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[aushog]

I'm still a newbie, riding a 2008 seuc, wondering if the wobble is what I have felt when powering out of a corner.  Twice now, turning onto a 4 lane highway and rolling on some throttle, it felt like the back tire slipped or maybe even went flat.  The first time it happened, i even pulled over to check the air in the tires, which was OK.  I decided maybe it was a slick spot, until it happened again on very dry clean pavement. 

My previous bike was a heritage, and I never felt anything like it, even when riding much harder.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I'm not sure what hit me with this thought, but I'll share it anyway...

I got to thinking about the people that have offered ideas about aftermarket shocks and how they may help some of their issues.  (Again, not all people are experiencing this phenomenon)

So it popped into my head last night that YEARS ago I had a relatively new '71 El Camino and it of course had air shocks from Chevy.  In that system both left and right shocks were "Y" connected to equalize the pressure from side to side in normal stationary state, or at rest.  What we found in the El Camino and some of my buddy's air shock equipped cars, that when they started to sway from a load in the box or just cornering, road irregularities etc, that the air from the compressed side would raise the pressure in the other side.  This seemed to cause a slight rocking motion to some vehicles, kind of like porpoising in a boat, so to speak.  This was uncontrollable until we slowed down or straightened out for a bit.

What if our HD stock air shocks were individually hooked up?  Separate the "Y" connector and install Schroeder valve for each shock so they remain equal on each side of the swingarm...  At least in my mind it would keep equal pressure on the swingarm and not exacerbate any twisting of the swingarm causing air pressure to quickly go back and forth from air shock to air shock.

Does this ever sound remotely plausible?

This may just be a grey haired guy with a screw loose, but it seems to make sense to me.

What does everyone think?  Is this why changing out to a different aftermarket shock seems to help with the wobble? 

Granted I'm sure the aftermarket shocks have better dampening with better compression and rebound response to boot.

Thanks again for ALL the input on this.  As I said before, I tend to lean towards the, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory.

 

[Gone Fishin']

I'm still a newbie, riding a 2008 seuc, wondering if the wobble is what I have felt when powering out of a corner.  Twice now, turning onto a 4 lane highway and rolling on some throttle, it felt like the back tire slipped or maybe even went flat.  The first time it happened, i even pulled over to check the air in the tires, which was OK.  I decided maybe it was a slick spot, until it happened again on very dry clean pavement. 

Hi aushog,

No. The "high speed wobble" is not felt at the back end, but rather a movement at the front. The front wheel will seem to try to change the direction in rather quick succession, causing the handle bar to move backward/forward as if it would try to "slap the tank". In my opinion, it is much more serious, than anything happening in the back.
If anyone has a better description, please help me out.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Godeater]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

[SPIDERMAN]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

H-D has been making rubber mount frames since the early 80's Shovelhead FXR's and Tour-Glides. It's not like these frames were invented yesterday.  I find it hard to believe that any dealership would pull the chit described above BUT, I have seen very competent mechanics, guys who can build rock solid motors who have no skill in dealing with aligning a rubber mount. I've fixed a few myself that were as bad as the one above. The interesting thing is that just as our member here has described, the motor goes where it needs to be when you disconnect the offending link. They all but align themselves to within a few degrees.

B B

B B

[Hoist!]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

Excellent post godeater! There are a buncha threads on how important alignment is. Some even pooled in and bought the alignment set and are sharing it throughout the country! Why am I not surprised at what you've described regarding the dealers? That's why I say screw the warranty and either work on it yourself if you're capable, or give it to a guy who knows these bikes and you can trust to do the right thing every time!

Hoist!

[SERK3]

I'm not sure what hit me with this thought, but I'll share it anyway...

I got to thinking about the people that have offered ideas about aftermarket shocks and how they may help some of their issues.  (Again, not all people are experiencing this phenomenon)

So it popped into my head last night that YEARS ago I had a relatively new '71 El Camino and it of course had air shocks from Chevy.  In that system both left and right shocks were "Y" connected to equalize the pressure from side to side in normal stationary state, or at rest.  What we found in the El Camino and some of my buddy's air shock equipped cars, that when they started to sway from a load in the box or just cornering, road irregularities etc, that the air from the compressed side would raise the pressure in the other side.  This seemed to cause a slight rocking motion to some vehicles, kind of like porpoising in a boat, so to speak.  This was uncontrollable until we slowed down or straightened out for a bit.

