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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin' Eagle® Fat Boy® => Topic started by: speediseverything on November 16, 2008, 11:21:16 PM
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I am looking to do a few mods to my 06 SE fat boy, it already has V&H long shots and has great throttle response and never coughs or stumbles at any throttle position. Looking to spen roughly 1k - $1500.
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I am looking to do a few mods to my 06 SE fat boy, it already has V&H long shots and has great throttle response and never coughs or stumbles at any throttle position. Looking to spen roughly 1k - $1500.
I would suggest zippers 575 gear drive cams with andrews gear drive, zippers adjustable push rods, feuling oil pump & lifters & a zippers thundermax auto tune ECM. (not too sure how your budget is looking now) If you are still not happy you can simply add the zippers NADS to the existing zippers autotune you already have for a 30 hp boost when you fell you need it.
Cheers
Aussie
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I would suggest zippers 575 gear drive cams with andrews gear drive, zippers adjustable push rods, feuling oil pump & lifters & a zippers thundermax auto tune ECM. (not too sure how your budget is looking now) If you are still not happy you can simply add the zippers NADS to the existing zippers autotune you already have for a 30 hp boost when you fell you need it.
Cheers
Aussie
I would stay away from Fueling oil pump and Lifters. Too many failures for the lifters. Many test have been Performed and the OEM lifters with the Stock oil pump with Zippers upgrade on the spring is the way to go. I have zippers cams in my 113" with the above and had no problems for 9,000 miles. Read Hoist post on his rebuild to suggestions on lifters.
Later Screamin Eagle.
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What do you guys think about this kit.
http://www.zippersperformance.com/catalogue/showproduct.asp?cat=588&prod=2163
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What do you guys think about this kit.
http://www.zippersperformance.com/catalogue/showproduct.asp?cat=588&prod=2163
:smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg:
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:smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg::smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg: :smilie_daumenneg:
You should at least tell them why. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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You should at least tell them why. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
OK, I'm all buckled in; let 'er rip. :vrolijk_11:
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OK, I'm all buckled in; let 'er rip. :vrolijk_11:
It sucks.
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I thought that Zippers was the way to go, so i guess just the 575 cams and a zippers thundermax auto tune, are the adjustable pushrods a must ??. Should i also put the heavy breather on it ?? Just trying to get all my facts straight before i order the parts. Thanks guys.
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It sucks.
Damn, that was anticlimactic! I was expecting singed nose hair and eyebrows. I have noticed that if you open your window on a calm night, you can hear the sucking sound all the way from….aw crap, this won’t end well…my bad…never mind. :skull:
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I thought that Zippers was the way to go, so i guess just the 575 cams and a zippers thundermax auto tune, are the adjustable pushrods a must ??. Should i also put the heavy breather on it ?? Just trying to get all my facts straight before i order the parts. Thanks guys.
The 575 cams have proved to be a very nice set of cams for the 103" motor. Pull early and hard. No complaints. Their "ProTaper" pushrods are very stout also. Though, even with being adjustable, they are not quick install. Still have to raise the rockers or remove the lifter blocks to get them in.
The Thundermax, on the other hand, has been far from a panacea for many. And an absolutely worthless pain in the ass for several. Almost no third parties can tune with. The base map library is iffy. And if the base map isn't very very close the autotuning function doesn't have the range to bring it home. Even when it does have the range it guesses wrong far too often. Lots of guys have had trouble with. I've kept a list that's now gone to 15 that spent the money for it and pulled it off because they could just never get it to perform as it should. If there's a problem the company has repeatedly proved to be worthless too.
Some have had good luck with hardware. Those of us that did not certainly envy them. But far far far too many had difficulty with the product. And if you do god help you getting any effective support out of the company.
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Damn, that was anticlimactic! I was expecting singed nose hair and eyebrows. I have noticed that if you open your window on a calm night, you can hear the sucking sound all the way from….aw crap, this won’t end well…my bad…never mind. :skull:
Sorry DJ. I try to block it out. I was one of the first stupid assholes that Zippers asked to bend over and accept this package guinea pigs for this package. The problems were several. The problems were of two types also. Products and service.
On the service side the company was incredibly slow (even by motorcycle vendor standards) filling the order. And they just flat lied several times in the process about what they'd have and when they'd have it. Saying whatever was necessary at the time to pacify the moment. Their service and support efforts after the fact are suggested in the post I wrote immediately prior to this.
On the product side it was also a catastrophe. The initial machine work provided by them as part of this package or kit was like something out of a high school machine shop class. The cylinders looked fine. But the valve job on the heads was so poor I did it again here before using them. Seats were cut so deep you knew the heads would be back off. The final cuts and polishing of the chambers looked like they'd come straight from the CNC machine and that the machine had been cutting with a dull tool.
