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[JCZ]

I ran across this interesting article this morning.....

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

[ultrafxr]

Very interesting and some excellent points made. Thanks for posting JC.


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[grc]

Many industries, not just motorcycling, will feel the pinch as we Boomer's age out and eventually die off.  Look at how many people from the Millennial and "Z" generations don't buy cars at all or just buy low priced basic models for instance, or how many rent rather than buy homes.  As always, there will be lots of change and there will be winners and losers.  Companies in the transportation sector will all need sharp leadership to avoid being the losers.

JMHO - Jerry

[ultrafxr]

Many industries, not just motorcycling, will feel the pinch as we Boomer's age out and eventually die off.  Look at how many people from the Millennial and "Z" generations don't buy cars at all or just buy low priced basic models for instance, or how many rent rather than buy homes.  As always, there will be lots of change and there will be winners and losers.  Companies in the transportation sector will all need sharp leadership to avoid being the losers.

JMHO - Jerry

Spot on Jerry.  I think the glory days of auto mania and even motorcycling we experienced in the 50s, 60s and 70s, is fading.  Too many vehicles on the road, too much congestion, too expensive.  Like you said the younger folks just don't have the emotional connection to vehicles like we do.

[VaEagle]

Lots of interesting points in article and in the replys posted...
I wonder how much of the "thrill of riding" or even driving is lost on younger people now since the cell phone has all of their attention.
Gone are the days i'm afraid where we traveled to enjoy the trip itself and see and smell the nature and attractions around us.
I remember the days when we bought bikes or cars and trucks based on power, performance and handling. Not whether it tied into our phones and had all the electronic bells and whistles.
All the talk about autonomous or self driving vehicles shows how little people are interested in the "driving experience" and just want to pay attention to their electronics and have themselves transported form point a to point b without their involvement.

[BigLew]

I would say as a general rule  I find the new age group lack passion about anything of substance!

BigLew

[Grizzly]

Thanks JC for the very good article.

I don't believe any of us are hearing anything new though.  I'm sure we all have friends that have taken to boats or sport cars in recent years looking for new hobbies after selling their bikes.

I believe H-D is trying to gear their business to the younger crowd in recent year years as well with the introduction of their "Street" lineup and as mentioned on this site many times in the past few months... The 2018 colours appear to be directed at a young market.

We've all said it I'm sure in the past few years that Harley has a major problem with an aging customer base, and we are now starting to see the results.

We started a new HOG Chapter locally 20 years ago with 145 members out of the gate, grew it to almost 200 in the early 2000's, and now we fight to maintain a membership of 100!  Of the original members 20 years ago, there are less than 10 still hanging in there with our group.  There is a number of reasons we've heard over the years, but the main one is boomers getting out of riding all together.

A sign of the changing times.

[OBB]

I would say as a general rule  I find the new age group lack passion about anything of substance!

BigLew

Nailed it!  Or value of anything of substance. Pretty much what Jerry pointed out.

[bbrown]

Nailed it!  Or value of anything of substance. Pretty much what Jerry pointed out.

Sad but true   They are happy doing virtual reality on their Devices

[FLSTFI Dave]

Thanks JC for the very good article.

I believe H-D is trying to gear their business to the younger crowd in recent year years as well with the introduction of their "Street" lineup and as mentioned on this site many times in the past few months... The 2018 colours appear to be directed at a young market.

We've all said it I'm sure in the past few years that Harley has a major problem with an aging customer base, and we are now starting to see the results.

I agree about the Street to try to attract younger buyers.  I'm just not sure their advertising is reaching the intended market.  My nephew, a 20 year old sport bike rider who was recently hit by a drunk driver is looking to get a Harley.  He has been talking to me about sportsters.  I told him to look at the street, he had never heard of it.

As for the 2018 colors, I read an article on the CVO bikes.  The CVO SG and RG with Chrome were targeted at the 50 plus CVO crowd.  Black motor and flat paint or black was targeted at the middle age CVO buyer and the Gunship gray was targeted at the young crowed.  While the color strategy makes sense, as that gray is very popular in the 20 something market.  How many 20 somethings can afford a 40K motorcycle?

