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Author Topic: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit  (Read 7512 times)

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Puzzled

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The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« on: July 28, 2017, 02:55:19 PM »

Wednesday, 26 July 2017
   
Baker Drivetrain

The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit – did somebody say “robust”?

Oh my! Bert Baker’s grudge is finally out in the open – that is to say that after two years of development and testing, refinement and re-testing, Bert Baker’s ‘GrudgeBox’ 6-speed overdrive builder kit is finally on the open roads!

 
Stock (left) GrudgeBox Street (right)

Described as being built to “take the high horsepower abuse found in late model H-D performance applications while providing elegant shift precision,” there are two configurations offered for 2006 and later Dynas and 2007 and later Softails and Tourers.
GrudgeBox ‘Street’ has straight cut 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears, helical 4th, 5th and 6th, “designed and geared for everyday highway riders with modern H-D horsepower.”
The straight cut 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears are for “efficient torque multiplication,” with the helical 4th, 5th and 6th gears delivering “smooth and quiet cruising” with a 250 rpm drop at higher highway speeds (approx. 80 mph). The engineering focus is on “excessive durability” with a patent pending “bulletproof” main drive gear bearing and gears up to 40% wider than stock.

“mod-free install”

With positive dog tooth engagement in gear (pie shaped shift dogs), frictionless linear detent shift system (for smooth shifting), redundant neutral detent (to make it easy to find neutral), low effort, single axis/linear motion ratchet pawl (for crisp, tight and easy shifting) and greater durability than stock, one of the most extraordinary things about Baker’s ‘Street’ and ‘Strip’ GrudgeBox designs is that they require absolutely no, as in zero, zip, zilch, nada modifications to the stock cases.

 
GrudgeBox Strip

The GrudgeBox ‘Strip’ gives you straight 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th gears – “designed and geared for performance buffs, racers and speed freaks seeking negligible power loss.” Having all the gears straight cut results in “negligible parasitic power loss, providing maximum power transfer to the rear wheel.” It has wide ratio gearing for heavier performance applications and is built for aggressive takes offs and long distances at above average speeds.
 
“reliable, smoother shifting”

The 4° back-cut angle on all GrudgeBox shift dogs ensures positive gear engagement and eliminates hop out (“more hook for the hold”) and the shift drum utilizes a fixed spindle design for smooth, low inertia indexing. “It’s easy to find neutral with our redundant neutral detent, which is incorporated into the architecture of the shift system.” There is a smooth linear 11/32” detent ball bearing riding on 60 micro ball bearings, with linear motion controlled by a caged 24 micro ball bearing assembly and a 44lb/in compression spring.



Baker says that “conventional shifter pawls have a 2-point pivot system. Our new low effort single axis/linear motion shifter pawl rotates from one central pivot point, allowing continuous motion throughout the shift with over-shift inhibitors preventing any missed shifts.”
 
“torque, torque and more torque”

A speedometer reluctor ring sends the vehicle speed signal through the stock speed sensor, keeping the pulses per mile the same as stock. The stock speedometer will indicate the correct speed without the use of a recalibration box (PCM reflash is required for correct gear indication and proper cruise control operation).
Intended for high horsepower applications and well suited for everyday cruising, the pie shaped shift dogs used in the GrudgeBox provide significantly more dog tooth/pocket landing area for positive dog tooth engagement while in gear. Baker’s exclusive patent pending double tapered roller bearing assembly eliminates the all too common stock main drive gear bearing failures.




“Conventional shifter pawls have a 2-point pivot system. Our new single axis/linear motion shifter pawl has fewer points of motion and will hold up under high horsepower and aggressive shifting.” The Baker GrudgeBox comes with a 5-year/50,000 mile limited warranty “for excessive torque capacity, crisp shifting and worry free, aggressive riding.”

BAKER DRIVETRAIN
www.bakerdrivetrain.com
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Puzzled

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 02:56:20 PM »

2
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Twolanerider

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 05:27:45 PM »

So the hyperbole-to-English translation is:

"Well....  we finally admitted that most riders (even Harley riders [go figure]) actually realized that a 7 speed was so unnecessary we just weren't go to sell a lot.  So our next solution to something that hasn't been much of a problem is to sell an expensive gear cassette to replace one of the few pieces in the modern bikes that actually doesn't give a lot of problem to most riders."
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johnsachs

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 06:21:12 PM »

I finally got a grudge box street to put behind my customers 124" engine.(Engine done at the same time 2 months ago). Trans. looks good, install tools included, and seems to work well with a Scorpion clutch and that engine making 146 ft. lbs. of torque. It's an easy sell, figuring that the stock main drive gear bearing is a major weak link in the stock 6- speed. Baker supplies a Timkin style bearing set up, and also a billet trap door, which plays a large part in stabilizing the main, and counter shafts.
This area is a hot bed for 124" motors, as I'm on my 5th 124" in as many months.  :o
John
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 06:24:38 PM by johnsachs »
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J.D.

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 07:48:09 PM »

That does look robust.

