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Author Topic: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today  (Read 8037 times)

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UK1

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CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« on: August 13, 2018, 02:32:57 PM »

Road Glide, Street Glide and an Ultra Limited. Also lists a STAGE 1 (I don't know what that means) for each Harley model, including the CVO line.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 03:19:30 PM »

Guess I keep mine another year.

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 03:29:27 PM »

Guess I keep mine another year.

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You looking for the FLTRUSE?
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 03:40:40 PM »

Link, in case you're interested: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/2019.php

Someone, please educate me. What is the difference between CVO Road Glide and CVO Road Glide Stage - 1 ?

Make Model Engine EIM TRANS ECS EVAP (cc) (kg)
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA STAGE -1
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 S,FI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE STAGE - 1
H
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 03:52:27 PM »

Link, in case you're interested: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/2019.php

Someone, please educate me. What is the difference between CVO Road Glide and CVO Road Glide Stage - 1 ?

Make Model Engine EIM TRANS ECS EVAP (cc) (kg)
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA STAGE -1
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 S,FI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE STAGE - 1
H

One doesn't have Stage 1, the other one does.  :nixweiss:   Noticed many of the bikes are listed that way.  Guessing Stage 1 is an option or CARB is requiring that info for the report.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 03:54:50 PM »

Links to the CVO HDs, for the lazier folks like me who don't wish to click through the list:

CVO Road Glide & CVO Street Glide  https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/harleydavidson_m0050255_1923-1868_0d8_hn.pdf

CVO Ultra Limited  https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/harleydavidson_m0050255_1923-1868_0d8_hn.pdf
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 03:56:01 PM »

Hmmmm
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 04:10:33 PM »

so 114 [1868cc] is the standard engine on the 2019 touring no more 107 ?
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 04:35:57 PM »

Odd they called the 2018 a 1923cc.

wonder what stage one means on the 2019s
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 04:46:47 PM »


In the past the CVO's were already Stage I stock.  They came with higher flow air cleaners and mufflers plus a different calibration (tune) than regular models.  That was the definition of Stage I, air cleaner, mufflers, and tune.  I guess we will have to wait and see what they are calling a Stage I now. 

Jerry
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 04:55:16 PM »

Odd they called the 2018 a 1923cc.

wonder what stage one means on the 2019s

1923 cc is equivalent to 117.35 cubic inches, which was the CVO engine for 2018.  The metric designation is the most common for many governmental publications.  As a country we never did completely convert to metrics, so now we live with a combination.

Jerry
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Heatwave

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2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 05:04:57 PM »

According to the CARB engine approvals from 8/10/18 there are only 3 CVO models for 2019. CVO Road Glide, CVO Street Glide and CVO Limited. And then each model is offered in a stage 1 version from the factory??

CVO Limited and CVO Limited stage 1 https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/harleydavidson_m0050256_1923-1868_0d8_hn.pdf

CVO RoadGlide and StreetGlide and Stage 1 version
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/harleydavidson_m0050255_1923-1868_0d8_hn.pdf
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 05:49:01 PM by Heatwave »
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 05:05:02 PM »

Jerry, I agree...so.....why did they need a new carb report certification????
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skratch

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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 05:33:13 PM »

no bueno....
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 05:34:55 PM »

No news there ^ .  Many have known that Harley engines were an error message for quite some time.
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »

no bueno....

Try the links above again. They were inadvertently abbreviated.
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 06:25:56 PM »

No news there ^ .  Many have known that Harley engines were an error message for quite some time.

 :beatdeadhorse:
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 07:18:27 PM »

Jerry, I agree...so.....why did they need a new carb report certification????

I’m gonna guess they needed recertification because of a redesign that effected emissions. Is this a redesign to address sumping?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:47:07 PM by Heatwave »
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 07:20:38 PM »

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 08:38:56 PM »

so 114 [1868cc] is the standard engine on the 2019 touring no more 107 ?
I caught that too as soon as I looked at the report. It may be time to drop down to a "standard" model. Who am I kidding. I'd spend another 10k on top of that to get it where I want it.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 09:24:21 PM »

Link, in case you're interested: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2019/2019.php

Someone, please educate me. What is the difference between CVO Road Glide and CVO Road Glide Stage - 1 ?

Make Model Engine EIM TRANS ECS EVAP (cc) (kg)
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO ROAD GLIDE 1923 490 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA STAGE -1
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 S,FI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE
HARLEY-DAVIDSON CVO STREET 1923 480 M6 SFI, TWC, 2H02S KHDXU0025ACA GLIDE STAGE - 1
H

Price. They prolly charge a butt load of money for the stage 1 “upgrade.”

