Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HD Street Performance]

Yes that's right Jason
Consider other factors that can crack the spigots like rod alignment or bearing issues. Also slipper skirt pistons with very small gauge point contact.  Just speaking generally, not specific to either the 113 cylinders or the new drop ons.
Also there was a revision to those 113 cylinders. Just an FYI the 113 cylinders are a different machining package of the 110 cylinder / liner

[Dan_Lockwood]

I worked on a HD 113 a couple of years ago and the spigots where cracked.  I talked with another shop that had seen a couple crack also.  I don't know if it was a big problem or not.  Just what I had seen.

To clear things up.  These new cylinders are steal lined aluminum cylinders, right?

Thanks for saying that.

I may have skipped a few pages about this topic, but all of what I know about HD is that all of their cylinders are aluminum with a cast iron, or steel in this case, liners.  If cast iron with steel liners, they would weight 20# to 30# a piece.

[hrdtail78]

Yes that's right Jason
Consider other factors that can crack the spigots like rod alignment or bearing issues. Also slipper skirt pistons with very small gauge point contact.  Just speaking generally, not specific to either the 113 cylinders or the new drop ons.
Also there was a revision to those 113 cylinders. Just an FYI the 113 cylinders are a different machining package of the 110 cylinder / liner

Thanks Don.  I am no metallurgist, and the little I do understand has to do with aluminum and how different alloys play along.  I didn't express myself very well above.  I am under the understanding that not all the steal liners are the same.  Not all ductile iron is the same, and not all cast aluminum is the same.  I don't see how we can accurately compare the pros and cons of each style of HD cylinders without have these important details about the materials.

IMO and what I do know of the history of HD.  I hope they worked with an outside source.  I believe these are going to be a hit and work.  If HD got with the right outside source.  As for as thin spigots go.  I have a set of ductile iron lined Axtell 124r cylinders on my bike for 30,000 problem free miles, and those spigots are .065 thinner than the stock 120r spigots.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

One reason we like to bore the 110 to the 113 is that the OEM cylinder has shown to be a stronger cylinder. Yes we have seen 113/120 cylinders with cracks in the lower cylinder area.  These where stock built 120R engines. I have seen 3 sets myself , however built 3+ dozen of them and tuned more than that.. So its not a wide spread deal.

As for the steel liner I feel that the spigot area is not of huge concern as there is little to no force put on it. Now you are also talking about a wiseco piston vs a Mahle . WAY different one is 2618 the other 4032. Then you get into the shape of the wiseco piston , aggressive taper vs under industry std . Myself not a wiseco fan what so ever but that is my opinion as a shop owner.

[HD Street Performance]

Agreed
Just remember the base casting is the same but the SE part just has a different length, +.625, and a larger spigot. OD. besides the larger bore. Plus with the longer stroke and shorter rod the turn around thrust would be higher , a perfect storm for problems.

[RoadDawg]

Have we established what the difference between the kits is?  Thought they both used the 259e

Talked to my dealer today. He was at the International Motorcycle Show in Glendale, AZ last week. Brought two 117 kits back. I'm getting one installed as of today. He told me the only difference in the race and street kit is that the race kit was tuned with a race tuner. That is it! I'll have my dyno tuned with SE race tuner this week and will post results. Funny that the attached picture shows the street kit with better torque down low than the race kit!

[KC2GIW]

Talked to my dealer today. He was at the International Motorcycle Show in Glendale, AZ last week. Brought two 117 kits back. I'm getting one installed as of today. He told me the only difference in the race and street kit is that the race kit was tuned with a race tuner. That is it! I'll have my dyno tuned with SE race tuner this week and will post results. Funny that the attached picture shows the street kit with better torque down low than the race kit!

I believe Harley developed the dyno graphs with different exhaust systems too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HD Street Performance]

Read the HD instructions for this kit. It is emissions legal yet considered High Performance parts and does not carry any warranty. Get the kit number and I will post a link to prove what I am stating. The selling dealer may make a verbal agreement to cover motor failures but let's say you slip wheels on a road trip. The dealer could deny a claim based on the 117 kit change. I know all about magnuson-moss. Would take a lawyer to argue that while you are laid up out of town.
I wish no such a thing happens to anyone but want the facts and expectations to be realistic.

[Springer Dan]

Read the HD instructions for this kit. It is emissions legal yet considered High Performance parts and does not carry any warranty. Get the kit number and I will post a link to prove what I am stating. The selling dealer may make a verbal agreement to cover motor failures but let's say you slip wheels on a road trip. The dealer could deny a claim based on the 117 kit change. I know all about magnuson-moss. Would take a lawyer to argue that while you are laid up out of town.
I wish no such a thing happens to anyone but want the facts and expectations to be realistic.

You seem to be correct per the street kit instructions. I tried to attach them but am not having any luck. Says file too large.

Installation of this kit by an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer
will not impact your limited vehicle warranty.
The kit is intended for High Performance applications only.
This engine-related performance kit is legal for sale or use in
select countries or regions on pollution controlled motor
vehicles. Check with your local Harley-Davidson dealer for
compliance requirements in your area.
A partial emissions tune-up label and a product information
label are included with this kit as a requirement of the California
Air Resource Board (CARB)/EPA emissions regulation. Locate
the emissions label on the frame tube below the handlebars

The only difference that I see is that the street kit comes with emission labels and no clutch spring and just the opposite for the race kit. According to text on Surdyke listings the street kit is for 14 and up and race kit is for 08 and up.

[North Star]

Interesting timing on this. My plan is to ship my heads and cylinders off the Steve at GMR for a head rebuild, and either .010 over pistons, or the full on 113 kit with head porting, SE 58 mm TB and injectors.

Thing is with the 117 cylinder and piston kit, I'd still want to have the piston to cylinder fit checked, and then the cylinders are new vs heat seasoned, so not sure if they will go out of round in time, like the OEM cylinders- I don't want another oil burner.

Also, this kit is an unknown entity as far as which cam works the best, how much porting/headwork, etc. Steve's 113 kit is tried, tested, and true, and puts out close to 130 squared, with lots of torque down low.

Don't think for me it would be worth the extra $800 or so in cost to go the 117 route 

[ultraswede]

Guess also that ported heads will woid the warranty, we take our chances and just do what we want with ur bikes.

Important though that one knows the risk (no warranty).

[LC110]

Any overbore sizes available on these cylinders?  or is it one and done? 

[cvo1717]

Will there be a map for this kit for the se race tuner?

[North Star]

Any overbore sizes available on these cylinders?  or is it one and done? 

I wonder that too. If the cylinders are out of round and there are no overbores available, I guess that problem can't be solved?

[KC2GIW]

I wonder that too. If the cylinders are out of round and there are no overbores available, I guess that problem can't be solved?

If they aren't round HD has been taking them back under warranty.

I know one mechanic personally that found a set of 4" jugs with one 0.0035 out of round but it was only towards the bottom of the cylinder in the torque fixture. Take it out of the torque plates and it rounds out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk