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[longlast]

Harley-Davidson’s old ‘Twin Cam’ engine will disappear from the model range next year as all the firm’s Dyna and Softail models follow in the footsteps of its Touring and Trike ranges and adopt the new Milwaukee-Eight V-twin.

The move means that all Harley’s ‘big’ bikes will be using the new Milwaukee-Eight from 2018, sounding the death knell for the Twin Cam motor that’s been Harley’s mainstay since 1999.

Despite its retro appearance, with cooling fins and Harley’s tradition 45-degree V-angle, the Milwaukee-Eight is a high-tech design. Most importantly it has four valves per cylinder cleverly operated by a single block-mounted camshaft and pushrods. Although often derided by DOHC-obsessed riders used to European or Japanese bikes, the pushrod setup makes for much smaller cylinder heads and an engine that’s more compact overall. That’s useful when, as with the Milwaukee-Eight, the motor’s capacity is nearing the 2-litre mark.

Other notable Milwaukee-Eight features are twin sparkplugs for each cylinder and the fact that Harley makes both versions with both oil-cooled and water-cooled cylinder heads. The smallest version of the engine is the 1746cc ‘107’ (107cu in). There’s also the ‘114’ (114cu in) version, which is 1868cc in metric terms, and in 2018 some of Harley’s top-of-the-range CVO models will get an even larger ‘117’ (117cu in) version, which equates to 1923cc.

Peak power figures for the engines are lower than you might expect – ranging from around 92hp for the smallest, oil-cooled 107 to about 101hp for the 114 version with water-cooled heads. The new 117 will make about 105hp. But those numbers don’t tell the whole story – Harley engines are about torque, and even the smallest Milwaukee-Eight makes a stomping 110lb-ft at just 3250rpm. The 114 makes up to 122lb-ft at the same speed, and the 117 should be capable of around 130lb-ft.

 

harley news
 

Which bikes will get these engines next year?

Documents filed a the EPA – the United States Environmental Protection Agency – reveal the full line of bikes that will get the Milwaukee-Eight engine next year.

As well as continuing in the Touring and Trike ranges, it spreads to the Dyna and Softail lines.

The full range of Dyna and Softail bikes getting the Milwaukee-Eight is as follows:

Breakout
Breakout S
Breakout S Anniversary
Softail Deluxe
Fat Boy
Fat Boy S
Fat Boy S Anniversary V
Fat Boy S Anniversary X
Heritage Softail Classic
Heritage Softail Classic S
Heritage Softail Classic S Anniversary
Low Rider
Softail Slim
Street Bob
Fat Bob
Fat Bob 114
 

You’ll note that the Breakout, Fat Boy and Heritage Softail Classic all get ‘S’ versions. Currently Harley’s blacked-out ‘S-Series’ bikes already includes the Fat Boy S, alongside a Softail Slim S and Low Rider S. It appears the latter two are being replaced by the Breakout and Heritage Classic for 2018.

The abundance of ‘Anniversary’ models is also clear. That’s because 2018 is Harley’s 115th birthday year. While we don’t have details of what will distinguish the Anniversary models, it’s likely to be paint and trim rather than any major mechanical changes. Notably the Fat Boy S gets two Anniversary editions – the ‘V’ and ‘X’ – at the moment there’s no indication of what will distinguish the two.

The EPA documents don’t reveal exactly which models get which engine size, although its name clearly shows that the Fat Bob 114 will use the larger Milwaukee Eight. It’s likely that the ‘S’ models will use the 114 while the base version of each bike uses the 107. As most of these bikes are naked, they’re likely to use the oil-cooled cylinder heads rather than the ‘Twin-Cooled’ water-cooled heads used on some of the part-faired Touring models.

The models that appear to be getting the new 117 version of the Milwaukee Eight are the new CVO Ultra Limited and CVO Ultra Limited Anniversary.

Harley-Davidson usually reveals its new models in the last week of August each year, so we shouldn’t have long to wait until we discover the full extent of the changes. But for anyone interested in one of the firm’s mainstay big twin models, 2018 may well prove to be a landmark year.

[grc]

They have to be the only vehicle manufacturing company on the planet that has anniversary models every five years.  Overdone and meaningless BS, and I can't imagine anyone actually getting excited about a so-called 115th anniversary Harley.  Why not have an anniversary EVERY year, and really beat that horse to death?

Jerry

[grayghost731]

      New  Batch  of  Kool-Aid!     

[CHH_Badkarma]

Buy your HD branded TC parts now before they are gone...

