www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: sethjamto on September 21, 2018, 08:10:25 PM
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Picked up my '18 CVO Limited last night...brought her back in today for Rinehart Motopro 45's and a Power Vision - canned tune as she doesn't have enough miles on her yet to run it on the dyno. Left the dealer with the new pipes and tuner and took the longer way home. About 2 miles from the house she lost tons of power...let it sit at home to cool down and then sat her upright and let it idle for about 5 minutes while I changed some setting on the radio. Went for a test ride and it could barely get out of her own way pulling out of the driveway. **EDIT** I also saw that the oil was close to a quart low on the dipstick. **
Called to the dealer and they confirm the symptoms sound like sumping. They'll be here in the morning to pick it up. Sucks as I was to leave out in the morning for a couple day 3 state ride....
On a side note - if they change the oil pump, etc, they already asked me about the adjustable push rods in case I do cams in the future to save labor. I'm all for it and told them that. Question - if I plan on staying with the Rineharts and Power Vision, no more, what is a good lower to mid range rpm cam to run (looking for more torque than HP)? Is it even worth upgrading the cam if I don't do much else?
Sucks....185 miles on the clock and already headed back in to the shop. I traded a '15 FLTRXS in with about 37k on her and she never had a problem....
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Picked up my '18 CVO Limited last night...brought her back in today for Rinehart Motopro 45's and a Power Vision - canned tune as she doesn't have enough miles on her yet to run it on the dyno. Left the dealer with the new pipes and tuner and took the longer way home. About 2 miles from the house she lost tons of power...let it sit at home to cool down and then sat her upright and let it idle for about 5 minutes while I changed some setting on the radio. Went for a test ride and it could barely get out of her own way pulling out of the driveway. **EDIT** I also saw that the oil was close to a quart low on the dipstick. **
Called to the dealer and they confirm the symptoms sound like sumping. They'll be here in the morning to pick it up. Sucks as I was to leave out in the morning for a couple day 3 state ride....
On a side note - if they change the oil pump, etc, they already asked me about the adjustable push rods in case I do cams in the future to save labor. I'm all for it and told them that. Question - if I plan on staying with the Rineharts and Power Vision, no more, what is a good lower to mid range rpm cam to run (looking for more torque than HP)? Is it even worth upgrading the cam if I don't do much else?
Sucks....185 miles on the clock and already headed back in to the shop. I traded a '15 FLTRXS in with about 37k on her and she never had a problem....
All I can say is WOW. I assume you fully understand that you voided your drivetrain warranty.
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All I can say is WOW. I assume you fully understand that you voided your drivetrain warranty.
Not per my dealer. I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.
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Not per my dealer. I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.
Once you installed an aftermarket tuner, your factory drivetrain warranty was immediately voided in the new environment.
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Not per my dealer. I only did the slip ons and power vision, per their suggestion so that I would maintain the warranty.
Whoever told you that is either seriously misinformed or just lying. As soon as you modify the street legal stock tune, you have effectively voided your warranty. Read up on the Harley/EPA agreement that affects all 2017 and later Harley's. And btw, that dealership is now guilty of emission system tampering, a federal offense. The actual dealer needs to educate his employees, since he is potentially liable for some serious fines. The government is no longer just looking the other way when Harley and it's dealers violate the law.
It's a new day in the Harley world, and unless the warranty means nothing to you the best approach is to keep it stock for the first two years or only use the street legal EPA approved kits. I wouldn't think changing just the mufflers would be an issue, but changing things like headpipes (catalyst), cams and tuning have already cost more than a few people their warranty, including some on this site. You need to reinstall the stock tune and hope H-D doesn't detect the tampering, which they can easily do as soon as the dealership connects their computer to your bike.
Jerry
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CYA I would leave my cellphone in video record and have a very specific conversation with whoever is telling you the Powervision install is not voiding your warranty.
Do it before they change their tune!
I would use dates in the conversation..."hey I just bought this Sept XX, and now Sept XX its back in the shop for warranty"
They will be less likely to flip on you if they know they are on the hook for Federal violations.
At some point dealerships need to have accountability. They sell you, and install an illegal tuner. AND tell you it doesn't void your warranty! Yikes!
Now you know! CYA
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Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!
We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.
For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Who’s your dealer?