Colors like that should be on the street along with other more hip colors.

I also know several in the over 50 crowed that love the Gunship Gray, me being one.

[muddypaws]

Jerry i think you know Harley does not have sharp leadership...

[RonandJanet]

All good points.  I know from my own kids (4) and all the nieces and nephews that they typically do not have the passion for cars, bike or anything mechanical. I have a son that has some passion (two ride and one wants to ride) and one nephew that rides and has the passion.  Part of this is due to electronics and games they have.  They also they don't typically have to work hard to get something. They don't work on cars, like we used to, and then have the pride when it runs and you ride it.  I think the excitement I had working on anything and driving/riding is replaced with playing cool games etc.  They are great kids but typically are driven by different passions.   The funny thing is they all love to play driving/riding games. If we go to Dave and Busters and they will line up to use the car and motorcycle games. My nephew loves bikes and enjoying working on bikes or cars. Somehow if you have the joy of working on mechanical things you seem to want to drive/ride them as well. I know that is true for me. Oh, the nephew that has had two bikes was never aware of the ad campaigns targeted to his age group (mid-20s) etc. He reached out to me and then found what he wanted on-line.     

[WRE4U]

I don't know....I think it is a money thing (or lack of) for the newer riders.  We all spend good money on our bikes, then go out and spend more money on changing them with aftermarket parts that should have been there in the first place, plus all the gear that goes with it.  It is an expensive hobby!!

If I were to become a visionary and invest in the next transportation wave, I would look into the electric motorcycle, a 150 mile range, top speed of 80 MPH, quiet, and most of all.... under $8K for a top of the line bike.  I'm not going to buy it, however I think the younger generation would.
 
Our generation is almost a cult with our Harleys, we won't change, but if the motorbike companies want to stay in business, they had better start marketing to a new clientele, with a newer designs, environmentally safe, inexpensive, fun, and reliable means of transportation.  The days of rallies, beer nights, and bad ass imagery, will soon be over! IMHO   

[Cat Eye]

Onething that's for sure is that the members of this forum are doing their part to sustain this industry.

How many of us have two, three, four or five motorcycles along with a dozen jackets and helmets!

It's a burden, but WTH, it's only money and if it saves the industry until the Snowflakes grow into their accumulation stage of life......well I'm going to the Dealer later today to buy something I don't need but at least I know now my needless purchase serves a greater purpose.

Cat

[bigsixman]

We have an issue in our area in that some of the older riders are getting out of riding do to cell phone use by car drivers and the accidents they cause. Some of my friends still have their bikes, but seldom ride them and I know some of the concern is coming from the wives.

[Grizzly]

Distracted driving is definitely a real BIG problem everywhere.

I apologize for getting off topic, however I recently read a report that claimed more accidents occur today due to distracted driving than all other causes combined!

After reading that and listening to daily news reports of people being killed I went out on a limb and wrote our Prime Minister Trudeau a letter (with a copy to our Transport Minister) suggesting that they mandate that all motor vehicles manufactured for 2019 and beyond come equipped with a discrambler that cuts off the cell phone once the vehicle is shifted out of park or neutral.  Furthermore set a deadline date of 2020 for all other vehicles manufactured prior to 2019 to be equipped with the same discrambler, and that it would certainly pay the government to cover the cost of doing so.  The amount of money being spent on policing this is absolutely ridiculous and they are only scratching the service at best.  For my money, the ONLY way to stop distracted driving/riding is to implement the above into law across the country 100% once and for all.  If people need to talk on their phones, pull over and put the car/bike in park/neutral, and when finished carry on your way safely for all concerned.

That's my weekend rant, which I realize everyone will not agree with but I want to be able to ride safely well into the future and have my kids to the same in their cars on their bikes, etc., and I don't think that that is too much to wish for.