 :oops: :nixweiss:
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2018, 09:27:56 PM »

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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 09:53:19 PM »

Price. They prolly charge a butt load of money for the stage 1 “upgrade.”

 :oops: :nixweiss:

Here’s my guess. Stage one means high flow Street Cannon exhaust + SE tuner. MSRP bought separately would be $2000. I’m gonna guess they sell it as a $1200 uograde over a regular CVO. They will promote the Stage 1 as “cooler” with the cats moved under the saddlebags and ready for future upgrades.

Just my wild guess.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2018, 07:38:18 AM »

Here’s my guess. Stage one means high flow Street Cannon exhaust + SE tuner. MSRP bought separately would be $2000. I’m gonna guess they sell it as a $1200 uograde over a regular CVO. They will promote the Stage 1 as “cooler” with the cats moved under the saddlebags and ready for future upgrades.

Just my wild guess.

A good guess.  Will raise ya to $1500 over regular CVO MSRP, and a sticker saying Stage 1 will be on the air cleaner.
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2018, 08:10:09 AM »

A good guess.  Will raise ya to $1500 over regular CVO MSRP, and a sticker saying Stage 1 will be on the air cleaner.

You might be right but then it’ll be barely worth it. You can usually buy the exhaust and tuner for 20% off. Plus if you buy the upgrade afterwards, you’ll have the stock exhaust to sell which is probably worth $400-500. But who knows, maybe they make it a wide-band O2 setup with the tuner which might explain why they needed CARB cert.
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iski

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2018, 08:55:33 AM »

You might be right but then it’ll be barely worth it. You can usually buy the exhaust and tuner for 20% off. Plus if you buy the upgrade afterwards, you’ll have the stock exhaust to sell which is probably worth $400-500. But who knows, maybe they make it a wide-band O2 setup with the tuner which might explain why they needed CARB cert.

Good points.  But some would pay the extra for the cool Stage 1 sticker.  Harley does not over estimate the smarts of it's buying audience.  If the Stage 1 in an actual imprint (powder coat/paint) on the air cleaner they might try for the full $2k.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2018, 01:56:40 PM »


EPA certifications are updated every year, whether the vehicle involved changed or not.  Based on some of the old CARB reports I've read in years gone by, I believe the same is true for CARB.  So don't assume there was a change that affected emissions just because you see a carryover model and engine listed in the latest model year reports. 

Jerry
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2018, 02:04:33 PM »

EPA certifications are updated every year, whether the vehicle involved changed or not.  Based on some of the old CARB reports I've read in years gone by, I believe the same is true for CARB.  So don't assume there was a change that affected emissions just because you see a carryover model and engine listed in the latest model year reports. 

Jerry

Definitely wih you but clearly the “Stage 1” version of the previous models is something new. I’m guessing it has to do with an exhaust change “option” from the factory. I’m guessing HD will be offering the SE high flow exhaust (with tuner) as a CVO option directly from the factory.

By offerring the high flow exhaust, they can address some of the passenger complaints of heat from the Cat by moving the Cats under the saddlebags instead of the headpipe. Not to mention squeezing even more $ out of their CVO bike buyers.
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Re: 2019 CVO engine released and approved by CARB
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2018, 02:15:58 PM »

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2018, 02:30:08 PM »

Definitely wih you but clearly the “Stage 1” version of the previous models is something new. I’m guessing it has to do with an exhaust change “option” from the factory. I’m guessing HD will be offering the SE high flow exhaust (with tuner) as a CVO option directly from the factory.

By offerring the high flow exhaust, they can address some of the passenger complaints of heat from the Cat by moving the Cats under the saddlebags instead of the headpipe. Not to mention squeezing even more $ out of their CVO bike buyers.

I agree it's a good theory, but actually they already had to do the EPA and CARB certifications not only for that exhaust system but also for the Stage II, Stage III, and Stage IV kits.  This time the new listing at least makes it appear that whatever the Stage I is, it will be a factory installed option and not just a dealer installed kit.  It's surprising to me since in the past they always tied the  performance stuff to the dealers.  I assume a lot of dealers will be upset if Harley starts doing the upgrades at the factory level,; they've made fortunes over the years selling and installing all that stuff.

Jerry
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2018, 02:43:01 PM »

I agree it's a good theory, but actually they already had to do the EPA and CARB certifications not only for that exhaust system but also for the Stage II, Stage III, and Stage IV kits.  This time the new listing at least makes it appear that whatever the Stage I is, it will be a factory installed option and not just a dealer installed kit.  It's surprising to me since in the past they always tied the  performance stuff to the dealers.  I assume a lot of dealers will be upset if Harley starts doing the upgrades at the factory level,; they've made fortunes over the years selling and installing all that stuff.

