Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sefatboyscott]

Now is a great time to make big ticket purchases, especially vehicles and certain bikes. I am in the auto business and I can tell you that the automakers really are giving cars away, how much you save depends on how much it is marked up. Basically everyone is paying dealer invoice plus whatever the dealer documentation fee for vehicles. Definitely a buyers market.

Here is where the flaming will begin. I found while out looking at bikes the following...... A demo 05 30th Ann. Honda GL1800 w/comfort and ABS package...( in other words loaded, just doesn't have GPS ). New with 1200 miles ( never titled, used as a demo at the Honda Hoot ). It has a ton of add ons, to show what people can do to their stock Wings. It has the rear deck spoiler, fog/driving lights, a 6 disk cd-changer, cb, heated grips and some appearance items. The bike stock has an MSRP of around 22 grand. It is a nice bike. After looking at the Honda and then going to my local H-D stealer I looked at some Ultra's and considered the Screamin Eagle Ultra  and began to compare the bike in my mind to the GL1800. Even if they had the same MSRP, the Honda has more hp, is plenty reliable, handles better, gets better gas mileage and has things I will still need to buy for my SE Ultra to make it have the same goodies the Honda has on it already. With extensive mods I still would not get alot of the things, for instance electronically adjustable spring load in the rear. The list of things I could not do to my ultra without spending a ton of money are too many to mention and noone wants to hear about the Honda anyhowe.

What is worth mentioning is it seems like my local dealer figures I must not want the overpriced Ultra anyhowe, since whenever I am looking at them in the dealership noone seems like they want to sell it. If I have any questions I would have to go find a salesman??? If Harley wants to grow or even compete they really need to step up the Customer service end to make it worth the extra cash for less of a machine. I love my Harleys, but you know what? I am looking for a touring bike to add to the collection. The bottom line is I just made a deal on that GL for 18,900 and I got them to add a heated Corbin seat and the first service free on a bike optioned out would have an MSRP of around 25,000.........118 hp out of the crate!

For that same cash , Harley has to offer me a stock Road King for a touring bike ( about 65hp and no goodies) ...........Flame on my friends, ride a GL1800 a few miles before you do though, but be careful cuz you will buy it!

[Twolanerider]

No flaming here Scott.  The modern wings aren't my idea of beautiful to look at.  But they are miles of ahead of what the MoCo has chosen to offer us in the way of options, accessories, convenience and even power and ride-ability.  Lots more actually usable bells and whistles.  Safety things like ABS and turning headlights.  And really too many other things to list.  I've ridden a few.  They're a bit high in the saddle to my taste; but that's likely just because they're not what I'm used to.  But everytime I've been on one I've had the same thought; there's nothing to complain about regarding the machine itself.  If something happened to cause me to choose anything other than an HD my first choice would be a modern Wing.  Bang for the buck they're hard to knock.

[SPIDERMAN]

Scott, Flaming you would serve no purpose since you have obviously made your choice. but you like a lot of other people miss the point. Rather than give you the tired old line about "if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand" I will attempt to explain. First off, ride whatever you chose with pride and respect for the other guy's ride. In my dotage, I hold out the two fingered salute to anyone who passes going the other way irregardless of make or model, since if you're on two wheels you understand more than the folks on four wheels do. As to the passion for Harley-Davidson. To me at least, it is not about high tech it is the opposite. I love seeing the motor exposed, I love the push rod covers and the oil lines. It's like the hot rod hobby in that respect. Seeing the mechanicals is a big part of the enjoyment. As to the performance,yes I like to get the most I can out of what H-D has to offer, but there's something more to it than all that. The sound and feel of a H-D is something almost primal. I often wonder if it reminds us fanatics of being in our mother's womb with the sound of the engine replacing that of the heart. Each of us who owns a Harley finds a way to make it our own. Whether that be through the products that the MoCo offers, or the huge aftermarket, we put our stamp on our rides. Yamaha is cashing in on this idea via their commercials highlighting customized Road Stars etc ( I could be wrong about the model) There is something very American about individuality, it is something we argue and debate and yet even in moments of exasperation nonetheless embrace. While there may be many thousands of Harley's out there, they still speak to that spark of individualism in all of us. And I do not discount the National Pride. Harley-Davidson is a symbol of our country. One of the last remnants of the great American Industrial Machine that once ruled the world's trade in things of substance. And so it is with all of these things; some very near the surface of our thoughts and some more instinct that we spend more than we need for a product pehaps not as good as others, but nonetheless one that speaks to our souls.
 
