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Author Topic: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem  (Read 3798 times)

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lanoseal

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2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« on: March 04, 2018, 12:21:13 AM »

Hi one and all

I have just taken delivery of a 2018 CVO Limited 117. I had a stage IV kit installed before delivery.

I traded a 2016 114 with a stage III and I found that the SE8-498 Cams (Stage III) much more ridable than the SE8-515 fitted with the stage IV. It seams that all the power is above 3000rpm where with the SE8-498 the power rolled on from about 1200 rpm

The question is, should I replace the SE8-515 with the SE8-498. I have a Mastertune TTS to tune the bike?

If I do so will it affect the warranty or cause me any grief?

Dave
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hawgzilla

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 08:05:51 AM »

What tune is in the bike now?  I will assume it’s the stageIV tune from the Harley Street tuner.  Major improvements would be expected from a real tune using TTS.  It WILL void any warranty if the bike shows up at a dealer with the TTS tune in the ECM, however the TTS allows one to return the ECM to its current status prior to taking it to a dealer.
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grc

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 10:28:55 AM »


Dave, hawgzilla gave you the answer relative to the TTS tune.  As to whether or not Harley would give you grief over swapping the cams you really should contact H-D for an answer (corporate, not the dealership).  If they don't offer a legal tune for that combination, even if you restore the legal Stage IV calibration (tune) with the TTS some jerk at a dealership or H-D could mess with you.  The odds are against that, but with Harley you never know. 

Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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kojak

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 12:51:08 PM »

Don’t understand why people keep doing stage 4 upgrades where the power gains are at over 3000 rpm and so many end up with sumping issues.
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kojak
2022 CVO RGL
2022 Apex FLTRK Traded
2021 CVO Limited Bronze Armor Sold
2019 RGS Billiard Blue Traded
2017 CVO Limited Spiked Olive Traded
2016 CVO SG Stardust Traded
2013 CVO RG Atomic Orange Sold
2010 CVO SG Cobalt Sold
2007 CVO RK Blue Traded
2005 CVO EG Teal Traded
And some 20 other bikes over 45 years

teamshocker23

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 07:21:21 PM »

Don’t understand why people keep doing stage 4 upgrades where the power gains are at over 3000 rpm and so many end up with sumping issues.
What do you mean sumping issues?


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kojak

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 07:28:51 PM »

There are many threads on the forum about this.
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kojak
2022 CVO RGL
2022 Apex FLTRK Traded
2021 CVO Limited Bronze Armor Sold
2019 RGS Billiard Blue Traded
2017 CVO Limited Spiked Olive Traded
2016 CVO SG Stardust Traded
2013 CVO RG Atomic Orange Sold
2010 CVO SG Cobalt Sold
2007 CVO RK Blue Traded
2005 CVO EG Teal Traded
And some 20 other bikes over 45 years

mark

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 07:55:22 PM »

What do you mean sumping issues?


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The M8 has suffered oil sumping issues - it seems to be more prevalent in the big bore kits; however, some with the 107 have reported this problem too.  Someone else can probably describe it better, but basically the crankcase fills with oil, causing a drag on the crankshaft.  Result is loss of power and overheating. 
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teamshocker23

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2018, 11:24:06 AM »

The M8 has suffered oil sumping issues - it seems to be more prevalent in the big bore kits; however, some with the 107 have reported this problem too.  Someone else can probably describe it better, but basically the crankcase fills with oil, causing a drag on the crankshaft.  Result is loss of power and overheating.

Ah, that isn’t good at all.  Thank you for the input on it. 



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hrdtail78

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2018, 12:08:50 PM »

Hi one and all

I have just taken delivery of a 2018 CVO Limited 117. I had a stage IV kit installed before delivery.

I traded a 2016 114 with a stage III and I found that the SE8-498 Cams (Stage III) much more ridable than the SE8-515 fitted with the stage IV. It seams that all the power is above 3000rpm where with the SE8-498 the power rolled on from about 1200 rpm

The question is, should I replace the SE8-515 with the SE8-498. I have a Mastertune TTS to tune the bike?

If I do so will it affect the warranty or cause me any grief?

Dave

Changing cams to another SE cam should not void your warranty, but it is best to ask.  My question is.  How would they know what cam is in there unless they take it apart to look?

Did you have them download the stage 4 calibration before you tuned it with TTS?  If so, put the MTE file back into the ECM. Get ECM info.  Write down the calibration number.  Find the TTS starter cal and under the edit tab.  There is a Edit calibration part number.....and name the TTS cal whatever the download was named.  This way if they do plug in a DT.  The SE calibration part number will come up.  Harley has no way to pull the calibration to actually look at it, and most HD techs wont even know what to look for.  If HD does do your work.  You can always download the MTE which is the SE download anyway.  Have a real warranty issue?  Find an indy shop and have them do the work.  Yes, you do not need a HD dealer to be able to do warranty work.  I have no motivation to turn people in over warranty violations, and Harley has no authority over me to make me pay a fine.
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grc

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2018, 01:26:50 PM »


Actually I'm pretty certain factory warranty work has to be handled through a franchised dealer.  It's the ESP service contract work that can be handled by independent shops.  Once the bike is out of factory warranty, I'm also a big fan of finding a good indy for non-warranty or ESP work.

Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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Heatwave

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 01:11:51 PM »

Don’t understand why people keep doing stage 4 upgrades where the power gains are at over 3000 rpm and so many end up with sumping issues.

Because you can have warranty coverage on hi-flow heads, 64mm TB and larger injectors with the 515 cam. Yeah the 2000-2500rpm range is slightly softer than stock which sucks. 2500-3000 feels about the same as stock and above 3000 is DRAMATICALLY stronger than stock. I can honestly say the Stage IV is still a sweet ride.

The real benefit IMO is that down the road a Stage IV bike will already have the higher performance parts on the bike. A simple cam swap and tune will result in MASSIVE performance increases. Just need to get out from under the MoCo's warranty hammer to get some serious performance gains.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 01:04:50 PM by Heatwave »
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lanoseal

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 12:32:08 AM »

Thank fellas for your advice.

I waited until first service (1800Km) had dealership install SE8-498 Cams and dyno tune.

Sweetest ride ever 122.8 HP and wheel and 122.42 FT IBS Torque.

Build as it stands now

2108 CVO Limited in Dark Earth and Vivid Black
V&H Power Duel Headers in Black
V & H Monster Round Mufflers in Black
Stage IV
SE8-498 Cams
TTS Tuner

All supplied, fitted and tune at Dealership

I still have a smile on my dial for an hour after riding it.

Dave


« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 12:39:36 AM by lanoseal »
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PFWiz

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2018, 11:52:36 AM »

Please show us (me) a Dyno Chart!!!!
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lanoseal

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Re: 2018 CVO Limited with Stage IV Cam Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 06:47:15 PM »

Attached dyna Chart
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