[longlast]

  l see this is old news it had already been posted earlier in the ( General Discussion) 

[Twolanerider]

l see this is old news it had already been posted earlier in the ( General Discussion) 

Just because someone else said it doesn't mean it's not current!  "Old news" would be:

"New Shovelheads Out in the Fall"

That'd be some old news  .

[iski]

Just because someone else said it doesn't mean it's not current!  "Old news" would be:

"New Shovelheads Out in the Fall"

That'd be some old news  .

What about plaid engines?   Plaid tires?   Plaid paint jobs?  Plaid leather jackets?   Plaid chrome? 

They already have the shirts.

[phato1]

What about plaid engines?   Plaid tires?   Plaid paint jobs?  Plaid leather jackets?   Plaid chrome? 

They already have the shirts.

At this time there are no plans to expand the plaid line of accessories beyond the new plaid seats to coordinate with the shirts 

[iski]

At this time there are no plans to expand the plaid line of accessories beyond the new plaid seats to coordinate with the shirts 

Twolane is going to be upset when he reads this. 

[Twolanerider]

At this time there are no plans to expand the plaid line of accessories beyond the new plaid seats to coordinate with the shirts 

Oh my GAWD!  Think of what it'll be like when they finally get smart enough to release the (wait for it)  Plaid Leathers  !

[iski]

Oh my GAWD!  Think of what it'll be like when they finally get smart enough to release the (wait for it)  Plaid Leathers  !

Early prototype?   

[longlast]

There's the rustic anniversary addition

[Para Bellum]

There's the rustic anniversary addition

...with the LED lamps...

[scottt]

Wonder what is going to happen to trade values? Kinda feel for the 17 CVO owners, They get upstaged in one model year.

I agree with Jerry regarding Anniversary models. Should be every 25 years not 5.

Harley should have installed the 117 in the Trikes. Should revitalize the softail and Dyna line. Look forward to seeing the frames?

[EzMonkey]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

[TN]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

It ain't the motorsikles fault, or is it??



TN

[mark]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

You have two posts.  Go to the Twin Cam section and Milwaukee 8 section of this forum.  Under Twin Cam, read about failed compensators, lifters, excessive oil consumption, etc.  Don't worry about being able to find them, there will be a multitude of posts dating back to the introduction of the 110. In the M8 section, read about oil sumping and oil pump issues.  The posts you read will be from HD loyalist that spent $30k to $40k for the MoCo's top of the line product.  After reading, feel free to make your third post.

[longlast]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

You may have the wrong impression,....in time as you read different threads no one says they don't like Harley's it's not negatively it's venting.

The interest is upgrading the MoCo's top of the line bike so it will keep running,...inturn gives us a life on a more trustworthy ride

[phato1]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

Nothing negative about wanting a plaid saddle 

The following may be offensive to some readers....

I love my FLHTCUSE6 but......

 
The only negative aspects I personally can relate to is..... One Tappet & Cam set replacements due to failed tappets(at 6500 miles), Another cam set and tappet replacement due to broken cam retention bolt in the cam chest(at 12,000 miles), a compensator replacement, three ignition switches, a rear brake light switch and a faulty cruise control(twice) - all in five years of ownership and about 32,000 miles of riding ( fortunately I have an ESP on the bike, which I will likely renew in April - if the ESP company will let me  )

Then there is the preventative tappet changes at 25,000 miles - that one on my dime for parts as I did my own labor... Almost forgot, guess who fixed the cruise control and a malfunctioning power lock on the saddle bags?  Give up?? yup I fixed those since the parts changers at one dealer I USED to go to couldn't troubleshoot their way out of wet paper bag and I got sick of bringing the bike back repeatedly for the issues

For $36,000.00 (in 2011) of my hard earned cash I expect better.

Will I buy another one?  probably not. I can't see spending 40k on one when the build/engineering quality has not improved to a level I expect. Heck, I spent a lot less than that on my car and it hasn't seen a repair shop since I bought it in 2013 - and it has 62,000 miles on it ......

I've looked at the new Indians and they are a viable alternative to a new HD - if I could get a trade in on all my darn Harley T-shirts 

At this point in time it's just more cost effective and easier to keep the bike I have.


Hopefully your results will be different, and by that I mean better.

[Para Bellum]

Why is there no much negativity about Harley and their product on this thread. Not sure why people that don't like the brand even waste their time on this forum. They should find something that interests them and get a life.

Because there are a lot of people here who are on their 3rd compensator, 3rd master cylinder repair/replace, 3rd voltage regulator, 2nd stator, 2nd set of cylinders and heads, 2nd set of lifters, or even 3rd engine.  On the same bike, of course.  With several of those failures occurring while 1000s of miles from home, on a budgeted number of days...and paid the equivalent of today's $42,000.