[VaEagle]

Grizzly it might be cheaper and easier to require a speed blocker on all phones since most already have GPS and locator programs installed, just make it law that all phones stop working above a speed like 10mph. Many people replace their phones on a frequent basis but it would take decades to replace the vehicle market - bike, car , truck , buses etc. And your way would require inspections on every old vehicle to make sure it complied with your law......
I do agree with you if the public wants vehicle safety and limit death and destruction something needs to be done.
Another thing to consider would be to make every person applying for a driver's license to take an on road course for bike riding so they can see how dangerous it is out there and regardless if they ever buy a bike or not they will be a more careful driver.

[bigchuck]

I find it some what amusing that large amounts of money are spent on billboards that are designed to get our attention while these same billboards tell us to text or talk later. They are distracting us while telling us not to be distracted.

[J.D.]

Harley's getting the one two punch.

Market is shrinking overall, and the ones who remain, percentage wise, are leaving the brand.

Locally I see less and less bikes, and alot of older (and previously very brand loyal) H-D riders have relatively recently abandoned the brand for a number of reasons, all really tying back to sub-standard product quality, performance, and/or features.

[OBB]

Grizzly it might be cheaper and easier to require a speed blocker on all phones since most already have GPS and locator programs installed, just make it law that all phones stop working above a speed like 10mph. Many people replace their phones on a frequent basis but it would take decades to replace the vehicle market - bike, car , truck , buses etc. And your way would require inspections on every old vehicle to make sure it complied with your law......
I do agree with you if the public wants vehicle safety and limit death and destruction something needs to be done.
Another thing to consider would be to make every person applying for a driver's license to take an on road course for bike riding so they can see how dangerous it is out there and regardless if they ever buy a bike or not they will be a more careful driver.

In theory that would be great until the person in the passenger seat or back seat needed to make a call or use their phone. I think that's one of the huge factors on why it hasn't taken off yet.

They've installed devices in our fleet trucks now that bluetooth to an app installed on our phones. Once that vehicle starts moving, it locks out everything except an ememercy 911 call until the vehicle has been stopped for 60 -90 seconds. It also mutes the ringers and vibration notice so you don't even know if someone tried to call/text/email you. If you hit one button on your phone while that red banner is across the top of the screen, your manager gets an instant text message and they are required to find out why. If it matches up that your truck was shut off and in park, you're good. If you were moving, automatic one day suspension with a life saving behavior mark in your permanent record.

[Chains]

I agree with you guys.  I have done my best to pass on the love of vehicles to my family. The big wheel bike and the two street rods are builds my son did and owns. He also built the sportster for his son that he raised as a single parent. The white police bike is my son in laws.

My other grandson is saving up to buy a bike now. 

[grandpadoc]

Sales are flat or falling and the only way to survive is to pull sales from your competitors. With all the awesome new bikes and technology out there I don't think Harley is going to draw many new riders. We see it even here with our members showing good judgment and buying other brands.
Air cooled, single crankpin farm utility engines still excite me, but I'm 74 years old. A modern bagger with a wet modern motor that eats Wings and you could ride comfortably all day would definitely change my mind about Harley. 

[VaEagle]

In theory that would be great until the person in the passenger seat or back seat needed to make a call or use their phone. I think that's one of the huge factors on why it hasn't taken off yet.

They've installed devices in our fleet trucks now that bluetooth to an app installed on our phones. Once that vehicle starts moving, it locks out everything except an ememercy 911 call until the vehicle has been stopped for 60 -90 seconds.

To me that kinda looks like the "sensible" answer to the problem, only allow 911 calls. All other calls can surely wait until vehicle pulls over to a stop. I think you are close to my generation and we certainly survived not having immediate gratification with instant communication. Younger people never grew up with the concept of having to find a payphone to make a call. When my daughter was very young she couldn't understand reruns of the show "Murder She Wrote" and the star always making the statement "Get me to a phone!" so she could notify the police.
I'm sure that immediate gratification gene comes into play with Harley sales since many younger people just want to throw a leg over a bike and ride for less effort to get it to run right. Then also look at the economic crash of a few years ago and many people can't afford bikes as an expensive toy anymore.

