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[North Star]

Yeah, plus if the combustion chamber cleaning works, and bits or chunks of carbon are dislodged, they more than likely will get dragged around and damage the rings and sides of the pistons like what happened to me.

[prodrag1320]

Contact Bob Wood............ 

ie: GOD (LOL)

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

ie: GOD (LOL)

Not at all.........pm sent.

[Steve Cole]

Let's just use a little common sense about this spring contest. Take one in your hand and squeeze it......... it takes energy to compress it! The stiffer it is the more energy is used and you must supply it over and over again each time it is squeezed. That energy comes from the crankshaft via the camshafts turning. It is and will always be a parasitic loss at some level.

With that said, some of the energy is recovered when the spring returns to it normal expanded state but NOT all of it. Some is lost due to friction, more is lost to overcome the mass and friction of the valvetrain it must push back out of the way. So it's not a pure 100% loss but it's still a loss and the stiffer the spring the higher the loss is.

[prodrag1320]

spring pressure is a nessasary evil,with some cam profiles the pressure the pressure must be increased to prevent any valve float,but its important not to use more pressure than needed,for the parasitic loss & extra strain on the lifters.

[Steve Cole]

spring pressure is a nessasary evil,with some cam profiles the pressure the pressure must be increased to prevent any valve float,but its important not to use more pressure than needed,for the parasitic loss & extra strain on the lifters.

We have a winner, the trick is to use no more than is necessary for the job at hand. Some setups are going to require more but just to have it, for the sake of it, wears parts out faster and cost larger power losses. As you increase the pressure, the load goes up, so you need to make the proper adjustments to handle it. It's all about being efficient with what your doing that will increase durability of the parts being used.

[UltraNutZ]

so guys.. and sorry to sidetrack your springs conversations;  with all this talk of the carbon buildup, and for those that DO NOT want to change pistons, how do you get rid of the buildup without tearing the motor apart again?  I'm sure at some point that buildup affects your tune.  When I did my heads at 13k miles, I cleaned them up all nice and purty.  Less than 300 miles later they looked just like North Star's pic up top again but oily.  That's when I said screw it and modified by backplate and blocked off the oil entry back into the throttlebody.

Someone mentioned MMO sprayed into the TB a while back but never got around to doing that as I wasn't 100% comfortable in doing so.

[Foot Loose]

I thought all that carbon comes from old farts driving bikes too slow and lugging the engines     

[UltraNutZ]

Hah. This old fart don't ride like an old fart I assure you

[CVO2FIXUP]

  So, if thick carbon build up takes up room in the combustion chamber. Wouldn't that increase your compression?  And as a result increase the power?    Now I finally understand how guys on this forum are getting 130/130 from stock engine's with just a pipe install. Its all that carbon build up.     

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

  So, if thick carbon build up takes up room in the combustion chamber. Wouldn't that increase your compression?  And as a result increase the power?    Now I finally understand how guys on this forum are getting 130/130 from stock engine's with just a pipe install. Its all that carbon build up. 

It does decrease chamber volume.
If you tune a fresh engine as tight as you can, say on an Evo style engine, as soon as the client does build carbon(natural occurrence)you'll hear from him that it pings.
Scott

[UltraNutZ]

Scott, no feedback on the MMO sprayed into the air cleaner?  I was appalled to see the oily buildup that soon after replacing heads.

[Rooster]

Wonder if its all the crap they put in the gas that collects on the pistons.

[UltraNutZ]

it's that retarded EPA BS of having excess oil flow back into the intake from the top end instead of HD drilling out the damn rocker plates properly to let it go back down to the crank/cam area

[porthole]

Wonder if its all the crap they put in the gas that collects on the pistons.

Shell coolaid?

When I saw my heads-pistons at 10K I was really surprised at the amount of buildup.
Researched it some and looked into the whole "Tier" rating of gasoline. Figured it all made sense since at the time I was using whatever was the cheapest high test fuel. Typically the WaWa near my house and on the way to work.

After the bent valve repair I switched to Shell premium, based on being a top tier rated and their claims at keeping an engine clean.
When I pulled the engine apart at 56K it looked about the same as it did at 10K.