If you want or need the best, it's Baker.
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Twolanerider

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 10:01:17 PM »

I finally got a grudge box street to put behind my customers 124" engine.(Engine done at the same time 2 months ago). Trans. looks good, install tools included, and seems to work well with a Scorpion clutch and that engine making 146 ft. lbs. of torque. It's an easy sell, figuring that the stock main drive gear bearing is a major weak link in the stock 6- speed. Baker supplies a Timkin style bearing set up, and also a billet trap door, which plays a large part in stabilizing the main, and counter shafts.
This area is a hot bed for 124" motors, as I'm on my 5th 124" in as many months.  :o
John


John, how much beyond a stock engine does it take to make this gear set a legitimate recommendation?  Or, to put it differently, up to what level of performance does the stock tranny generally hold up ok?
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johnsachs

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 06:36:00 PM »


John, how much beyond a stock engine does it take to make this gear set a legitimate recommendation?  Or, to put it differently, up to what level of performance does the stock tranny generally hold up ok?
Like anything Harley, you fix one area, and the next weakest link in the chain will eventually show up!
There's 3 Areo-charger baggers in western central Florida, at a dyno shop I use, that are making upwards of 170 H.P. with stock transmissions, and NO problems. I know of several 143 S&S motors that are using stock 6-speed gear sets with NO problems, upwards of 170 hp also, although they are using Baker doors, and 1 is getting the Baker main drive bearing. The last 2 124" builds came to me with broken transmissions. 1 was a 95" , and the other was a 103" stage 4 dealer built. Both under 115 h.p.
Once the trans. area is made relatively sound, I think the belt will be the next thing to give up. I have 2 chain conversions on the calendar now.
Hard to say what the breaking point is  :( .
My take is, if your a hammer, I would strengthen the trans. It's only money, but so is anything Harley. ;)
I feel the "Grudge Box" may be the best of anything offered so far.
John
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:40:48 PM by johnsachs »
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FlaHeatWave

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 04:42:39 PM »

So the hyperbole-to-English translation is:

"Well....  we finally admitted that most riders (even Harley riders [go figure]) actually realized that a 7 speed was so unnecessary we just weren't go to sell a lot.  So our next solution to something that hasn't been much of a problem is to sell an expensive gear cassette to replace one of the few pieces in the modern bikes that actually doesn't give a lot of problem to most riders."

I can appreciate the humor,,, but...

When it comes to a certain point in PowerTrain enhancement, Gearing / Ratios will come into play,,, it's all about optimizing all the components for the intended usage,,, the Baker Transmission Products offer plenty of Gearing / Ratio options albeit in a more robust package...
What's wrong with that :nixweiss:

Some folks are modding the Gearing / Ratios in their HDs in the Primary (Gamechanger), or at the rear Drive Pulley (30T), both of these methods have compromises and their own issues,,, the DD7 has no compromises or issues of it's own,,, just co$t a bit more...   

A product for Harleys doesn't always have to "fix a problem" to be successful, if that was the case, the chrome / powdercoat / accessory / fancy wheel etc... folks wouldn't have a multi-million dollar industry...

Properly set-up Belts are very robust,,, I've seen them take tons more abuse than I ever thought they could take,,, I mean some stupid s**t...

When it gets time to build a HD a lot "meaner" than my '09, I'll give the Baker Grudge Box Strip a hard look...







   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 04:44:35 PM by FlaHeatWave »
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Yellow09SERG

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 09:10:20 PM »

So the hyperbole-to-English translation is:

"Well....  we finally admitted that most riders (even Harley riders [go figure]) actually realized that a 7 speed was so unnecessary we just weren't go to sell a lot.  So our next solution to something that hasn't been much of a problem is to sell an expensive gear cassette to replace one of the few pieces in the modern bikes that actually doesn't give a lot of problem to most riders."

Maybe....but.....

I would still put the DD7 as the 2nd best thing I have done to the 09 for the loads and the riding style it is used for. And even at that it would be 2nd only to the 117 build. As for the Grunge Box....very happy with the power levels I am making so probably don't see the need of one for me. The big HP/TQ motors maybe but what breaks next?
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BlackTout

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Re: The Baker GrudgeBox 6-speed overdrive builder kit
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 05:11:37 PM »

Maybe....but.....

I would still put the DD7 as the 2nd best thing I have done to the 09 for the loads and the riding style it is used for. And even at that it would be 2nd only to the 117 build. As for the Grunge Box....very happy with the power levels I am making so probably don't see the need of one for me. The big HP/TQ motors maybe but what breaks next?

I have a stock '12 FLHX (save for Bassani RR2B4 exhaust and Ness air cleaner) and managed to destroy the stock trans in 38k miles. I just ordered the Grudge Box and am installing a set of TMan cams. I don't ride wheelies or "pop" the clutch but I ride it very hard for very long periods of time. I'm stepping up to the Grudge Box because I don't want to be stranded in the middle of no where while on the road. The gearing in 1-3 is so similar it should be virtually undetectable. Given the likely HP and TQ gains from the TMan 555TQ's I think the gearing in 4-6 shouldn't be noticeable. "What breaks next?"....I dunno, but it won't be the trans ever again! Why would anyone put the MoCo crap back in knowing it's a weak link? Upgrade the pieces as they fail or as you increase power and keep it reliable.
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