[HighOnHD]

Warning!!! Don’t expect to post anything positive about a HARLEY on this site without getting flamed and accused of guzzling koolaid!!!

The truth is there a several on this forum that evidently had one or more problems with there bike and have found a home to puff up their chest and beat it like a silver back. Must make them feel important or powerful or whatever. Sure whatever problem they may have had did happen to them 100%. They certainly have the right to be pi$$ed. That fact does not mean 100% of Harley’s have experienced the same problems, OR that 100% of Harley owners are pis$ed off at MoCO, or unhappy with THEIR bike, or THEIR purchase. They just have a life and don’t LIVE on this forum constantly posting all of THEIR POSITIVE experiences. Some don’t post positive on here out of fear. I don’t give a $hit.

Here are some facts… My 2015 FLHXSE now has over 33K miles on it. Not a lot but still as much as the previous example post mentioning all the bad experiences. In my example the bike has only been in the shop for the 1000 mile service. No problems whatsoever! I service it every 5K. I take my wheels in and have the tires replaced. That’s it! We just got back from another yearly extended trip (5700 miles) from Washington coast to Milwaukie WI for a factory tour and the HD Museum and back. Oh Jeeze… no problems again. I sold my previous bike at over 45K. It had one compensator changed at a warranty deductible cost of $50. I put forward that most Harley riders are having experiences closer to what I have experienced, NOT those of the Silver Back chest beaters posting on this forum. I say they are a small percentage compared to the total population of owners.

Another fact. Unlike Tesla most companies have to make money to survive; thus, the extended warranty company is making money. If all of their customers were experiencing what the Silver Back chest beaters are espousing on this forum they would have been bankrupt years ago.

Yes the koolaid tastes so good. Someone has to have the ball$ to tell it like it is on this forum. Now go ahead and beat your chests! As you can see it just breaks my heart.

[Frank FX]

Well said. I agree 100%

[iski]

The doctors of negativity have been challenged.   

Some just think all Harleys are crap.  Like some "other" brand owners I know.  Fun to tweak them at times, unless they are just a-holes about it.  Then there are the "All Harleys are crap and only the ones made before _________________ are good" & that is not a new idea.  I have heard that for years, engine changes, carb to fuel injection, yadda yadda. 

If I thought it was that bad I would buy something else.  Have I had bike issues?  Sure and some were not simple.  Each time either the dealer stepped up or Harley stepped up to take care of them.  The time that took, sometimes, was another matter.  All in all Harley remains the sales leader for a reason.  No guarantee that continues forever or even for the next decade.

Too many USA companies have bit the dust, or sold out to some conglomerate who later destroyed them. No way would I wish that upon any company (well Comcast could be a current exception), hope HD continues to do well.

And the T/Cs be gone or barely there if at all.

[phato1]

The doctors of negativity have been challenged.   

Can I get a lab coat and stethoscope?

Actually, I could use a good stethoscope to aid in diagnosing some mechanical noises I keep hearing....

[iski]

Can I get a lab coat and stethoscope?

Actually, I could use a good stethoscope to aid in diagnosing some mechanical noises I keep hearing....

Yes and yes.  The Harley noise gremlins are legion.   

Not saying some do not have legitimate gripes, and some of these are so bad they will never buy another Harley.  Understandable.  But some........just enjoy the biatching, kvetching, complaining, etc.  Is better to be pondering, with a  beverage that is some sort of potent memory eraser, to make it better to ponder.

Back in 08 when my 07 was a POS, I was in the biatch group, but I drank enough memory eraser beverages to fuhgeddabouit.   

[phato1]

I just need a little more majic Berrie juice to make things right.
As I stated in my post I love the bike. Unfortunately I think I got a Monday model.
I've addressed most of the historical issues with new cam bearings, upgraded lifters. And the latest version of the compensator with the fancy oil tray gizmo. This winter the top end will be addressed..

Back on topic, have the 2028"s been revealed yet? Just a little curious about the rest of the lines getting the M8.

[iski]

Carb report is the same since Friday.  Reports are around that say M8 goes into Softail models & Fat Bobs.

Yeah, I had a lousy 07, towards the last.  Electrical and security system glitches mostly and they were always a little different each time.  After 3 years I traded for my 2010, it was a good one. So far the 17 is ok. No probs except the I-Aint system vexes me sorely.

Berry juice makes everything better.  Reminds me, is beer thirty here. 

[HighOnHD]

The doctors of negativity have been challenged.   

Some just think all Harleys are crap.  Like some "other" brand owners I know.  Fun to tweak them at times, unless they are just a-holes about it.  Then there are the "All Harleys are crap and only the ones made before _________________ are good" & that is not a new idea.  I have heard that for years, engine changes, carb to fuel injection, yadda yadda. 

If I thought it was that bad I would buy something else.  Have I had bike issues?  Sure and some were not simple.  Each time either the dealer stepped up or Harley stepped up to take care of them.  The time that took, sometimes, was another matter.  All in all Harley remains the sales leader for a reason.  No guarantee that continues forever or even for the next decade.

Too many USA companies have bit the dust, or sold out to some conglomerate who later destroyed them. No way would I wish that upon any company (well Comcast could be a current exception), hope HD continues to do well.

And the T/Cs be gone or barely there if at all.

Thanks for giving me some cover iski. It just never ceases to amaze me how people can look at similar situations so completely differently.

I grew-up racing bikes in the dirt and blew up a lot of engines from many different manufacturers. The first one my dad helped me with. The next time (age 12) he said “If you can tear it apart, you can put it back together.” I did and all the rest were on me. Go figure but the same thing was repeated for my first car. I was fortunate enough to get a 69 SS 396. Almost the first day taking it to school I did a burnout dropping my brother off and it started knocking. It had 12.5 aluminum pistons that I did not warm up well enough.  My dad helped me with that one and the next four engines were on me. Of course I never even considered that any of the bikes or the car were a POS.

I had more fun racing and riding those bikes and driving that car than almost anything else! Riding these bikes on the street are not that much fun, but that is why I ride them… for fun. Why keep one that makes you miserable? Cheers.

[Dennis97]

All car and manufacturer's have bad products come off the line. I have been fortunate not to have one. I like Harley's but have issues with the MOCO. Don't get me started on Stealerships, I mean Dealerships. I guess there is something wrong with me but I will stick with Harley Davidson. I like the Indians but if they don't really take off I am concerned they will go the way of Victory.

[phato1]

Thanks for giving me some cover iski. It just never ceases to amaze me how people can look at similar situations so completely differently.

I grew-up racing bikes in the dirt and blew up a lot of engines from many different manufacturers. The first one my dad helped me with. The next time (age 12) he said “If you can tear it apart, you can put it back together.” I did and all the rest were on me. Go figure but the same thing was repeated for my first car. I was fortunate enough to get a 69 SS 396. Almost the first day taking it to school I did a burnout dropping my brother off and it started knocking. It had 12.5 aluminum pistons that I did not warm up well enough.  My dad helped me with that one and the next four engines were on me. Of course I never even considered that any of the bikes or the car were a POS.

I had more fun racing and riding those bikes and driving that car than almost anything else! Riding these bikes on the street are not that much fun, but that is why I ride them… for fun. Why keep one that makes you miserable? Cheers.

I understand what your saying, and don't entirely disagree.

I'm just saying that my experience with THIS HD has not been all sunshine and roses (it's not my first or only HD) Unfortunately it's left a bit of a bad taste. Again my experience is obviously different than some.

 
 

[iski]

Thanks for giving me some cover iski. It just never ceases to amaze me how people can look at similar situations so completely differently.

I grew-up racing bikes in the dirt and blew up a lot of engines from many different manufacturers. The first one my dad helped me with. The next time (age 12) he said “If you can tear it apart, you can put it back together.” I did and all the rest were on me. Go figure but the same thing was repeated for my first car. I was fortunate enough to get a 69 SS 396. Almost the first day taking it to school I did a burnout dropping my brother off and it started knocking. It had 12.5 aluminum pistons that I did not warm up well enough.  My dad helped me with that one and the next four engines were on me. Of course I never even considered that any of the bikes or the car were a POS.

I had more fun racing and riding those bikes and driving that car than almost anything else! Riding these bikes on the street are not that much fun, but that is why I ride them… for fun. Why keep one that makes you miserable? Cheers.

Your post made a lot of sense.  Plus it was a contrarian idea to what generally passes for PC around here most days.  I blew up dirt bike engines, raced cars, same deal.  Maybe since we have both broken stuff, more than less on purpose sometimes, we understand a little better on some things.  Maybe not, but seems so.

I had a bad experience with an 07 HD.  A lot of others did as well.  Know of some that had no issues on the 07s.  Have had bad experiences with some cars, but instead of dissing the whole company usually figured was just a bad model.  Have bought Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Chryslers through the years.  Know some who SWEAR that __________brand is worthless junk.  Never found that to be the case myself, depended on the model & some of them were bum steers.

HD continues.  Critics will as well.  Some will never buy another one.  That's the way it is with manufactured products, not limited to HD by any means.