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For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!
its all fine and dandy until something happens when you're miles away from home and have to see a different dealer. at that point then you're stuck with renting a truck and transporting it home yourself. or, if something happens and hd wants to send someone out to inspect your bike before they authorize warranty repair, then you're up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
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Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!
We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.
For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
And I've got this nice bridge I'll sell you for next to nothing.
I hope you got that in writing, but I doubt you did. The dealership can't obligate H-D to cover their verbal "warranty", so you have to hope this dealership will pay out of their own "pocket" when you have a powertrain failure. In fact you may get to learn all about how the H-D official warranty works after you do an illegal mod real soon. Good luck, you'll probably need it.
Jerry
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And I've got this nice bridge I'll sell you for next to nothing.
I hope you got that in writing, but I doubt you did. The dealership can't obligate H-D to cover their verbal "warranty", so you have to hope this dealership will pay out of their own "pocket" when you have a powertrain failure. In fact you may get to learn all about how the H-D official warranty works after you do an illegal mod real soon. Good luck, you'll probably need it.
Jerry
My last post on this topic....I'm covered. Period. Trust me that I know this when I say it. All you naysayers can go do and believe what y'all want.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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My last post on this topic....I'm covered. Period. Trust me that I know this when I say it. All you naysayers can go do and believe what y'all want.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
It is fortunate that your purchasing dealer is doing the work under warranty. From what you've written it is obvious they are doing so as well. Please don't assume that such coverage would be universal though.
Your dealer may not (obviously is not) reporting fully the changes to the bike to the MoCo. That's good for you. It means the work happens at no cost to you. Well done to the dealership and outstanding to you and your wallet.
That does not mean, however, that sometime later some automated system reporting might not flag your bike. A notice universally available system wide after which it is noted from the MoCo that some compliance parameter necessary to maintain the warranty has been violated. Your current friendly status with and efforts from your dealership also does not extend to other dealers. Should you break down away from home with emissions non-compliant or other changes that might impact warranty coverage discovered by that foreign-to-you dealership they can just as easily tell you "no" as your local dealer is now telling you "yes." Once this happened the bike would then be noted in national records.
Not mentioning any of this to be argumentative or arbitrary. Forewarned is forearmed so just hoping you're prepared for either way. Everyone should be aware of not just what they are dealing with at home in the friendly environment of their hopefully friendly locally purchasing dealer but also what you could potentially see when on the road.
What others have told you is unfortunately possible. I'm sure everyone is gratified your local shop is not so strictly adhering to the rules they are technically supposed to as their not doing so currently benefits you. It's good to remember though that relationships can change. If that same dealer will bend a rule to help you now (when they can pass the warranty costs to the MoCo and not bear them out of pocket) they might be willing to bend the other way later. We hope they will always lean toward helping you rather than their bottom line. But when push comes to shove...... :nixweiss:
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It is fortunate that your purchasing dealer is doing the work under warranty. From what you've written it is obvious they are doing so as well. Please don't assume that such coverage would be universal though.
Your dealer may not (obviously is not) reporting fully the changes to the bike to the MoCo. That's good for you. It means the work happens at no cost to you. Well done to the dealership and outstanding to you and your wallet.
That does not mean, however, that sometime later some automated system reporting might not flag your bike. A notice universally available system wide after which it is noted from the MoCo that some compliance parameter necessary to maintain the warranty has been violated. Your current friendly status with and efforts from your dealership also does not extend to other dealers. Should you break down away from home with emissions non-compliant or other changes that might impact warranty coverage discovered by that foreign-to-you dealership they can just as easily tell you "no" as your local dealer is now telling you "yes." Once this happened the bike would then be noted in national records.
Not mentioning any of this to be argumentative or arbitrary. Forewarned is forearmed so just hoping you're prepared for either way. Everyone should be aware of not just what they are dealing with at home in the friendly environment of their hopefully friendly locally purchasing dealer but also what you could potentially see when on the road.
What others have told you is unfortunately possible. I'm sure everyone is gratified your local shop is not so strictly adhering to the rules they are technically supposed to as their not doing so currently benefits you. It's good to remember though that relationships can change. If that same dealer will bend a rule to help you now (when they can pass the warranty costs to the MoCo and not bear them out of pocket) they might be willing to bend the other way later. We hope they will always lean toward helping you rather than their bottom line. But when push comes to shove...... :nixweiss:
Exactly. As long as they can shove it through the moco and get it approved and have them pay well A-OK. But if it comes down to a major repair / replacement like a new motor which several of us have had well then good luck if the moco balks and wants an inspection and finds your mods which I imagine they will. Seriously doubt the dealer would eat that cost. Just sayin'.
