40:30 PM

Thank you so much! Will be giving them a call in the morning

Brandon does great work. He has tuned two bikes for me so far. Hard to beat unless you want to go to FL.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 06, 2018, 09:31:22 AM »

I called and left a message yesterday and haven’t heard back yet. If I don’t hear back I’ll be going to Daytona next week maybe I can have it done there.

cherryseeg2 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 06, 2018, 01:05:01 PM »

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 04, 2018, 02:52:45 PM

OK now we are talking.
https://www.facebook.com/jandbperformance/
J&B Performance Cycles, Mohawk, TN

Thanks Don!!

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on March 06, 2018, 09:31:22 AM

I called and left a message yesterday and haven’t heard back yet. If I don’t hear back I’ll be going to Daytona next week maybe I can have it done there.

Was good talking to you this morning. Looking Forward to getting here and on the dyno.

Brandon

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 06, 2018, 02:11:14 PM »

Thanks for the call back Brandon looking forward to working your magic!

CVCVORG · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2018, 10:32:46 PM »

Looking forward to seeing Brandon’s magic. I was impressed when I spoke to them about an upgrade.

Chainsaw123 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 08, 2018, 02:53:20 PM »

Got it back from the dealership> They increased the timing 5 degrees and 25% more fuel on decel. It still misses and pops on decel. The numbers didn't change lol They said that's all your gonna get out of that set up. I'm still bewildered!

cherryseeg2 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2018, 10:28:14 PM »

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on March 08, 2018, 02:53:20 PM

Got it back from the dealership> They increased the timing 5 degrees and 25% more fuel on decel. It still misses and pops on decel. The numbers didn't change lol They said that's all your gonna get out of that set up. I'm still bewildered!

Really sounds like they are just guessing at this point. I truely think there's more in it if properly tuned.

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2018, 08:32:42 AM »

Quote from: Chainsaw123 on March 08, 2018, 02:53:20 PM

Got it back from the dealership> They increased the timing 5 degrees and 25% more fuel on decel. It still misses and pops on decel. The numbers didn't change lol They said that's all your gonna get out of that set up. I'm still bewildered!

So your using Thunder Creek, it does not sound like they are experienced at tuning. Add this to a long list of why I have not been there store since 2002. There are a few dealer that do a good tune, but the vast majority do not. Unless you have a really bad parts combination there is no reason it can not be tuned right to not miss and not pop.

You need to find a Tuner who knows what he is doing. Brandon is a very good choice.

Author Topic: 117" Bolt on kit (Read 7195 times)