[Para Bellum]

I grew-up racing bikes in the dirt and blew up a lot of engines from many different manufacturers.

(SS 396 Camaro) had 12.5 aluminum pistons that I did not warm up well enough.  the next four engines were on me.

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Racing and hot-dogging will break things.  We're talking about street touring, with multiple failures of the same cheaply-made components, in normal use.

From a common-sense standpoint, if one bike has a lifter failure, it's an unusual occurrence that makes no statement about overall quality.  If 20% of them have failures, it tells you something.  You can ignore multiple reports of failure and base your opinion on one good example, but the facts are still there.

I hope you don't go through the bad experiences some have had, but...will your opinion remain the same if you do?

Personally, I replace lifters early and often after having 2 failures.     And I'm going to form and express my opinion based on the overall facts I see.  YMMV

[iski]

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Racing and hot-dogging will break things.  We're talking about street touring, with multiple failures of the same cheaply-made components, in normal use.

From a common-sense standpoint, if one bike has a lifter failure, it's an unusual occurrence that makes no statement about overall quality.  If 20% of them have failures, it tells you something.  You can ignore multiple reports of failure and base your opinion on one good example, but the facts are still there.

I hope you don't go through the bad experiences some have had, but...will your opinion remain the same if you do?

Personally, I replace lifters early and often after having 2 failures.     And I'm going to form and express my opinion based on the overall facts I see.  YMMV

I posted several times already, in this thread, about issues I had with a 2007 SE Ultra. Yes, I had bad experiences with that bike, to the point of where it was unreliable for taking trips.  Yes, my opinion is the same now after that.  On the other Harleys I have owned have had some issues, but nothing like the 07 and all in all were/are good bikes except for that one.

Have been riding MCs for only 48 years, so realize my motorcycle experience is limited.  Have had other brands besides HD, each one had it's problems.  Some minor some severe, not related to racing.  Lifter failures on the 110's are well documented, I replaced stock lifters on mine, no problems after, and they had not failed.  Compensator issues are also well documented.  Have had friends riding Harleys long before I ever thought about owning one.  Through the years, Harley has had some problems no doubt going way back.

Your opinion differs from mine, do not see any problem with that from here.

[longlast]

Just to through in my two cents, I've been a Harley lover since my younger days had three back in the day of the 70s the last one in 82 was an Electra Glide that I sold ( got married) . After a 35+ yr gap and not keeping up with HD's progress I'm finding not much has changed the bike still needs doctoring maybe a little bit more than the old days.
As we all know quality of things today are substandard compaired to yesterday's

At the end of the day and after throwing our toys out of the pram on this fault and that failure we'll still buy, repair and ride our beloved Harley Davidsons.
Some have had a go of the cost for what they get. Well,. I maybe wrong, I think there's a good chunk of the cost is buying the Harley Davidson name.
I can't see were the cost of 30/45k goes I can say as far as my bike goes I truly know that with only 18k on it I've spent just under 2k on repairs more if it was done in a shopI think, no I know, the chroming is substandard I have chrome issues popping up all over and I have been sticky on cleaning on a regular basis.
Never had chrome issues with the older bikes.
But never the less I for one will continue to ride repair rant and defend my beloved Harley Davidson

[HighOnHD]

You're comparing apples to oranges.  Racing and hot-dogging will break things.  We're talking about street touring, with multiple failures of the same cheaply-made components, in normal use.

From a common-sense standpoint, if one bike has a lifter failure, it's an unusual occurrence that makes no statement about overall quality.  If 20% of them have failures, it tells you something.  You can ignore multiple reports of failure and base your opinion on one good example, but the facts are still there.

I hope you don't go through the bad experiences some have had, but...will your opinion remain the same if you do?

Personally, I replace lifters early and often after having 2 failures.     And I'm going to form and express my opinion based on the overall facts I see.  YMMV

Well some people hear what they want to hear these days and seem to be able to just twist what anyone says into whatever they want. I can’t control that… as iski wisely pointed out in a response to me. See iski, I actually listened to what you were saying and not what I wanted to hear (summarizing a portion of what you said).

So I will break my last post down. If you read my last post (in an open minded fashion) you may discover that I was actually saying (in summary) that it amazes me how I can blow up over many years time enumerable engines, and consider it some of the most fun I ever had. While others can do the same and be completely miserable about it. Now mind you this is in the context of TOYS!!!! Maybe I am wrong, but I think that is what we are talking about here. Toys.

Secondly. Implicitly in my last post I was trying to get across the concept that it actually matters who is straddling (or driving) the vehicle! If anyone thinks that it does not matter how the vehicle is driven, and that it does not have any implication as to longevity, and reliability of the vehicle… well again I can’t control that type of thinking either.

Finally I guess I would challenge your statement where you tried to imply that 20% of the lifters in these bikes are failing and therefore (as has been so thoroughly described on this forum) destroying the engines. Where is your proof of that so called fact? Also, I did not base my opinion on “one good example.” I proposed that if the situation was as severe as implied by the “silver back chest beaters” that there is no way the extended warranty company could survive such a level of failure. Do you also believe that MoCo could survive with 20% of their finest motorcycles ending up with exploding engines happening somewhere around 20k miles? Also, as I recall I purchased 5 extra years of extended coverage for $2100. I’m not a statistician, but off hand what does it cost to repair one of these in this circumstance? $5000 or so? I would think that over 5 years 20K miles can roll around several times, right? It just does not pass the sniff test that the warranty company could stay in business under those circumstances. So while I am waiting on your 20% proof, I will also wonder about the “cheaply-made components” statement. The person straddling the bike can easily start up the bike and before it is warmed up (kind of sound familiar) over rev the engine and RUIN parts. Does that mean those parts are cheaply made? Do you have proof on how TINY a percentage this situation represents?

[HighOnHD]

Keeping it real… So finally after around 34K miles the motor has had enough. Thankfully it occurred post my trip to Milwaukee a few weeks ago. I left to take a short ride after work and about a mile up the road the sudden top end clatter raised it’s ugly head and rather than fading away as the engine warmed to operating temperature it decided to stick around through all RPM ranges ( idle and on up). So I called off the ride, turned around and eased back home. Since I planned on this all along (as in paid up front for the extended warranty, and bought the Fullsac header and TTS tuner) I returned the exhaust and tune to stock and called the out of state dealer I bought it from. They came about 40 miles and picked it up. At this point I know they removed the exhaust and peeked in the port to see a stuck valve and are calling to get approval to go from here.

I have done my due diligence at this point, and now the wife and I are heading to the coast for the weekend. Such is life. Looking forward to getting it back so that I can ride the hell out of it for hopefully another 34K! I will miss it in the mean time.

Do I blame Moco? Nope. Do I think badly of my bike? Nope. Do I still think it is a bad a$$ bike? Yep! Love it. You have to pay to play. If you are not prepared for that don't even go there. JMHO.

Cheers.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Keeping it real… So finally after around 34K miles the motor has had enough. Thankfully it occurred post my trip to Milwaukee a few weeks ago. I left to take a short ride after work and about a mile up the road the sudden top end clatter raised it’s ugly head and rather than fading away as the engine warmed to operating temperature it decided to stick around through all RPM ranges ( idle and on up). So I called off the ride, turned around and eased back home. Since I planned on this all along (as in paid up front for the extended warranty, and bought the Fullsac header and TTS tuner) I returned the exhaust and tune to stock and called the out of state dealer I bought it from. They came about 40 miles and picked it up. At this point I know they removed the exhaust and peeked in the port to see a stuck valve and are calling to get approval to go from here.

I have done my due diligence at this point, and now the wife and I are heading to the coast for the weekend. Such is life. Looking forward to getting it back so that I can ride the hell out of it for hopefully another 34K! I will miss it in the mean time.

Do I blame Moco? Nope. Do I think badly of my bike? Nope. Do I still think it is a bad a$$ bike? Yep! Love it. You have to pay to play. If you are not prepared for that don't even go there. JMHO.

Cheers.

Wow, so how would you feel if this was a car or pick that had this failure at 34K miles?

I do blame the MoCo.  They know full well their is a major issue with the valve spring pressure on the 110 motor lifters causing failure.  They just figure most people will never have it happen under warranty.  So they do have to pay to fix it. 

I have had two 110's with Lifter failure, both under factory warranty.  The last was at 44K miles, and HD replaced the whole engine.  My 13 SERK has not had issues, and most likely will not.  I have much better lifters and valve springs in it to prevent this.

So I do blame Harley, but I still keep buying and riding them.

[HighOnHD]

Wow, so how would you feel if this was a car or pick that had this failure at 34K miles?

I do blame the MoCo.  They know full well their is a major issue with the valve spring pressure on the 110 motor lifters causing failure.  They just figure most people will never have it happen under warranty.  So they do have to pay to fix it. 

I have had two 110's with Lifter failure, both under factory warranty.  The last was at 44K miles, and HD replaced the whole engine.  My 13 SERK has not had issues, and most likely will not.  I have much better lifters and valve springs in it to prevent this.