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They don't need an inspection, they can easily detect a non-stock tune over the H-D/Dealer network. If the dealer is thinking they can just put the stock tune back in with the PV before connecting to the network, maybe that will work and maybe it won't. I read elsewhere that the PV still leaves a trail in the ECM even after restoring the stock calibration file.
In this case the engine has sumped. If there is any internal damage, especially if a new engine is required, odds are Harley will figure it all out. I really don't care, I have no skin in the game. I just hate seeing people be conned, or con themselves, into believing they can get away with the same things they did in the bad old days. We've already had posts from other members on the site acknowledging the fact that Harley voided their powertrain warranty after they made illegal mods. This guy's been warned; and he responds with "attitude". So be it, don't expect any sympathy if bad things happen.
Jerry
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Just left the dealer. Everything WILL be covered 100%!
We're also doing Woods 22x while they are in there.....and YES, THEY ARE COVERING THAT TOO.
For all those that say warranty is shot, find you a better dealer to work with!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Unfortunately your FACTORY warranty is void. But fortunately your dealer is standing behind the bike they just sold you. I would recommend never trying to get warranty work done anywhere else because you will find your bike flagged in the HD digitaltech system.
Its excellent news the dealer is covering the cost of the oil pump and cam. Lets hope they will cover the costs if something more expensive fails or the engine needs replacement (I had 3 engines replaced under warranty due to sumping).
You’ve been politely warned by guys that know what they’re talking about and been down this “road”. Just remember, you’ve been warned. Sadly you’ve also been lied to by your dealer.
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And now he has flagged his Dealer to be investigated by the EPA for compliance violations.
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Picked up my '18 CVO Limited last night...brought her back in today for Rinehart Motopro 45's and a Power Vision - canned tune as she doesn't have enough miles on her yet to run it on the dyno. Left the dealer with the new pipes and tuner and took the longer way home. About 2 miles from the house she lost tons of power...let it sit at home to cool down and then sat her upright and let it idle for about 5 minutes while I changed some setting on the radio. Went for a test ride and it could barely get out of her own way pulling out of the driveway. **EDIT** I also saw that the oil was close to a quart low on the dipstick. **
Called to the dealer and they confirm the symptoms sound like sumping. They'll be here in the morning to pick it up. Sucks as I was to leave out in the morning for a couple day 3 state ride....
On a side note - if they change the oil pump, etc, they already asked me about the adjustable push rods in case I do cams in the future to save labor. I'm all for it and told them that. Question - if I plan on staying with the Rineharts and Power Vision, no more, what is a good lower to mid range rpm cam to run (looking for more torque than HP)? Is it even worth upgrading the cam if I don't do much else?
Sucks....185 miles on the clock and already headed back in to the shop. I traded a '15 FLTRXS in with about 37k on her and she never had a problem....
With respects to his original question.....has anyone changed the cam in their M8 and wish to share before and after info?
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With respects to his original question.....has anyone changed the cam in their M8 and wish to share before and after info?
So yes I have.... ‘17 CVOSG w Stage lll kit, Wood WM8-222 cam, FM 2-1-2 header, Steet Cannons and PV tuner. Dyno’d in at 123HP/130TQ. Don’t have the pre-cam numbers in front of me.
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My last post on this topic....I'm covered. Period. Trust me that I know this when I say it. All you naysayers can go do and believe what y'all want.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
As a new forum member you've sought advice, been given good information that you didn't want to hear, so you've chosen to disregard it. Here's the problem...the dealership has written a check they can't possibly guarantee. The HD factory owns the warranty and they issued it, not the dealership. The factory has the final say-so on warranty issues, not the dealership. You were given a verbal promise, apparently by an employee, that may not be working there in six months and will have convenient memory loss if questioned. Those verbal promises aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. This is easily resolved...ask the dealership to place in writing what you were told. I suspect you'll see sudden obfuscation.
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To quote an old saying, the OP will be in for a "rude awakinging"
Well ya tried to warn him
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He has some hard lessons to learn. Many others will follow in his footsteps.
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And I've got this nice bridge I'll sell you for next to nothing.
