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[tlr]

on my 09 SERG I had installed catless header, Fullsac 2.25 cores and the map that Steve provided w TTS.  Bike ran great in all aspects and I enjoyed the sound.
When I got my 12 SESG i wanted something a little different so I went with V&H Power Duals and their Hi Output pipes.  I also installed Power Vision and a map thru Jamie at Fuel Moto.  Easy install and similar to my 09, bike ran great.  In all honesty the pipes are a little too loud, but thats a separate issue.  In both cases of using Fullsac and Fuel Moto the install was super easy and I give the highest marks for both companies, just great guys.  The question I have is, what is the difference in the two?  I am primarily asking about the tuners, TTS and Power Vision.  I did not get a dyno on either bike as I didn't think i needed to since they ran great, had good throttle response and good gas mileage.  Is there some benefit of one from the other.  I am asking because at some point I will be getting a '14 or more probably a '15 so doing some research now.  Thanks for the help.

[05Train]

I have a TTS on my Night Train, had one on my FLHTK.  I currently have a PV on my CVO. 

Though you'll hear differently from people, they both do the exact same thing.  I have the older TTS (black) units, and they're more cumbersome to use than the PV due to the fact that you have to lug a laptop around.  The PV, with its display, makes for a much easier to use tuner, and has the huge benefit of being able to see what cells you need to hit while doing a tuning run.

The TTS has a slightly higher sampling rate, and has a few features that the PV doesn't have yet, but I don't see that as a big deal to 95% of prospective buyers.  Neither the PV nor the TTS have the ability to record every spark event, hence the reason you need to get multiple hits in your cells.  The additional functionality simply isn't a big deal on the TTS for people who are doing a simple Stage 1 or 2.

The typical owner wants to load a base map, do a couple of tuning runs, and be done with it.  It's my experience that the FM base calibrations for the PV are better than the TTS base calibrations, so that's a big plus to the PV.

I don't regret getting a PV for my new bike.  It's far easier to get good tuning data than the TTS was, and I prefer WinPV to Mastertune for ease of use.

[skratch]

theres also the added benefit of the pv in that you can keep it mounted on your handlebars and select a 'gauge package' and continuously monitor your bike.  also, the pv unit acts as a code reader in case you have a check engine light, and can clear any faults that you may have.  that way you can determine if it is a 'hard fault' or just an intermittent that would have cleared on its own (after 50 ignition cycles)

[tlr]

thanks for the replies.  is it accurate to also say that if I want to get a tune after the install of either, TTS would easier to tune?  I have never seen or heard of a tuner that uses PV.  As i stated i may be incorrect in this. 

[05Train]

thanks for the replies.  is it accurate to also say that if I want to get a tune after the install of either, TTS would easier to tune?  I have never seen or heard of a tuner that uses PV.  As i stated i may be incorrect in this.

Not necessarily.  Every tuner's got their favorite box, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't tune something else.

[joe_lyons50023]

Both are great tuners and will get the job done.  Both tuners have tables that the other does not.  Where are you located and I could prob point you to a tuner who is familiar with PV.  Those that are not will sometimes try to sell you something else that they are familiar with.

[FLTRI]

IMO, always use whatever your tuner is familiar with UNLESS you want to pay for his education possible at the peril of your engine...and wallet.

For example, if a tuner is comfortable with power commanders and you drop a PV (or any other flash tuner) on him you will need to be patient while he gets up to speed with it.

HTH,
Bob

[whittlebeast]

With Fuel Moto, you get Jamie for support.  Worth every penny of it.  And you get a really cool display for when you want it.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

Steve from Fulsac is an active member of this site.  I am sure he will help you out any way he can.  If you can't get a hold of him.  You can always call Steve at TTS.  He is the manufacture/ designer of TTS.  That's going straight to the source.  Not an option with Vision.  Besides.  This forum is full of great info with both systems.

Having tuned multiple bikes with both systems.  Fulsac and TTS gets my vote.

[FLTRI]

...and wait till ya get a load of what's coming!!!
In Andy's words "Way Cool Stuff!"
Bob

[joe_lyons50023]

...and wait till ya get a load of what's coming!!!
In Andy's words "Way Cool Stuff!"
Bob

Yes there will be some major updates with PV within a week, and it sounds like BOB is excited.  When is the new tts update?

[hrdtail78]

What, They adding a table that is already in the TTS?   I was trained to lead from the front.  Not follow behind and copy.

I am also sure Bob was talking about the "way cool stuff" coming from TTS.  I understand you would like to spin it over to vision, but there isn't anything new and exciting coming from them.  They have a monitor.  That is the best selling point of the system, and only to a DIY guy.  If you want to tune it on a dyno.  It is cumbersome.  I said tune.  Not map VE's.  Tune a couple of bikes, and you will understand.

[Hilly13]

Really looking forward to the TTS updates, can't wait to see what the latest innovations they have come up to make the most advanced HD tuner even better, my guess is there will a flurry of updates from other device manufacturers a few months after TTS release theirs.  

[Steve Cole]

What I can tell you at this point is there will be several updates from us as we get each new feature fully tested for release. Right now there are a few various new features that have been out in Beta test in the field for a few months. Those along with the 2014 release will be coming out shortly. There are several other new items that are just getting ready to go into Beta test too. So I feel there will be updates coming out over then next few months every other week! All this new product will work on the newer interface and many of them will even work with the older black colored interfaces too.

[joe_lyons50023]

What, They adding a table that is already in the TTS?   I was trained to lead from the front.  Not follow behind and copy.

I am also sure Bob was talking about the "way cool stuff" coming from TTS.  I understand you would like to spin it over to vision, but there isn't anything new and exciting coming from them.  They have a monitor.  That is the best selling point of the system, and only to a DIY guy.  If you want to tune it on a dyno.  It is cumbersome.  I said tune.  Not map VE's.  Tune a couple of bikes, and you will understand.

I have tuned quite a few bikes with the PV on the dyno and I guess it could be cumbersome for people who just don't understand some of these things and get confused easily.  You are right there is no new tables that any company is coming out with b/c they have been in the ECM the whole time but just not exposed to us.  One table that will be exposed that TTS also allows access to is crank to run steps but I think there are some more tables that are opened up on the PV for people to tune with than there are with other tuners but I guess that's just "Leading" the way.  Yes someone with horrible vision probably does have issues with viewing the screen and reading a book but they should get glasses or contacts to help with that.  Who were you trained by?  I am also excited about the updates for TTS as I tune with it also and i believe that some good competition is what everyone needs to have progress.