So I do blame Harley, but I still keep buying and riding them.

Hi Dave. I drive my car for commuting, and I don't drive it anything like I ride my bike. I would find it disingenuous for most of us to say we just mildly go through the gears on these bikes like most do while driving their cars. At least I know I like to "get on" my bike quite often on every ride. That is part of the fun for me. I DO NOT do that for my car. Big difference in mechanical stress between the two circumstances. JMHO

[HighOnHD]

I guess my main point in all this is that I bought my bike with eyes wide open. I did not have my head stuck in the sand and I knew what I was getting into. Knowing this how can I be upset with either Moco or my bike when it does exactly what I expected it to do. If I WERE to be upset it would have to be with MYSELF. As I said before, I love my toy. It's fun for me. I'm also covered. I planned it that way. In advance. Why do others who also know full well in advance what they are getting into "piss and moan" day in and day out over the same situation???

[FLSTFI Dave]

Hi Dave. I drive my car for commuting, and I don't drive it anything like I ride my bike. I would find it disingenuous for most of us to say we just mildly go through the gears on these bikes like most do while driving their cars. At least I know I like to "get on" my bike quite often on every ride. That is part of the fun for me. I DO NOT do that for my car. Big difference in mechanical stress between the two circumstances. JMHO

Well, my car is a 14 Stingray with a manual transmission.  I rest assure you, I stress the car engine and drive train much much harder than I do my main bike.   Chevy trusts their motor and drive train so much, my warranty is still valid even with Race Track use.  Yes, I can race my car, and if anything fails it is covered.  My car has launch control, if I launched a Harley like that it would come apart.

The Harleys I have had with lifter failure have all be stock except the exhaust system.  They were not raced, not beat on, not abused.  They were my traveling bikes, that saw 22K or more a year miles.  I have a bike I use when I want to run through the gears, or get on it hard.  Its a 13 CVO King with a very built motor.  It has not had failure.  The reason is, I have better lifters in it, I have better valve springs in it, I have better cam bearings and so on. 

So I have a bike to ride hard.  Again, the bikes with failures are never beat.

Most would never accept a car that did not last 100K miles.  So why is it ok when a Harley fails at 21K like a friends 14 CVO, or 35K like yours or 44K like my last 110 bike?  Just read the forum, many have failures, and most accept it.

Had Harley not replaced the motor in my 15 SERGU that failed, I would not be on a New Harley.

[SDCVO]

My son bought his first car after working his butt off for years playing professional football in Europe (making very little money..) and then coming home and getting a law degree, passing the bar and working 80 hour weeks for 6 months to afford it. He leased a BMW 440I and spent the first month doing mods to it almost like a Harley (wheels, carbon fiber monikers, blacked out tail lights, etc) and at about 3000 miles a fuel injector stuck open and hydro locked the motor completely trashing it. That was on June 15th and he jut found out today that the dealer finally received the replacement motor and it should be completed by the end of next week. Being it has been months that he has been without his car and way past the time frame the manufacturer legally has to repair it without being forced to buy it back they have provided him a alternate car and made his lease payment but of course he is completely bummed out that he does not have his "dream car" but been driving a loaner car for months.
After all this if you ask him what's next car will be he will still say it will be a BMW and there is nothing else he will even consider.
I guess even when it comes to "self flagellation" the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

[CHH_Badkarma]

He did all that to a leased car?

and I missing something or isn't that like remodeling a rental apartment?

I car you got a loan and and intend to pay off I can understand, but a lease?

idk, maybe I just don't know how those work.

[KGB]

My son bought his first car after working his butt off for years playing professional football in Europe (making very little money..) and then coming home and getting a law degree, passing the bar and working 80 hour weeks for 6 months to afford it. He leased a BMW 440I and spent the first month doing mods to it almost like a Harley (wheels, carbon fiber monikers, blacked out tail lights, etc) and at about 3000 miles a fuel injector stuck open and hydro locked the motor completely trashing it. That was on June 15th and he jut found out today that the dealer finally received the replacement motor and it should be completed by the end of next week. Being it has been months that he has been without his car and way past the time frame the manufacturer legally has to repair it without being forced to buy it back they have provided him a alternate car and made his lease payment but of course he is completely bummed out that he does not have his "dream car" but been driving a loaner car for months.
After all this if you ask him what's next car will be he will still say it will be a BMW and there is nothing else he will even consider.
I guess even when it comes to "self flagellation" the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

I'm guessing the engine was back ordered, not only will they pay all lease payments, but he should be able to get a couple of grand for his troubles or some more accessories , also it wont hurt to remind the service manager what your sons profession is

[HighOnHD]

Well, my car is a 14 Stingray with a manual transmission.  I rest assure you, I stress the car engine and drive train much much harder than I do my main bike.   Chevy trusts their motor and drive train so much, my warranty is still valid even with Race Track use.  Yes, I can race my car, and if anything fails it is covered.  My car has launch control, if I launched a Harley like that it would come apart.