I hope you got that in writing, but I doubt you did. The dealership can't obligate H-D to cover their verbal "warranty", so you have to hope this dealership will pay out of their own "pocket" when you have a powertrain failure. In fact you may get to learn all about how the H-D official warranty works after you do an illegal mod real soon. Good luck, you'll probably need it.
Jerry
Jerry, i realize you are an old grumpy fart, but respectfully, as a guy who rides a 13 year old CVO, what do you know about what the dealers are doing these days? If you buy parts from an HD dealer and they install it, you have a receipt evidencing same. If that ends up causing a problem, the dealer is on the hook as well as HD as their authorized dealer. At that point, do you care who pays to fix your bike? By law, in a product liability claim, you can go after everyone in the chain of distribution.
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YUP ! have a friend in OK that had motor work dome by dealer there. he came to Va & had motor failure. bike was ( supposed to be under factory, MOCO warranty) dealer here couldn't & wouldn't do repair work. had to load the bike up on truck(he bought my bro p/u) drive it back to OK for repair. figure the cost & aggrevation of buying or renting a vehicle (that you didn't need). one year later he came back to Va. while here traded it on a CVO. the Va dealer told us that as they were going thru the bike the moter was about to explode again. they had to eat the cost of repairs & making it right. this I know first hand, not a hear-say from someone else. like everyone has said, once you get out away from your dealer, YOU ARE SCREWED & it does go into a database that goes to the MOCO. there's a dealer in Greenville TN that told us they would note in the database to the MOCO if you even changed slip on mufflers. I wouldn't buy nothing from them. told the group I was with "time to go, don't even use their toilet".
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YUP ! have a friend in OK that had motor work dome by dealer there. he came to Va & had motor failure. bike was ( supposed to be under factory, MOCO warranty) dealer here couldn't & wouldn't do repair work. had to load the bike up on truck(he bought my bro p/u) drive it back to OK for repair. figure the cost & aggrevation of buying or renting a vehicle (that you didn't need). one year later he came back to Va. while here traded it on a CVO. the Va dealer told us that as they were going thru the bike the moter was about to explode again. they had to eat the cost of repairs & making it right. this I know first hand, not a hear-say from someone else. like everyone has said, once you get out away from your dealer, YOU ARE SCREWED & it does go into a database that goes to the MOCO. there's a dealer in Greenville TN that told us they would note in the database to the MOCO if you even changed slip on mufflers. I wouldn't buy nothing from them. told the group I was with "time to go, don't even use their toilet".
Recording changes to your bike in the HD database is now the norm, not the exception. That’s the reality. You’re simply not going to find dealers going forward that are willing to risk violating their franchise agreement to bend rules for a single customer. The remaining dealers out there still bending franchise rules will be corrected or jettisoned. Its the new world. You can no longer have it both ways. Break the rules and you forfeit your Warranty. Its really that simple now.
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Jerry, i realize you are an old grumpy fart, but respectfully, as a guy who rides a 13 year old CVO, what do you know about what the dealers are doing these days? If you buy parts from an HD dealer and they install it, you have a receipt evidencing same. If that ends up causing a problem, the dealer is on the hook as well as HD as their authorized dealer. At that point, do you care who pays to fix your bike? By law, in a product liability claim, you can go after everyone in the chain of distribution.
You miss the point. You don't have to be familiar with a HD dealer to determine their verbal claim is meaningless. It would be meaningless and unenforceable no matter the business, whether it be General Motors or Samsung. Go to an attorney and repeat the OPs claim that the dealership issued a verbal warranty, in violation of the factory warranty, and see what the response is. Again, if you believe the dealership is willing to accept the liability of violating the factory warranty then ask for their promise in writing. That's something you're never going to get.
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Wow very sad to read. Over on HDForums a guy posted a video of buckets of boiling oil dumping from his crankcase. The bike is a BRAND NEW STOCK 2019 CVO RG in Red Pepper. Less than 1000 miles on the bike. Its shocking but the video looks exactly the same as my own video when the boiling oil was dumped from my own 2017 CVO Limited after sumping.
HD has a very serious problem on their hands. I am now convinced the M8 engine requires a complete redesign. If after 3 model years and tons of oil pump redesigns, they are still having brand new bikes sump .... well.... I’m afraid this is going to get ugly before it gets better.