Big Brian

[naitram]

i think SPIDERMAN said it pretty well, ride what "moves" you, i'd rather see you happy on a wing than unhappy on HD or worse yet in a cage.  i admit i'm always joking that a wing aint a bike cause its got more gadgets than most cars but flame you, nope aint gonna do it

[sefatboyscott]

Spiderman I have the same passion for the Harley as you do. I really LOVE my CVO Fatboy! I understand everything you are saying. I would never own a Honda as my ONLY bike, but for a three bike family with two riders with their own expression already on their own hogs.........the Honda could not be a finer choice for the third slot in the garage for going those longer distances 2up and geared down than I would care to make on my Silver Sled......luggage , comfort things for the long journey etc, the point of a touring bike.If I only could have one bike, the Harley would win over anything out there. Like I said a great 3rd bike in the collection!

[hd-dude]

VERY Well said SPIDERMAN [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[OTIS]

What will be flaming will be your' a$$ when you decide you don't want it any more.

                                        OTIS

[spydglide]

there you have it folks........a politically correct passionate SPIDERMAN.  What a great retort.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]  spyder

[sefatboyscott]

I hope noone thinks that I am dismissing H-D in any way. I am just suggesting that they could do more. I am one of those guys who just happens to think the money in my wallet is important no matter what the amount is. I bet that if I recieved great customer service by the salesmen at my local H-D dealer the salesman may or may not have been able to convince me to buy a touring bike from him that day, but if he had taken just a moment to qualify my desires he would have at least prevented me from buying the Honda that day. I spend alot of time and alot of money at that dealership and I love it there. Six months ago I inquired about ordering a SEUltra, they pretty much just dismissed my question...........is it because I am only 33? I am not sure what the problem is. Honda treated me like a buyer where Harley treated me like a browser. Maybe the Harley is beyond my reach? Yet I have one of the most expensive models they ever made in THEIR service department.............seems bass ackwards to me. I learned a long time ago about what happens when we stereotype individuals. I admit to feeling almost embarrassed just even considering a Honda. My truck pulled into the Honda dealership with a big Harley emblem on the spare tire cover, big Harley decals in the windows.  Almost everything I own says H-D on it somewhere including most of my clothes........and still I baught a Honda. That would wave a huge red flag to me if I were in marketing or R&D over at H-D. If I was searching for a cruiser.......Honda would have no chance at all. If I was searching for anything other than a touring bike that I am not ever going to mod and just throw tons of miles on until she quits they could not earn my business. Stock 88 inch Road King VS GL1800 from here to California for the same money is a tough sales pitch for anyone. Believe me I sell Volkswagons and do ok with it and talk about a tough sell........lol. But at least give me a chance, don't send me out the door with my money still in my pocket to obtain a Honda........that's just bad business that has nothing to do with bikes.

[RedFXR2]

I hold out the two fingered salute to anyone who passes going the other way irregardless of make or model, since if you're on two wheels you understand more than the folks on four wheels do.

Same here.