The Harleys I have had with lifter failure have all be stock except the exhaust system.  They were not raced, not beat on, not abused.  They were my traveling bikes, that saw 22K or more a year miles.  I have a bike I use when I want to run through the gears, or get on it hard.  Its a 13 CVO King with a very built motor.  It has not had failure.  The reason is, I have better lifters in it, I have better valve springs in it, I have better cam bearings and so on. 

So I have a bike to ride hard.  Again, the bikes with failures are never beat.

Most would never accept a car that did not last 100K miles.  So why is it ok when a Harley fails at 21K like a friends 14 CVO, or 35K like yours or 44K like my last 110 bike?  Just read the forum, many have failures, and most accept it.

Had Harley not replaced the motor in my 15 SERGU that failed, I would not be on a New Harley.

Well when they finish my bike I will go get it and happily pay the $50 deductible and enjoy it some more! Hey! Why don't you let me drive that Stingray for 35K strictly fun-filled miles like I put on my bike?

[SDCVO]

I'm guessing the engine was back ordered, not only will they pay all lease payments, but he should be able to get a couple of grand for his troubles or some more accessories , also it wont hurt to remind the service manager what your sons profession is

They did make an extra 3 payments which is good but still it has been a complete PIA for him!

[SDCVO]

He did all that to a leased car?

and I missing something or isn't that like remodeling a rental apartment?

I car you got a loan and and intend to pay off I can understand, but a lease?

idk, maybe I just don't know how those work.

He did a 3 yr lease and figured it was worth it to enjoy the mods for those 3 years. At 27 yrs old whether he leased it or bought it he would end up upgrading in 3 years anyway so I couldn't argue successfully with him on that one.
At 27 I don't usually successfully argue anything with him anyway. I am just some old fart to him that really doesn't know anything..

[CHH_Badkarma]

I think most ppl at 27 it is useless to argue with

[Para Bellum]

Well some people hear what they want to hear these days and seem to be able to just twist what anyone says into whatever they want. I can’t control that… as iski wisely pointed out in a response to me. See iski, I actually listened to what you were saying and not what I wanted to hear (summarizing a portion of what you said).

So I will break my last post down. If you read my last post (in an open minded fashion) you may discover that I was actually saying (in summary) that it amazes me how I can blow up over many years time enumerable engines, and consider it some of the most fun I ever had. While others can do the same and be completely miserable about it. Now mind you this is in the context of TOYS!!!! Maybe I am wrong, but I think that is what we are talking about here. Toys.

Secondly. Implicitly in my last post I was trying to get across the concept that it actually matters who is straddling (or driving) the vehicle! If anyone thinks that it does not matter how the vehicle is driven, and that it does not have any implication as to longevity, and reliability of the vehicle… well again I can’t control that type of thinking either.

Finally I guess I would challenge your statement where you tried to imply that 20% of the lifters in these bikes are failing and therefore (as has been so thoroughly described on this forum) destroying the engines. Where is your proof of that so called fact? Also, I did not base my opinion on “one good example.” I proposed that if the situation was as severe as implied by the “silver back chest beaters” that there is no way the extended warranty company could survive such a level of failure. Do you also believe that MoCo could survive with 20% of their finest motorcycles ending up with exploding engines happening somewhere around 20k miles? Also, as I recall I purchased 5 extra years of extended coverage for $2100. I’m not a statistician, but off hand what does it cost to repair one of these in this circumstance? $5000 or so? I would think that over 5 years 20K miles can roll around several times, right? It just does not pass the sniff test that the warranty company could stay in business under those circumstances. So while I am waiting on your 20% proof, I will also wonder about the “cheaply-made components” statement. The person straddling the bike can easily start up the bike and before it is warmed up (kind of sound familiar) over rev the engine and RUIN parts. Does that mean those parts are cheaply made? Do you have proof on how TINY a percentage this situation represents?

It's clear that you're arguing against these statements on the basis of emotion rather than historical facts, so I'm not going to spend any more time on it.  What I will do is thank you for your honesty in reporting that your engine ate a valve.  I'm sorry you've had to experience some of what we're complaining about, and I hope the dealer and ESP take care of it for you.

[longlast]

Ok here is the start of the Big Twin 4 stroker HD replacement