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Wow very sad to read. Over on HDForums a guy posted a video of buckets of boiling oil dumping from his crankcase. The bike is a BRAND NEW STOCK 2019 CVO RG in Red Pepper. Less than 1000 miles on the bike. Its shocking but the video looks exactly the same as my own video when the boiling oil was dumoed from my own 2017 CVO Limited after sumping.
HD has a very serious problem on their hands. I am now convinced the M8 engine requires a complete redesign. If after 3 model years and tons of oil pump redesigns, they are still having brand new bikes sump .... well.... I’m afraid this is going to get ugly before it gets better.
Going to? :-\
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Going to? :-\
Thanks for the clarification. Should have said “I’m afraid this is going to get MUCH uglier before it gets better!”
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For me if even one stock '19 sumps the M8 engine design still isn't corrected, even with the multiple new pumps and pump seal. Unfortunately this is going to really hurt the MoCo in today's market. Bad news travels fast.
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i have the cvo roadglide 2019 120 km and sumped ...... so 2019 also sumping year......
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that is crappy to hear that the 2019 CVO also have the sumping problem :-[.
I wanted to trade my CVO Road King these days and order a CVO Road Glide (Red Pepper) ....
I should think about it for a few more days or maybe keep my perfect running King for a while 8)
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They don't need an inspection, they can easily detect a non-stock tune over the H-D/Dealer network. If the dealer is thinking they can just put the stock tune back in with the PV before connecting to the network, maybe that will work and maybe it won't. I read elsewhere that the PV still leaves a trail in the ECM even after restoring the stock calibration file.
In this case the engine has sumped. If there is any internal damage, especially if a new engine is required, odds are Harley will figure it all out. I really don't care, I have no skin in the game. I just hate seeing people be conned, or con themselves, into believing they can get away with the same things they did in the bad old days. We've already had posts from other members on the site acknowledging the fact that Harley voided their powertrain warranty after they made illegal mods. This guy's been warned; and he responds with "attitude". So be it, don't expect any sympathy if bad things happen.
Jerry
Jerry, every kid has to stick their finger in the light socket at some point in their life....how do you expect them to learn anything? The site folks have warned him and this time, the power was off. Next time, the juice may be on and he's shocked... :nixweiss:
It's also very concerning that the '19 models are having the same issues as the previous two years of M8 with legal OR illegal modifications... >:(
I'm with you fellers on glad that his dealer has covered their customer even with these warranty killing modifications (they installed).
However, woe unto those that trust the devil....he will turn on you faster than Earnhardt at Bristol...
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Jerry:
I agree with your assessment compketely.
The main issue is going to occur if he travels outside the selling dealers area, runs ino a problem and has to have service at another dealer. Then the mods will show up and they will flag the bike and cancel the warranty.
Best regards
Jerry
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I don't even see this guy being safe with his own dealer.
For now it appears they have kept their word to the new buyer.
But, and there is always a butt!
It only takes one new employee or manager at his dealership to change the store policy or to find out that several in the dealership are not complying with the "current" policy.
Sucks that this still happens!
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I don't even see this guy being safe with his own dealer.
For now it appears they have kept their word to the new buyer.
But, and there is always a butt!
It only takes one new employee or manager at his dealership to change the store policy or to find out that several in the dealership are not complying with the "current" policy.
Sucks that this still happens!
More importantly I believe this dealer dumps this customer the moment the warranty claim gets serious. Its nothing for a dealer to cover the cost of an oil pump. Let’s watch how fast this dealership bails on this guy if he has to replace an entire engine under warranty. There are posts of multiple 2019 CVOs having sumped. Therefore the LATEST oil pump can be assumed NOT to resolve sumping.
Folks we’re going to be seeing lots of new forum members in the coming months with very sad stories. Buckle up.
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Jerry, i realize you are an old grumpy fart, but respectfully, as a guy who rides a 13 year old CVO, what do you know about what the dealers are doing these days? If you buy parts from an HD dealer and they install it, you have a receipt evidencing same. If that ends up causing a problem, the dealer is on the hook as well as HD as their authorized dealer. At that point, do you care who pays to fix your bike? By law, in a product liability claim, you can go after everyone in the chain of distribution.
I guess that I am rapidly approaching the point where I am unable to make comments about dealers. Dang, old age sucks.
:oops: :nixweiss:
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The critical question for 2019 sumpers is what oil pump assembly was installed. If an older 2018 design was used during early production it may be prone to sumping more than the current design with the larger seal described here and in other Forums.