[Ironhorse]

All this is showing us is who the folks with a passion for riding are, young and old.

It wasn't too long ago that owing a motorcycle was a "socially cool thing", almost like part of a clothing ensemble. Same with those cute tote puppies folks bring every where. But then the folks who bought all those bikes found out their "passion" wasn't enough when they got caught in a rain storm in Wyoming, or had to cross the desert at 110 degrees, the non-glamorous side of riding. So the market got glutted with low mileage bikes. Those of us who are left, are the die-hards, and will always be.

As for placing blame on the youth, I can't do that. Yes, they are interested in phones and gadgets, but they have so many wide interests. A focus may come later, and it may or may not include motorcycling. My eldest is finishing grad school and is focused on work as an environmental engineer. Right now he wants to travel the world and visit other countries. My youngest is in his second year of college. His interests are surfing, archery, chess, and studying stuff I can't even pronounce let alone understand. When I look at them and their peers I see the bright future of our nation.

As for motorcycles, there will always be the diehards. As for riders, I see a lot of new riders, as in folks in their 20's. And the majority are women and minorities. Like a lot of manufactures HD recognized that and started their pitch towards them. However these young ones cannot afford an HD, so they buy other brands until they can buy one. Just like a lot of us did.

The market will adjust. It may slow down, but motorcycling is not going to die out in the next 7 years.

[Grizzly]

All this is showing us is who the folks with a passion for riding are, young and old.

It wasn't too long ago that owing a motorcycle was a "socially cool thing", almost like part of a clothing ensemble. Same with those cute tote puppies folks bring every where. But then the folks who bought all those bikes found out their "passion" wasn't enough when they got caught in a rain storm in Wyoming, or had to cross the desert at 110 degrees, the non-glamorous side of riding. So the market got glutted with low mileage bikes. Those of us who are left, are the die-hards, and will always be.

As for placing blame on the youth, I can't do that. Yes, they are interested in phones and gadgets, but they have so many wide interests. A focus may come later, and it may or may not include motorcycling. My eldest is finishing grad school and is focused on work as an environmental engineer. Right now he wants to travel the world and visit other countries. My youngest is in his second year of college. His interests are surfing, archery, chess, and studying stuff I can't even pronounce let alone understand. When I look at them and their peers I see the bright future of our nation.

As for motorcycles, there will always be the diehards. As for riders, I see a lot of new riders, as in folks in their 20's. And the majority are women and minorities. Like a lot of manufactures HD recognized that and started their pitch towards them. However these young ones cannot afford an HD, so they buy other brands until they can buy one. Just like a lot of us did.

The market will adjust. It may slow down, but motorcycling is not going to die out in the next 7 years.

Uh, I just can't imagine that...  My wife and I have hundreds of fond memories from riding trips, but two that really stick out are the one where we rode through (and stayed overnight in) Death Valley in 116° and when we were caught in a snowstorm (in early Sep) in Rocky Mountain NP and had to call a flatbed to haul us down to 6,500' where the temps were a comfortable 50°.

I guess it's a case of "those who are, and those who wish they were". 

Those young'ns just don't know what they're missing!

[FLSTFI Dave]

Uh, I just can't imagine that...  My wife and I have hundreds of fond memories from riding trips, but two that really stick out are the one where we rode through (and stayed overnight in) Death Valley in 116° and when we were caught in a snowstorm (in early Sep) in Rocky Mountain NP and had to call a flatbed to haul us down to 6,500' where the temps were a comfortable 50°.

I guess it's a case of "those who are, and those who wish they were". 

Those young'ns just don't know what they're missing!

My wife  and I have taken many trips on our bikes out west.  The most memorable ones are the 75th anniversary at Sturigs in the horrific hail storm.  Just over 6K damage to my 8 month old CVO Road Glide ultra and a little over 5k damage to my wife's 8 month old Road Glide Special.