Jerry

But the hi-flow exhaust was never a REQUIRED component of any of the Stage kits. It was however advertised as "50 state US EPA compliant" but only when used with the SE Tuner. I'm guessing they didn't move as many of these exhaust as they had forecasted due to the $1300 MSRP plus the requirement of purchasing the SE Tuner for $300 plus the labor on the exhaust install and flash.

Someone in HD marketing probably said "we need to move all these high-flow exhausts out of inventory that we haven't been able to sell, so let's clear them out on a bike straight from the factory". Who best to nick???.... CVO bike buyers. "Oh wait, we forgot that we need to get the whole package EPA approved!!!" Waalaa....the new "stage 1" ends up on the CARB certification sheet for 2019. That's my wild-azz guess.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 02:45:54 PM by Heatwave »
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2018, 03:13:31 PM »

Noticed Stage 1 is an option on a lot of the non CVO bikes also.
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2018, 03:35:04 PM »

Noticed Stage 1 is an option on a lot of the non CVO bikes also.

Good catch. I just checked and every single model of Harley being sold for 2019 has a "Stage 1" version. Including Trikes, Softails, Touring even the basic "Street 500 & 750" bikes. This might be a bigger development then just exhaust and tuner. Maybe this is a wide-band O2 sensor ECU that can "self-tune" for any upgrades to the engine and still remain EPA compliant?? Could this be a "dyno killer" self-tuning ECU???
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2018, 04:06:22 PM »

Good catch. I just checked and every single model of Harley being sold for 2019 has a "Stage 1" version. Including Trikes, Softails, Touring even the basic "Street 500 & 750" bikes. This might be a bigger development then just exhaust and tuner. Maybe this is a wide-band O2 sensor ECU that can "self-tune" for any upgrades to the engine and still remain EPA compliant?? Could this be a "dyno killer" self-tuning ECU???

No idea, it could reflect a change in CARB requirements.  Currently anything beyond HD tuners - mild modifications - is allowed to be warranty compliant.  If it self tunes that would be very, very different for HD.  Doubt it.
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2018, 04:14:29 PM »

No idea, it could reflect a change in CARB requirements.  Currently anything beyond HD tuners - mild modifications - is allowed to be warranty compliant.  If it self tunes that would be very, very different for HD.  Doubt it.

Any thoughts on what you think a “Stage 1” means that could be offered on EVERY SINGLE MODEL OF HD as a new option from the factory??
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iski

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2018, 09:35:59 PM »

Any thoughts on what you think a “Stage 1” means that could be offered on EVERY SINGLE MODEL OF HD as a new option from the factory??

Yeah, what most think, if I pondered it enough.  Stage 1 air cleaner, pipes, and a tune to match.  And a cool sticker - "Stage 1".  Might be wrong on the sticker part, might be an extra logo on the motor somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 07:45:30 AM by iski »
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Pan1

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 07:11:01 AM »

I think HD just wants to ensure complience  after the dealerships install stage 1 kits. They din t want another issue like they had with race tuners.
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Threephase

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2018, 11:35:21 AM »

Not that my thoughts are worth much but...

I think Harley will sell the bikes from the factory with Stage I,II, III, and IV already installed. That way they are insuring that the bikes are EPA compliant when they leave the plant. It will allow them to be able to enforce the warranty much stricter. And performance enhancements beyond those 4 upgrades would render the engines out of compliance of EPA standards and allow the MOCO to disavow the warranty.

My hometown Harley dealer I buy from had to sent theiir techs to a 2+ day class taught by Corporate HD on how to find ways to void or cancel warranties. HD is posturing themselves to eliminate alot of money they shell out on questionable waranty claims. And they can use the EPA settlement as a tool to define the grounds for warranty denial.

I am not condoning it, but that is the direction I see this going and will save the MoCo money because they can void your warranty if you have done anything to your bike beyond cosmetics. They can say that your modifications caused a component failure even though we know it to a design flaw.

Some parts of what I have shared or maybe all of it, or probably none of it, might be the case.

Used twin cam bike values might be going up. It would certainly drive the values of any used bike up that have no remaining factory warranty left. Then the extended warranty covers you and your torque/hp desires to go wild.


Just thinking about this makes me miss my 2015.....
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2018, 12:50:13 PM »

Not that my thoughts are worth much but...