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The critical question for 2019 sumpers is what oil pump assembly was installed. If an older 2018 design was used during early production it may be prone to sumping more than the current design with the larger seal described here and in other Forums.
Indeed would be interesting to know, both these 2019 cvo cases are Red pepper, so could be the colour batch Moco done early in production?
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The critical question for 2019 sumpers is what oil pump assembly was installed. If an older 2018 design was used during early production it may be prone to sumping more than the current design with the larger seal described here and in other Forums.
Very good point and one with merit... :2vrolijk_21:
....if not for the fact 2017, 2018 and now 2019 owners are still experiencing and we are still well into discussing sumping issues three model years into the M8 reign. To me that trumps (little t) whatever be da kurent fix... :)
The comment on Indian and how they handled the 116 issues should be a shining example to the MoCo....but it won't be.
2001, I bought one of the first local 2001 Honda 1800 Goldwings (didn't keep it long...another story) and before I had it two months, Honda called it back for three recalls. Volumes spoken.... ;)
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The critical question for 2019 sumpers is what oil pump assembly was installed. If an older 2018 design was used during early production it may be prone to sumping more than the current design with the larger seal described here and in other Forums.
That question is easily answered. The manuals and product schematics clearly show the new oil pump design in 2019 M8 bikes. Also worth noting they have not updated SB1450 to include 2019 M8s which assumes the new 2019 design would have addressed sumping. Clearly HD had no interest in truly testing this new design under real road condition testing.
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Pictures in the SM and early production as-built parts "may" be different. The SM reflects that was intended to be installed when it was printed. However I can't argue either point until someone opens up a 2019 sumper and has a look at what's there. If the new design pump parts are in there then that's not a fix is it? This question will be answered soon.
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Pictures in the SM and early production as-built parts "may" be different. The SM reflects that was intended to be installed when it was printed. However I can't argue either point until someone opens up a 2019 sumper and has a look at what's there. If the new design pump parts are in there then that's not a fix is it? This question will be answered soon.
HD shut down manufacturing back in April/May 2018 to convert over to the new MY manufacturing. All the 2019s will have the same design. They would have no reason to make changes until after reports of issues in the marketplace. Just like we're seeing now. I won't be surprised to see an update to SB1450 within a few weeks to include all 2019 M8s with some new, slightly modified gasket. Its all BS until they redesign the M8 engine IMO.
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We'll just have to see what's installed. I copied the new part and seal from another thread here. Note the date on the box from September. It may be that they were available earlier this year for production. Time will tell.
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I hate to suggest this, I think HD knows they have us by the cojones.
They knew that we, the buying public love to modify the bike, more so than any other bike out there. We love cams, intakes, exhaust, and tuning. And with their new policy in place, why would they ever change anything knowing they can easily dump ALL failures as soon as we change stuff on the bike. They have no incentive to do so. Do other manufacturers have the same kind of no tampering policy?
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in theory, yes. since the 'no tampering' is to keep the bike within federal epa specifications and it is against federal law to take it out of those specifications.
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my 2019 was sumping it has the 2018 problem o ring now its been updated to the 2019 seal hope this works
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I hate to suggest this, I think HD knows they have us by the cojones.
They knew that we, the buying public love to modify the bike, more so than any other bike out there. We love cams, intakes, exhaust, and tuning. And with their new policy in place, why would they ever change anything knowing they can easily dump ALL failures as soon as we change stuff on the bike. They have no incentive to do so. Do other manufacturers have the same kind of no tampering policy?
As I have posted here I have a BMW Grand America coming in next week. Dealer is installing full aftermarket exhaust system as well as few other "goodies" and when I asked about the warranty he said "no problem as long as we don't try to warranty the aftermarket parts". They said they do it all the time and BMW has no problems with it. Obviously I have never heard the Remus exhaust I bought since I have never even looked at a BMW before so a couple of Saturdays ago they called me (my office right across the street from them) because a customer of theirs with the exhaust was in and I could come over and see/hear it. Super nice guy that has had his bike for around a year and has had a couple of issues and he said same thing about the warranty. Dealer installed and he has never had an issue.
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my 2019 was sumping it has the 2018 problem o ring now its been updated to the 2019 seal hope this works
OMG i have an 18 road glide i hope it doesn't have this problem seal. If it does I hope me putting on my own mufflers doesn't void the warranty . I got 1400 ish miles now.