Another one we left Sturgis to ride Bear to pass after the Rally, and for two days the Pass was closed due to snow.

I remember riding home to East TN from Santa Fee in the rain the whole way.

Can't wait to make more memories....

[grandpadoc]

My wife  and I have taken many trips on our bikes out west.  The most memorable ones are the 75th anniversary at Sturigs in the horrific hail storm.  Just over 6K damage to my 8 month old CVO Road Glide ultra and a little over 5k damage to my wife's 8 month old Road Glide Special.

Another one we left Sturgis to ride Bear to pass after the Rally, and for two days the Pass was closed due to snow.

I remember riding home to East TN from Santa Fee in the rain the whole way.

Can't wait to make more memories....

Those are the best memories and like yours the ones my wife and I share with friends all the time. 

[ultrafxr]

My wife  and I have taken many trips on our bikes out west.  The most memorable ones are the 75th anniversary at Sturigs in the horrific hail storm.  Just over 6K damage to my 8 month old CVO Road Glide ultra and a little over 5k damage to my wife's 8 month old Road Glide Special.

Another one we left Sturgis to ride Bear to pass after the Rally, and for two days the Pass was closed due to snow.

I remember riding home to East TN from Santa Fee in the rain the whole way.

Can't wait to make more memories....

As they say:  'Foul weather makes fond memories' is true.  Likely as not you don't recall that glorious ride when the conditions were perfect.  But oh the ones like you mentioned above are never forgotten.  And as time goes by the snow gets deeper and the rain more intense.  We all gotta have our 'war stories', lol.
Like you I look forward to the next adventure.

[DesertHOG]

As they say:  'Foul weather makes fond memories' is true.  Likely as not you don't recall that glorious ride when the conditions were perfect.  But oh the ones like you mentioned above are never forgotten.  And as time goes by the snow gets deeper and the rain more intense.  We all gotta have our 'war stories', lol.
Like you I look forward to the next adventure.

It's my experience that the first time trip to a destination is the best, regardless of weather.

Grand Tetons, Glacier National Park, Yosemite NP ... visited several times but the 1st time was just AWESOME for each

[FLSTFI Dave]

As they say:  'Foul weather makes fond memories' is true.  Likely as not you don't recall that glorious ride when the conditions were perfect.  But oh the ones like you mentioned above are never forgotten.  And as time goes by the snow gets deeper and the rain more intense.  We all gotta have our 'war stories', lol.
Like you I look forward to the next adventure.

I do have one trip I will never for get, 5840 miles.  We rode from home to Santa Fee NM, then to Ouray CO, then Estes Park, CO, then Sturgis on a 2 week trip, then home.  Road many Awesome roads and mountain passes.  Not one drop of rain.

I doubt we will ever get another 14 day trip with out a drop of rain.

[FLSTFI Dave]

It's my experience that the first time trip to a destination is the best, regardless of weather.

Grand Tetons, Glacier National Park, Yosemite NP ... visited several times but the 1st time was just AWESOME for each

I do not full agree with your first statement.  I had been all through the Rockies, and 38 states with my parents by the time I was 18.

My third trip to Rocky Mountain Nat park, and Yellowstone was best, I was on a Bike for that trip. 

So I will agree first time on a Bike is best.

[DesertHOG]

I do not full agree with your first statement.  I had been all through the Rockies, and 38 states with my parents by the time I was 18.

My third trip to Rocky Mountain Nat park, and Yellowstone was best, I was on a Bike for that trip. 

So I will agree first time on a Bike is best.

Not stated but implied.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Not stated but implied.

Got you.  I'm wanting to hit Glacier and Hwy to the Sun on my bike.  Haven't done that yet on a bike.

[ultrafxr]

Got you.  I'm wanting to hit Glacier and Hwy to the Sun on my bike.  Haven't done that yet on a bike.

Done it once in 2002 after Sturgis and part way in late June 2016. Had to turn back as road closed due to avalanche dumping snow and blocking the road.  Weather can be a b**** in mountainous areas.


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