The package in combination also had issues. After much discussion, research, private chats and other discovery I found out that above and beyond the poor quality of the head's machine work the basic geometry they were creating for them was very poor also. Slow. Gagging.
Their response to this was to band aid the package with a far larger cam than they'd originally told me to expect as part of the package. Larger (and unmarked in any way) than they told me I had when parts arrived. The effect of their 657 cam in the little 103 motor with their head package was to create a bike that was literally unrideable in warmer weather.
The work was done during a February. Through March to mid April it was ok. Once temps hit 70-75 you'd get detonation. Significant. Once you got to 85 or ambient you really couldn't ride the bike. It would've hurt itself. It also could not be detuned such to really be anything you'd want to ride out on the highway. The engine combination just didn't play well together. Several hours dyno time couldn't make it manageable.
The dyno time was a band aid attempt after bailing on their Thundermax. It couldn't come close to managing the combination. In fact it often added timing and made it worse rather than leaning the other way. And the company was worthless.
Finally un-Zippered the bike and did The ButtonFly Resurrection. That time I did as I should have the first time and completed my own homework on everything. Brought my own bits together without relying on the reputation of someone else's shop and that their "package" would in fact play well together.
Mine wasn't the only similar experience with that 103 Muscle Kit. Unfortunately so. They might have changed the package some since those early efforts. That I can not say. But from what I've read and heard since I don't think so. God help anyone who makes an attempt at that package.
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Thanks for all the info guys. Can i get a list of the mods i should go with. My Vance& Hines long shots really work well just looking for a titch more to outrun my 110 buddies.
575 cams
heavy breather
programmer ?????
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Thanks for all the info guys. Can i get a list of the mods i should go with. My Vance& Hines long shots really work well just looking for a titch more to outrun my 110 buddies.
575 cams
heavy breather
programmer ?????
Just saw answered the PM but realize now missed one thing. Suggested that (as much as I don't care for the company) their 575 cams for the 103 are a nice product. Good early torque that stays in long enough to be fun. The Yuill Brothers cam for the 103 is a good option also. Slightly better top end but comes in a bit later.
Either cam with a good air cleaner and good exhaust will make a 103" motor and its rider very happy. That is if it's tuned properly. Which bring up your "programmer" question.
The Mastertune product has gotten a lot of write up here lately. It all sounds very promising too. Jim (HD-Dude) always has good things to say about the Twin-Tec tuning product as well. So both of those must be options worth more homework if you're looking for a "programmer," i.e., something to tune the bike with on your own.
If you're considering having it dyno tuned, however, then don't worry about the quesiton. Worry about the tuner. Find whomever is recognized as best within whatever distance you're willing to travel. Ask him what tuning device he uses. And buy that. It's that simple. You're paying somone else for their expertise. There's no reason not to give him the tool he'll do the best job with.
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Thanks, i am in rockford il and i am willing to travel to get it tuned right. Does anybody have a tuner that they swear by is really really good. Looks like i will be going with the setup below.
575 cams
Heavy breather
Mastertune programmer
Vance&Hines Long Shots
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Thanks, i am in rockford il and i am willing to travel to get it tuned right. Does anybody have a tuner that they swear by is really really good. Looks like i will be going with the setup below.
575 cams
Heavy breather
Mastertune programmer
Vance&Hines Long Shots
You'll get a better bottom end with a 2-1. Several here have been using the FatCats from D&D. But exhaust is always a trade off one way or another. The Mastertune is a hardware package that is offered to work with you to do your own tuning. I think I remember Brian (103Thunder) using a tuner somewhere upstate that he was satisfied with. Scott Dunbar used a Power Commander tuner named John Golden that is actually from where I am but whom he caught on the rally circuit somewhere much closer to you than here. Enough people have used the 575 cams that finding someone with a similar setup to yours whose map you could use as an effective stop gap until you got to a tuner might be an option also.
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I have found two dyno places close to me, one uses the pc3 and the other uses the race tuner, is one better than the other.
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I have found two dyno places close to me, one uses the pc3 and the other uses the race tuner, is one better than the other.
Different strokes for different folks. Both get the job done if the tuner is good. That's the important thing. Close to you doesn't matter. Skill of the tuner does. Ask lots of questions. Post the names of the shops on the site here asking for others potential experiences working with them. I'd go many miles for a great tune rather than using an average tuner close to home.