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Jerry, i realize you are an old grumpy fart, but respectfully, as a guy who rides a 13 year old CVO, what do you know about what the dealers are doing these days? If you buy parts from an HD dealer and they install it, you have a receipt evidencing same. If that ends up causing a problem, the dealer is on the hook as well as HD as their authorized dealer. At that point, do you care who pays to fix your bike? By law, in a product liability claim, you can go after everyone in the chain of distribution.
In spite of HDs Fine, EPA Settlement, Mandate, whatever,,, This is nothing new,,,
I went through a similar issue on my '09 SERG in 2013 after a lifter failure took out the Engine, (SE Stage III Kit), My Dealer GM learned a lesson on that one, he stood behind his word and replaced everything except the chrome Engine covers. To reinstate ESP I was required to (per Harley) to run everything stock (including cat & tune), the GM was told that if his Dealership made any mods, any mods at all, to the Drivetrain while under ESP that they would talk about jerking his flag (Franchise)... So, with help from my Dealer, we went to Plan B, aftermarket parts, no ESP, and he would stand behind it, worked well until the Owner sold to one of the "used car dealers"...
Yes, you probably have legal recourse against your Dealer in the events that you outlined,,, I'd be curious to see how that works out for you? I have enough difficulty with dealerships being a "good customer"... It might be different for you? just a recent hobby? After 43 years on HDs I don't want any other Bike...
As far as correlating having a new CVO serviced at the Dealer to be considered "current", LMAO! There are folks (some of them are on this Forum) that are on the cutting edge of HD Technology, developing new Technologies for HDs, that don't set foot in a Dealership unless they absolutely have to...
As far as Jerry being "current",,, In my years on CVO Harley, I've garnered tons of good information (all models) from reading Jerry's posts, never found anything to be even remotely incorrect,,, IMO Jerry is a great asset here :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
"Another Grouchy Old Fart"
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AGREED!!
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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I also concur with FLaHeatWave on comment about Jerry. :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
And I ain’t grouchy at all, maybe :orange:
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Definitely concur!!
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I've always enjoyed Jerry's 2 cents :drink:
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That question is easily answered. The manuals and product schematics clearly show the new oil pump design in 2019 M8 bikes. Also worth noting they have not updated SB1450 to include 2019 M8s which assumes the new 2019 design would have addressed sumping. Clearly HD had no interest in truly testing this new design under real road condition testing.
This is out of my 2019 Touring Service manual. As you can see it states early and late oil pump housing. This manual would have had to have been put together and printed months ago. So why did they put the old housing on the 19s when they knew there was a better one.
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This is out of my 2019 Touring Service manual. As you can see it states early and late oil pump housing. This manual would have had to have been put together and printed months ago. So why did they put the old housing on the 19s when they knew there was a better one.
The answer to your question is simple, HD had already purchased the early model pump housing and was not going to throw them away. So they installed the early model until they ran out, then they switched to the late model. It is all about the $$$
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Read all the posts sad to say I will never spend the money on a new Harley again. If they can't guarantee their quality I'm certainly not going to spend my own cash to fix their mistakes.
I really wanted a 2019 but I wanted to be able to change pipes cams and tuner. Not willing to gamble $40,000.00 on a shot my dealer may or may not cover repairs.
Great post though very informative to those that listen. Thank you.
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Read all the posts sad to say I will never spend the money on a new Harley again. If they can't guarantee their quality I'm certainly not going to spend my own cash to fix their mistakes.
I really wanted a 2019 but I wanted to be able to change pipes cams and tuner. Not willing to gamble $40,000.00 on a shot my dealer may or may not cover repairs.
Great post though very informative to those that listen. Thank you.
On the other hand this is the doom and gloom club. Many more good dealers out there that follow internet BS and know the big mouth players....... I personally have seen 2 bikes highly modded at dealers get warrantie work with a nod and a wink. ( needs to go back to dealer that did the work)But if you broadcast day after day ...hour after hour about your expertise in Harley warranty issues ? Your done all over the country. Lol. One poster here will be waiting a very long time from what I was told by 3 different dealers in 3 states north of him if he ever shows at there dealership . So basically his mouth has voided his warranty. Lmao!!!