I think Harley will sell the bikes from the factory with Stage I,II, III, and IV already installed. That way they are insuring that the bikes are EPA compliant when they leave the plant. It will allow them to be able to enforce the warranty much stricter. And performance enhancements beyond those 4 upgrades would render the engines out of compliance of EPA standards and allow the MOCO to disavow the warranty.

My hometown Harley dealer I buy from had to sent theiir techs to a 2+ day class taught by Corporate HD on how to find ways to void or cancel warranties. HD is posturing themselves to eliminate alot of money they shell out on questionable waranty claims. And they can use the EPA settlement as a tool to define the grounds for warranty denial.

I am not condoning it, but that is the direction I see this going and will save the MoCo money because they can void your warranty if you have done anything to your bike beyond cosmetics. They can say that your modifications caused a component failure even though we know it to a design flaw.

Some parts of what I have shared or maybe all of it, or probably none of it, might be the case.

Used twin cam bike values might be going up. It would certainly drive the values of any used bike up that have no remaining factory warranty left. Then the extended warranty covers you and your torque/hp desires to go wild.


Just thinking about this makes me miss my 2015.....

I only wish your prediction was accurate. It would save HD bike owners that like to upgrade ALOT of money. Just think of all the wasted cylinders,pistons, throttlebodies, heads, pushrods, injectors, air cleaners and exhaust sitting around wasting away in bike owner's garages and basements. Its insane and an enormous waste of components not to mention trash.

But I'm afraid to say its just not gonna happen. Too much money at stake to let bike owners buy their bikes already upgraded from the factory. Over 700 HD dealers would be left with nothing but bike and apparel sales plus tire and oil changes to live off of. They would revolt if they lost the significant service income of charging for the installation of the SE Performance kits.

But trust me...I would be ecstatic if your prediction came to be!!
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bbrown

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2018, 01:19:56 PM »

I only wish your prediction was accurate. It would save HD bike owners that like to upgrade ALOT of money. Just think of all the wasted cylinders,pistons, throttlebodies, heads, pushrods, injectors, air cleaners and exhaust sitting around wasting away in bike owner's garages and basements. Its insane and an enormous waste of components not to mention trash.

But I'm afraid to say its just not gonna happen. Too much money at stake to let bike owners buy their bikes already upgraded from the factory. Over 700 HD dealers would be left with nothing but bike and apparel sales plus tire and oil changes to live off of. They would revolt if they lost the significant service income of charging for the installation of the SE Performance kits.

But trust me...I would be ecstatic if your prediction came to be!!

Well said
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Cvostu

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2018, 12:27:50 AM »

 :pepper:does anyone see a 2019 cvo road glide ultra???
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2018, 06:58:17 AM »

:pepper:does anyone see a 2019 cvo road glide ultra???
Nope. And from the way the 2016s sat on dealer floors for a very long time, I don't expect to see them again any time soon.
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Heatwave

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 08:13:56 AM »

:pepper:does anyone see a 2019 cvo road glide ultra???

Unfortunately No. I would have been a buyer for sure. Looks like only 3 CVOs. Limited, RG and SG.
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ultrarider123

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2018, 08:34:28 AM »

Nope. And from the way the 2016s sat on dealer floors for a very long time, I don't expect to see them again any time soon.

The '16's suffered from the "M8 effect" with the anticipation and arrival of the new power plant in 2017 plus there weren't that many new changes from the '15's to the '16s except for some color choices.  The '15 SERGU did decent but that was because there was no '14 Road Glides and the '15 brought quite a few changes.  I'm betting we see another Road Glide Ultra in CVO colors if not in '19, maybe '20.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2018, 05:32:26 PM »

The '16's suffered from the "M8 effect" with the anticipation and arrival of the new power plant in 2017 plus there weren't that many new changes from the '15's to the '16s except for some color choices.  The '15 SERGU did decent but that was because there was no '14 Road Glides and the '15 brought quite a few changes.  I'm betting we see another Road Glide Ultra in CVO colors if not in '19, maybe '20.
May have to keep mine another year then. Really gonna suck with the fact that a new RGU has a bigger and more advance engine than my 4 year old CVO.
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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2018, 08:34:54 PM »

May have to keep mine another year then. Really gonna suck with the fact that a new RGU has a bigger and more advance engine than my 4 year old CVO.
Wait until Harley upgrades the frame and suspension on the touring line. Coming very soon.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

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DesertHOG

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Re: CARB releases 3 2019 CVOs today
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2018, 08:48:59 PM »

May have to keep mine another year then. Really gonna suck with the fact that a new RGU has a bigger and more advance engine than my 4 year old CVO.

Maybe a M8 in a 121”
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