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I'll have to pile on here. I used the TMax and worked with the tuning aspect for months and miles. I didn't have some of the issues that others had but it's mapping capability left me looking for more. I took it off and went back to my SERT and Daytona TS/Wego unit. I found this to be far superior.
I sold it to and installed it for a guy with a stock RK. I will say that it made a huge difference in his stock bike but I shy away from recommending the TMax to anyone.
On my stock 05 SEFB I put a set of staggered Rineharts and a SERT. I used the Daytona TS and WEGO for a quick map change just to get the bike out of its lean condition.. after only five 15 minute runs and map changes the bike is way more than what I could ask for. I do a lot of tunes like this but add a few tricks to the ECM map before making the runs. Some of my riding buddies have come to me with Dyno tunes but after working with their bikes in a similar way we have been able to put a huge smile factor and butt pucker back in to their riding again.
I'm not a speed junkie but I do like to play with the throttle and like the feeling that there is way more there if I need it. It now runs like a bat out of heII for me and still gets over 40 MPG.
In closing, again I don't suggest the Tmax but they do make very good products.
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Thanks for all the help guys, talked to John Golden http://www.rollingthunderdyno.com/ and it looks like i am going with the setup below and then taking it to Joplin MO for him to work his magic.
Vance & Hines Staggerd Long Shots
Zippers 575 Cams (per CVO forums)
Head Work (per John Golden)
PC3'R (per John Golden)
HD Heavy Breather Intake (per John Golden)
I will report with the Dyno results when i am finished !!! :bananarock: :mango: :orange: :pepper: :2vrolijk_21:
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Thanks for all the help guys, talked to John Golden http://www.rollingthunderdyno.com/ and it looks like i am going with the setup below and then taking it to Joplin MO for him to work his magic.
Vance & Hines Staggerd Long Shots
Zippers 575 Cams (per CVO forums)
Head Work (per John Golden)
PC3'R (per John Golden)
HD Heavy Breather Intake (per John Golden)
I will report with the Dyno results when i am finished !!! :bananarock: :mango: :orange: :pepper: :2vrolijk_21:
That's interesting that he would suggest headwork for those cams. They were designed specifically to be used w/the stock heads that come w/the CVO 103ci motors. :confused5:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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...and, not wanting to tell you what to do with your bike but...the price of a PCIII is about what you can get a SERT for now online/ebay. IMO, the SERT is far more superior than the alternative PCIII.
Good luck with your build and .. hold on tight! :o
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Thanks guys, the reason i am going with the PC3R is because John prefers to work with that one. He said the SERT is a nice piece but the PC3R was more user friendly. As far as the head work i will just have to trust his experience on the dyno with different mods, i guess thats why i am driving 9 hours each way.
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Thanks guys, the reason i am going with the PC3R is because John prefers to work with that one. He said the SERT is a nice piece but the PC3R was more user friendly. As far as the head work i will just have to trust his experience on the dyno with different mods, i guess thats why i am driving 9 hours each way.
By all means go w/what your tuner suggests. Good luck, and let us know how it goes. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Thanks for all the help guys, talked to John Golden http://www.rollingthunderdyno.com/ and it looks like i am going with the setup below and then taking it to Joplin MO for him to work his magic.
Vance & Hines Staggerd Long Shots
Zippers 575 Cams (per CVO forums)
Head Work (per John Golden)
PC3'R (per John Golden)
HD Heavy Breather Intake (per John Golden)
I will report with the Dyno results when i am finished !!! :bananarock: :mango: :orange: :pepper: :2vrolijk_21:
That's good to see. Having John tune for you is never a mistake. He's one of the few absolutely exceptional tuners and is always worth the trip if you're willing to make it. He's also only minutes from my house. So whenever you set a time to come get the tune done be sure and let me know.
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Will do twolanerider. Thanks for all your help :2vrolijk_21:
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Sorry DJ. I try to block it out. .....
Twolane, I realize that chit hit the fan over this issue. :furious3: I can usually resist the temtation to shake the bumblebee in a jar, but the dooderator left the door wide open and this little jumping dude :smilie_staub: pushed me right through it; I simply couldn’t help myself. :devil:
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Twolane, I realize that chit hit the fan over this issue. :furious3: I can usually resist the temtation to shake the bumblebee in a jar, but the dooderator left the door wide open and this little jumping dude :smilie_staub: pushed me right through it; I simply couldn’t help myself. :devil:
It's ok DJ. Catharsis is good for the soul. So you were just doing me a favor :2vrolijk_21: .
Bringing it up again the other evening even reminded me of this thread ( http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12397.msg192586#msg192586 ) . The enlightenment later shared in that first post (and reaffirmed when you reminded me here the other night) still rings true :huepfenlol2: .