[BobD]

Two things set Harley owners apart from Honda Gold Wing buyers. Spiderman covered most of the good stuff and said it very well. In my mind, I choose to ride a Harley Davidson because it is an expression of my individualism. That's why H-D owners buy thousands of dollars in aftermarket parts. To make it their own and a statement of who they are. Second, we buy Harley to be a part of the culture. Harley has grown a following of loyalists that now reaches around the world. People with a common bond and a feeling of being a part of something very important. Honda has not gotten to that point and may never. Yeah, there are a few Wing gatherings around the country but not to the magnitude H-D owners unite to share the adventure, share the enthusiasm and share themselves.
Enjoy your new Wing Scott. It's a technology masterpiece that Harley may never match. We'll be here waiting when you get ready to come back to the family. 8-)

[SPIDERMAN]

[highlight]I am just suggesting that they could do more.[/highlight]

Scott,  like I said in my first post  you just don't get it. As far as the MoCo is concerned they can't do more or they'll lose their identity and their customer base. Let me put it to you on more basic terms. If the significant other in your life said " oooooooh baby I love it when you do that" would you keep on doing it or not ? As to the treatment you recieve by the dealer. They are not all the same. Two pieces of advice. Find one where you do get treated the way you want and stick with them. That means when you have an issue, schedule an appointment with the General Manager and politely and firmly state your issue in non emotional terms. I would imagine people who have read some of my posts cannot picture me doing that, but I do and it works. Why ? Because when I am pleased I say and do nice things. After my crash in June, my dealer was instrumental in settling the claim with my insurer. I gave the GM of the dealership $250 to buy pizza and soda for the entire dealership for lunch. No big deal when you look at what they did for me, but it was appreciated up and down the ranks at the dealership. You wouldn't bitch your old lady and kids out all the time and never praise them ( well if you do you don't deserve either) When you're involved with something as passionate as this thing we do, you have to take care of all facets of the relationship and your dealer is a big part of that.So while I will not diss you or your ride Scott, you are a salesman, in your view of the world, everything has to be able to work on the basis of the bottom line and this just isn't about that.

Ride Far, ride often, ride safe
                                         Big Brian  

[BobD]

Part of what the MoCo has done for us is creating enduring value. The value of the bikes we buy today and their value one, two or three years down the road has historically been strong. They're much stronger than any of the metric competitors. The phenomenon that makes that possible at least partially is H-D's commitment to tradition and avoidance of fads and gimmicks. Because of that, we are willing to invest in the products with confidence we'll be in a position to recover a reasonable portion of it when we trade. I got back 100% of what I paid for my Road Glide when I traded it in on my SEUC after 18 month of ownership.
Honda's technology is undisputable. It's the value that keeps many riders from taking a chance with them. Example: right now on eBay you can buy a brand new '06 GL1800 like Scott bought for $15,999 (Buy It Now). And Scott thought he got a good deal. That's a bike with an MSRP well over $20K. This price cutting destroys customer confidence. It's the same selling strategy that has ruined the American auto market. A two year old GL1800 can be bought anytime for $11 to $12K. That's a 50% loss in 24 months. Several Honda dealers in my area still have new '04's sitting unsold. Same thing happened to my '05 Tahoe. Will I buy another one? No way. Once burnt but not willing to jump into the fire again.

[mr_magoo]

Hey don't feel bad different strokes for different folks.  I keep looking at a BMW GS 1200R and she keeps saying no.  I would agree with Naitram any bike what ever brand it is still better than a cage.

[HUBBARD]

I hope noone thinks that I am dismissing H-D in any way. I am just suggesting that they could do more. I am one of those guys who just happens to think the money in my wallet is important no matter what the amount is. [highlight]I bet that if I recieved great customer service by the salesmen at my local H-D dealer the salesman may or may not have been able to convince me to buy a touring bike from him that day, but if he had taken just a moment to qualify my desires he would have at least prevented me from buying the Honda that day. I spend alot of time and alot of money at that dealership and I love it there. Six months ago I inquired about ordering a SEUltra, they pretty much just dismissed my question...........is it because I am only 33? I am not sure what the problem is. Honda treated me like a buyer where Harley treated me like a browser. Maybe the[/highlight] Harley is beyond my reach? Yet I have one of the most expensive models they ever made in THEIR service department.............seems bass ackwards to me. I learned a long time ago about what happens when we stereotype individuals. I admit to feeling almost embarrassed just even considering a Honda. My truck pulled into the Honda dealership with a big Harley emblem on the spare tire cover, big Harley decals in the windows.