What if our HD stock air shocks were individually hooked up?  Separate the "Y" connector and install Schroeder valve for each shock so they remain equal on each side of the swingarm...  At least in my mind it would keep equal pressure on the swingarm and not exacerbate any twisting of the swingarm causing air pressure to quickly go back and forth from air shock to air shock.

Does this ever sound remotely plausible?

This may just be a grey haired guy with a screw loose, but it seems to make sense to me.

What does everyone think?  Is this why changing out to a different aftermarket shock seems to help with the wobble? 

Granted I'm sure the aftermarket shocks have better dampening with better compression and rebound response to boot.

Thanks again for ALL the input on this.  As I said before, I tend to lean towards the, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory.

 

I have been thinking the samething and came up with the idea the way you did, back in the day i had a 72 340 Plymouth Duster with HY JACKER Air Shocks running H-60 rear tires in a curve the body roll was so bad it would sit down on top of the tire or even from a dead start body would sit down on top of both tires, So i ran one line to each shock, and it never happened again. Have been thinking about tring this on my SERK, And not to get rid of the wobble cause i don't have those issues, but to keep a even amount of air in each shock.

[SERK3]

I love riding the wind, and drifting where the wind takes ya. Keep loose and go with it. Leave yourself room to drift and let it fly! I love tractor trailers pulling me in their draft too!

Hoist!

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

[SPIDERMAN]

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

SERK3, If I read the above correctly, you're saying the tires on a TT are an accident waiting to happen. That you know when you install them that they will blow and shred huge chunks of rubber all over the highway. Forgive me if I sound a bit incredulous, but I find that beyond irresponsible. I find that downright criminal. I think I will print your post and keep a copy in my wallet so if I get stopped for speeding passing a truck I can explain to the LEO that I was protecting myself from potential death and dismemberment at the hands of unsafe TT's.

B B

[Twolanerider]

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

Amen there brother.  Amen for sure.  Have no problem admitting that miles per incident big trucks do a great job.  But they are big.  So when problems happen they can be big problems. 

Have ridden through the debris of a cap coming loose and the debris of wrecked trucks.  Watched loads shifts.  Often problems aren't even specificially the driver's fault at the moment they happen.  Sometimes chit does just happen.  Since it does I don't trail trucks.  And I scoot around them when passing. 

Wish we didn't have to share the road with anyone.  But that's only a nice thought.  Since we do have to share the best I can do is not spoon with vehicles so large they'd not even know it if they squashed me.

[SERK3]

SERK3, If I read the above correctly, you're saying the tires on a TT are an accident waiting to happen. That you know when you install them that they will blow and shred huge chunks of rubber all over the highway. Forgive me if I sound a bit incredulous, but I find that beyond irresponsible. I find that downright criminal. I think I will print your post and keep a copy in my wallet so if I get stopped for speeding passing a truck I can explain to the LEO that I was protecting myself from potential death and dismemberment at the hands of unsafe TT's.

B B

Spiderman, Thats about it in a nut shell, The only law on the books about tires is that that trucks cannot run recaps on the steer tires. I wish they would out law recaps all together, I hate them. When i owned my trucks and trailers i refused to run anything but virgin tires (no recaps) When you see these big chunks of rubber (gators as we call them) laying on the road majority of them are from blown recaps.

[spydglide]

One more reason that I hate traveling at night.  Hard to see and miss all that road debis on the interstate (or any road) on a black night.  Still end up doing it, but don't plan for or enjoy it.  ugggh.  spyder

[sportygordy]

Mine drops lotsa revs when I'm drafting them. I get on the bumper, pull my clutch in, and let them tow me. When I start breaking the draft, I let the clutch out, catch the draft again, and pull the clutch in again. Better be paying real good attention when doing this. TT air brakes stop real well!

Hoist!

Have you ever tried that behind a cattle hauler   

[spydglide]

Have you ever tried that behind a cattle hauler   

In the rain.........pheww    har!  spyder

[Red07]

The worst wobble i have had was on Avon Venom X tires the first time it happened to me was on the way to the 100th when i would get up to about 60-65 it went crazy. I checked tire pressure wheel alignment all was good i stopped at several HD shops no problem found after i got about 500mil on the tire it went away. I thought that it must be a bad tire but i tyred twice more and the same results. I allways put new tires on before a trip and some people  put the first 500mil on at home and don't notice it, a friend of my noticed the same thing. I love Avon's on the smaller bikes i had them on my 2000 Heritage and loved them it felt like the old tiger paw advertisement the way they griped the road, and i still run them on wife's soft tail standard.

Red07