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Author Topic: 185 miles on her...sumping  (Read 9549 times)

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sethjamto

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185 miles on her...sumping
« on: September 21, 2018, 08:10:25 PM »

Picked up my '18 CVO Limited last night...brought her back in today for Rinehart Motopro 45's and a Power Vision - canned tune as she doesn't have enough miles on her yet to run it on the dyno.  Left the dealer with the new pipes and tuner and took the longer way home.  About 2 miles from the house she lost tons of power...let it sit at home to cool down and then sat her upright and let it idle for about 5 minutes while I changed some setting on the radio.  Went for a test ride and it could barely get out of her own way pulling out of the driveway.  **EDIT** I also saw that the oil was close to a quart low on the dipstick. **

Called to the dealer and they confirm the symptoms sound like sumping.  They'll be here in the morning to pick it up.  Sucks as I was to leave out in the morning for a couple day 3 state ride....

On a side note - if they change the oil pump, etc, they already asked me about the adjustable push rods in case I do cams in the future to save labor.  I'm all for it and told them that.  Question - if I plan on staying with the Rineharts and Power Vision, no more, what is a good lower to mid range rpm cam to run (looking for more torque than HP)?  Is it even worth upgrading the cam if I don't do much else?

Sucks....185 miles on the clock and already headed back in to the shop.  I traded a '15 FLTRXS in with about 37k on her and she never had a problem....
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:24:53 PM by sethjamto »
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Heatwave

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 08:47:42 PM »

Picked up my '18 CVO Limited last night...brought her back in today for Rinehart Motopro 45's and a Power Vision - canned tune as she doesn't have enough miles on her yet to run it on the dyno.  Left the dealer with the new pipes and tuner and took the longer way home.  About 2 miles from the house she lost tons of power...let it sit at home to cool down and then sat her upright and let it idle for about 5 minutes while I changed some setting on the radio.  Went for a test ride and it could barely get out of her own way pulling out of the driveway.  **EDIT** I also saw that the oil was close to a quart low on the dipstick. **

Called to the dealer and they confirm the symptoms sound like sumping.  They'll be here in the morning to pick it up.  Sucks as I was to leave out in the morning for a couple day 3 state ride....

On a side note - if they change the oil pump, etc, they already asked me about the adjustable push rods in case I do cams in the future to save labor.  I'm all for it and told them that.  Question - if I plan on staying with the Rineharts and Power Vision, no more, what is a good lower to mid range rpm cam to run (looking for more torque than HP)?  Is it even worth upgrading the cam if I don't do much else?

Sucks....185 miles on the clock and already headed back in to the shop.  I traded a '15 FLTRXS in with about 37k on her and she never had a problem....

All I can say is WOW. I assume you fully understand that you voided your drivetrain warranty.
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sethjamto

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 09:07:11 PM »

All I can say is WOW. I assume you fully understand that you voided your drivetrain warranty.

Not per my dealer.  I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.
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Heatwave

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 09:12:06 PM »

Not per my dealer.  I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.

Once you installed an aftermarket tuner, your factory drivetrain warranty was immediately voided in the new environment.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:24:13 PM by Heatwave »
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grc

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 08:45:09 AM »

Not per my dealer.  I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.

Whoever told you that is either seriously misinformed or just lying.  As soon as you modify the street legal stock tune, you have effectively voided your warranty.  Read up on the Harley/EPA agreement that affects all 2017 and later Harley's.  And btw, that dealership is now guilty of emission system tampering, a federal offense.  The actual dealer needs to educate his employees, since he is potentially liable for some serious fines.  The government is no longer just looking the other way when Harley and it's dealers violate the law.

It's a new day in the Harley world, and unless the warranty means nothing to you the best approach is to keep it stock for the first two years or only use the street legal EPA approved kits.  I wouldn't think changing just the mufflers would be an issue, but changing things like headpipes (catalyst), cams and tuning have already cost more than a few people  their warranty, including some on this site.  You need to reinstall the stock tune and hope H-D doesn't detect the tampering, which they can easily do as soon as the dealership connects their computer to your bike.

Jerry
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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 10:36:54 AM »

CYA I would leave my cellphone in video record and have a very specific conversation with whoever is telling you the Powervision install is not voiding your warranty.
Do it before they change their tune! 
I would use dates in the conversation..."hey I just bought this Sept XX, and now Sept XX its back in the shop for warranty" 
They will be less likely to flip on you if they know they are on the hook for Federal violations.
At some point dealerships need to have accountability.   They sell you, and install an illegal tuner.  AND tell you it doesn't void your warranty!  Yikes!

Now you know!  CYA
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sethjamto

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 03:19:05 PM »

Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!

We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.

For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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SIKBIRD

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 03:54:48 PM »

Who’s your dealer?
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skratch

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 04:33:37 PM »


For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!



its all fine and dandy until something happens when you're miles away from home and have to see a different dealer.  at that point then you're stuck with renting a truck and transporting it home yourself.  or, if something happens and hd wants to send someone out to inspect your bike before they authorize warranty repair, then you're up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
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grc

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 05:49:53 PM »

Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!

We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.

For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

And I've got this nice bridge I'll sell you for next to nothing.

I hope you got that in writing, but I doubt you did.  The dealership can't obligate H-D to cover their verbal "warranty", so you have to hope this dealership will pay out of their own "pocket" when you have a powertrain failure.  In fact you may get to learn all about how the H-D official warranty works after you do an illegal mod real soon.  Good luck, you'll probably need it.

Jerry
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sethjamto

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 06:04:49 PM »

And I've got this nice bridge I'll sell you for next to nothing.

I hope you got that in writing, but I doubt you did.  The dealership can't obligate H-D to cover their verbal "warranty", so you have to hope this dealership will pay out of their own "pocket" when you have a powertrain failure.  In fact you may get to learn all about how the H-D official warranty works after you do an illegal mod real soon.  Good luck, you'll probably need it.

Jerry
My last post on this topic....I'm covered. Period. Trust me that I know this when I say it. All you naysayers can go do and believe what y'all want.

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 06:25:12 PM »

My last post on this topic....I'm covered. Period. Trust me that I know this when I say it. All you naysayers can go do and believe what y'all want.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


It is fortunate that your purchasing dealer is doing the work under warranty.  From what you've written it is obvious they are doing so as well.  Please don't assume that such coverage would be universal though. 

Your dealer may not (obviously is not) reporting fully the changes to the bike to the MoCo.  That's good for you.  It means the work happens at no cost to you.  Well done to the dealership and outstanding to you and your wallet.

That does not mean, however, that sometime later some automated system reporting might not flag your bike.  A notice universally available system wide after which it is noted from the MoCo that some compliance parameter necessary to maintain the warranty has been violated.  Your current friendly status with and efforts from your dealership also does not extend to other dealers.  Should you break down away from home with emissions non-compliant or other changes that might impact warranty coverage discovered by that foreign-to-you dealership they can just as easily tell you "no" as your local dealer is now telling you "yes."  Once this happened the bike would then be noted in national records.

Not mentioning any of this to be argumentative or arbitrary.  Forewarned is forearmed so just hoping you're prepared for either way.  Everyone should be aware of not just what they are dealing with at home in the friendly environment of their hopefully friendly locally purchasing dealer but also what you could potentially see when on the road.

What others have told you is unfortunately possible.  I'm sure everyone is gratified your local shop is not so strictly adhering to the rules they are technically supposed to as their not doing so currently benefits you.  It's good to remember though that relationships can change.  If that same dealer will bend a rule to help you now (when they can pass the warranty costs to the MoCo and not bear them out of pocket) they might be willing to bend the other way later.  We hope they will always lean toward helping you rather than their bottom line.  But when push comes to shove......  :nixweiss:
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ultrafxr

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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2018, 07:23:45 PM »


It is fortunate that your purchasing dealer is doing the work under warranty.  From what you've written it is obvious they are doing so as well.  Please don't assume that such coverage would be universal though. 

Your dealer may not (obviously is not) reporting fully the changes to the bike to the MoCo.  That's good for you.  It means the work happens at no cost to you.  Well done to the dealership and outstanding to you and your wallet.

That does not mean, however, that sometime later some automated system reporting might not flag your bike.  A notice universally available system wide after which it is noted from the MoCo that some compliance parameter necessary to maintain the warranty has been violated.  Your current friendly status with and efforts from your dealership also does not extend to other dealers.  Should you break down away from home with emissions non-compliant or other changes that might impact warranty coverage discovered by that foreign-to-you dealership they can just as easily tell you "no" as your local dealer is now telling you "yes."  Once this happened the bike would then be noted in national records.

Not mentioning any of this to be argumentative or arbitrary.  Forewarned is forearmed so just hoping you're prepared for either way.  Everyone should be aware of not just what they are dealing with at home in the friendly environment of their hopefully friendly locally purchasing dealer but also what you could potentially see when on the road.

What others have told you is unfortunately possible.  I'm sure everyone is gratified your local shop is not so strictly adhering to the rules they are technically supposed to as their not doing so currently benefits you.  It's good to remember though that relationships can change.  If that same dealer will bend a rule to help you now (when they can pass the warranty costs to the MoCo and not bear them out of pocket) they might be willing to bend the other way later.  We hope they will always lean toward helping you rather than their bottom line.  But when push comes to shove......  :nixweiss:
Exactly.  As long as they can shove it through the moco and get it approved and have them pay well A-OK.  But if it comes down to a major repair / replacement like a new motor which several of us have had well then good luck if the moco balks and wants an inspection and finds your mods which I imagine they will.  Seriously doubt the dealer would eat that cost.  Just sayin'.
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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2018, 07:38:38 PM »


They don't need an inspection, they can easily detect a non-stock tune over the H-D/Dealer network.  If the dealer is thinking they can just put the stock tune back in with the PV before connecting to the network, maybe that will work and maybe it won't.  I read elsewhere that the PV still leaves a trail in the ECM even after restoring the stock calibration file.

In this case the engine has sumped.  If there is any internal damage, especially if a new engine is required, odds are Harley will figure it all out.  I really don't care, I have no skin in the game.  I just hate seeing people be conned, or con themselves, into believing they can get away with the same things they did in the bad old days.  We've already had posts from other members on the site acknowledging the fact that Harley voided their powertrain warranty after they made illegal mods.  This guy's been warned; and he responds with "attitude".  So be it, don't expect any sympathy if bad things happen.

Jerry
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Re: 185 miles on her...sumping
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2018, 08:55:01 AM »

Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!

We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.

For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



Unfortunately your FACTORY warranty is void. But fortunately your dealer is standing behind the bike they just sold you. I would recommend never trying to get warranty work done anywhere else because you will find your bike flagged in the HD digitaltech system.

Its excellent news the dealer is covering the cost of the oil pump and cam. Lets hope they will cover the costs if something more expensive fails or the engine needs replacement (I had 3 engines replaced under warranty due to sumping).

You’ve been politely warned by guys that know what they’re talking about and been down this “road”. Just remember, you’ve been warned. Sadly you’ve also been lied to by your dealer.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:04:51 AM by Heatwave »
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