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On the other hand this is the doom and gloom club. Many more good dealers out there that follow internet BS and know the big mouth players....... I personally have seen 2 bikes highly modded at dealers get warrantie work with a nod and a wink. ( needs to go back to dealer that did the work)But if you broadcast day after day ...hour after hour about your expertise in Harley warranty issues ? Your done all over the country. Lol. One poster here will be waiting a very long time from what I was told by 3 different dealers in 3 states north of him if he ever shows at there dealership . So basically his mouth has voided his warranty. Lmao!!!
Your own remarks only reinforce the point. The dealers have having to knowingly violate both company rules and (in some cases) Federal law to do the work that is being discussed.
Should they? For the rider who is suffering he's always going to say "of course!" It's a slippery slope though. If a dealer is willing to break a rule to help me (at a time when this help presumably helps me and, by association, helps him by keeping his customer happy when the MoCo is footing the warranty bill by a "nod and a wink") I as his consumer can have no faith he might just as easily or as quickly lean the other way when it happens the MoCo isn't paying the bill. The only thing I can know is he's willing to break a rule. A rule, by the way, that is not insignificant.
I'm not one that advocates that we should expect the dealers to go beyond legitimate and stated warranty obligation. I believe we can read and know the rules and it's beneath us to whine when we don't get what are actually freebies or bennies above and beyond the contractual and statutory obligations. I might and would have a complaint when those obligations seem to be a moving target chosen at the manufacturer's whim. But arguing that "nod and a wink" policy making choices are good choices in now way suggests sound policy or honest operations.
"Warrantie" (sic) notwithstanding, what we need is a fair, honest, and defined playing field.
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On the other hand this is the doom and gloom club. Many more good dealers out there that follow internet BS and know the big mouth players....... I personally have seen 2 bikes highly modded at dealers get warrantie work with a nod and a wink. ( needs to go back to dealer that did the work)But if you broadcast day after day ...hour after hour about your expertise in Harley warranty issues ? Your done all over the country. Lol. :mango: . So basically his mouth has voided his warranty. Lmao!!!
So the dealers follow the forums closely enough they know riders by their screen names?
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So the dealers follow the forums closely enough they know riders by their screen names?
Of course they do. Makes perfect sense too. Every city or at-best regional covering dealer has staff paid to absorb man-hours and company equipment to surf the web. Their very being (and job title) is defined by absorbing all that is on the interweb looking for malcontents (world wide!) that would never be in range to actually spend money at that dealership so those strangers to the dealer's area of operations can be blackballed. It makes perfect sense. How could one doubt that this is so?
I know I personally get several phone calls every week that are from some unknown phone number. I am also of adamantine certainty that each of those calls are from Harley shops who are using up time and other resources even more to call and ask:
Hey, is you Twolane? :nixweiss:
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Nice!
Dealerships determining warranty work based upon forum posts they assume to know the identity of posters.
This might be the ultimate reason to avoid a new HD!
If any truth to this, which I doubt seriously!!
HD and the Dealerships need to spend a whole lot more time building a better motorcycle and customer service and less time worrying about who is posting about the problems they are selling at $50k a pop.
Remember this thread started with a brand new motorcycle that had 185miles, "a 185miles" A HUNDRED EIGHTY FIVE MILES!, and its back to the dealer for same problems that has been occurring for over 2 years, TWO YEARS!!!
I REALLY HOPE THEY READ THIS BECAUSE IT IS WHY ME AND OTHERS HAVE OR ARE SWITCHING BRANDS!!!
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No they don't. Thats complete non-sense... Utter BULLchit
Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
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Regardless if HD reads these forums or not, I doubt I'll ever buy another HD. Oh I'm keeping my '06 CVO Ultra, but my next bike will not be an HD.
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this shi t about HD has to be true :nervous: cause I read it on the iner web!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Of course they do. Makes perfect sense too. Every city or at-best regional covering dealer has staff paid to absorb man-hours and company equipment to surf the web. Their very being (and job title) is defined by absorbing all that is on the interweb looking for malcontents (world wide!) that would never be in range to actually spend money at that dealership so those strangers to the dealer's area of operations can be blackballed. It makes perfect sense. How could one doubt that this is so?
I know I personally get several phone calls every week that are from some unknown phone number. I am also of adamantine certainty that each of those calls are from Harley shops who are using up time and other resources even more to call and ask:
Hey, is you Twolane? :nixweiss:
You are much too kind, sir. Only when I read the most outlandish statements, and only a poor facsimile at that. :huepfenlol2: