Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All

Author Topic: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??  (Read 13022 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 12:11:33 PM »

I know we will never get the truth but it would be nice to see figures of the true number of motors with this issue. Not just the total number of complaints but overall percentage. As with most vehicle owner websites the most vocal members with problems get the majority of coverage since most owners without issues generally don't post things like "Rode my bike today and nothing bad happened etc." Especially when you realize the majority of a specific vehicle are not members of the website too.
My dad taught me decades ago not to buy into advertising hype since "even Rolls-Royce has repair shops".  :huepfenlol2: so every brand has some issues to deal with over time.

Your comments are very true, you will always hear more from those with a problem than from those with no problem.  Every product will also have some baseline failure rate, nothing is perfect.  But certain things are very rare, and sumping that leads to total engine failure is extremely rare in engines using a dry sump oiling system.  The fact that we never heard of this issue with the Twin Cams (unless the oil pump was damaged), and we have heard of many failures on the M8 since it was introduced, is pretty convincing empirical evidence there is a big problem.  Even if the actual percentage of engines built so far that failed due to sumping is relatively small, it's a pretty big deal if you happen to be one of the folks who had the problem or may have in the future.  Don't forget, some of the reported failures didn't occur immediately, some occurred after tens of thousands of miles.  Then when you add the history with other design issues/quality issues and failures Harley allowed to go on for extended periods of time, it's not hard to understand why this has become an emotional issue. 

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.

Swbike

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • MD


    • CVO1: 2016 CVO ROADGLIDE
    • CVO2: 2005 CVO Electra Glide
    • CVO3: 2019 RGU CVO wannabe
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »

I can tell HD this, after 2 years of seeing all the sumping issues, It’s really hard to see the value of a new bike. I for one really don’t want to go thru the hassle and wasted time after spending a lot of money to purchase a new Harley to have problems.
Logged

T-Roy

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 630
    • LA


    • CVO1: 2013 CVO Road King - Traded In
    • CVO2: 2019 Indian Chieftain Limited
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2018, 12:34:59 PM »

I am buying a new bike 5 months from now, good Lord willing and the creek don’t rise. However, unless things change drastically between now and then, it will be a new 2019 Indian Chieftain. Just do some research to see how Indian treated there customers when they had some issues with their 116 big bore kit and how they handled the fix. If you are like me you will be impressed.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 08:05:11 AM by T-Roy »
Logged

dayne66

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4037
    • BC


    • CVO1: '12 Ruby/Typhoon SG
    • CVO2: '15 Superior Blue FLD Switchback
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2018, 01:28:22 PM »

I can tell HD this, after 2 years of seeing all the sumping issues, It’s really hard to see the value of a new bike. I for one really don’t want to go thru the hassle and wasted time after spending a lot of money to purchase a new Harley to have problems.
When the time comes to replace my FLHXSE3....I'll find a FLHXSE3...or 2....with known and 'easily' fixable shortcomings......with very low miles. I know of an O/B '11 with 9000 miles on it...with a TP.
Logged
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." Socrates

swhalen

  • Junior CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 08:32:58 PM »

no they don't... and the nicest people you'll ever meet ride them  ::)
Your showing your age lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

swhalen

  • Junior CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2018, 08:36:04 PM »

I am kinda new. Went from a 16 RGSE to a 19. Wow what a difference. No sumping here but only have 1000 miles so far. Love all the power


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Tn.Heritage

  • Junior CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2018, 06:41:18 AM »

I am buying a new bike 5 months from now, good Lord willing and the creek don’t rise. However, unless things change drastically between now and then, it will be a new 2019 Indian Chieftain. Just do some research to see how Ondian treated there customers when they had some issues with their 116 big bore kit and how they handled the fix. If you are like me you will be impressed.
I'm sorta where your at right now. If I buy new, I'd like to have the 2019 Roadmaster, the white pearl and silver, put the open fender on with there 19" front tire and wheel, that thing looks bad azz. Also change the front chrome nachele as well. Then I'd also have the 116 big bore kit installed.
Logged
2019 Limited Low 114, S&S 475 cam, PR's, LC's, lifters,S&S Sidewinder 2-n-1 with a Roland Sands AC. Tuned with a PV tuner at J&B Performance.

mark

  • Guest
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »

Regardless of the number of sumping engines, a billion dollar company that’s made bikes since 1903 should be able to design and produce a trouble free engine.  If the Japanese, Polaris, and the Germans can do it, I have no explanation of why a company with such deep pockets cannot.  There is no way I’d risk $45k+ on an M8 CVO.  However, some will, just not me.
Logged

HighOnHD

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • WA


    • CVO1: 2015 FLHXSE UV Blue/Molten Lava
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2018, 09:08:23 PM »

Regardless of the number of sumping engines, a billion dollar company that’s made bikes since 1903 should be able to design and produce a trouble free engine.  If the Japanese, Polaris, and the Germans can do it, I have no explanation of why a company with such deep pockets cannot.  There is no way I’d risk $45k+ on an M8 CVO.  However, some will, just not me.

Well a 1 minute search for BMW engine problems brought this. Will the MoCo pounding ever cease???

Logged

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2018, 10:34:03 PM »

Well a 1 minute search for BMW engine problems brought this. Will the MoCo pounding ever cease???

You forgot to note the response BMW gave him on his engine noise concern.  They are buying the bike back at full price.  None of that "it's normal, they all do that", none of the just giving the bike back and telling the customer to ride it until it fails so they can find the problem, or any of the other usual ploys Harley and it's dealers use.

Every company on the planet has defects and failures.  The difference is in the amount of those issues and in the response to them. 

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.

charles05663

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1214
    • TX


    • CVO1: FLTRSE3 - Petunia
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2018, 10:41:57 PM »

Well a 1 minute search for BMW engine problems brought this. Will the MoCo pounding ever cease???

That was a short thread with positive outcome.  It only took BMW one day from the initial post to offer to buy the bike back.  Heck, HD will keep your bike for months and never offer any positive outcome.

 :oops: :nixweiss:
Logged
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
Matthew 4:19

http://www.thefishermenministry.net/

Q:  What is the USA's number one export to China?
A:  Trash!  They loved our high quality trash. (not any longer).

      Stolen technology and Jobs!

HighOnHD

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • WA


    • CVO1: 2015 FLHXSE UV Blue/Molten Lava
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2018, 11:08:59 PM »

That was a short thread with positive outcome.  It only took BMW one day from the initial post to offer to buy the bike back.  Heck, HD will keep your bike for months and never offer any positive outcome.

 :oops: :nixweiss:

No OOPS really! I did not see a single reference to response time, or positive outcomes in the post I responded to. Just correcting the post saying BMW's etc are essentially perfect!

Also, I suppose I could have included the very first response to the OP's post in the BMW thread. I'll include it here to show that BMW does not have a pristine record on response  either!

It's just that every time I take a break from actually riding my bike and pop in here to find threads where a member posts an actual question and two-thirds of the replies a just pounding on Moco. No wonder this forum has lost it's luster to new members. Who wants to buy their dream bike and go read how big of a POS it is! Most just go ride their bike rather than live on this site crying like babies day after day! :)

Bike to riding for me! Have fun!




Logged

FLSTFI Dave

  • IBA 69147
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6709

    • CVO1: 2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
    • CVO2: 2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
    • CVO3: 2003 Fatboy, 95"quot, S&ampS 570 gear drive cam
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2018, 08:33:41 AM »

Well a 1 minute search for BMW engine problems brought this. Will the MoCo pounding ever cease???
Will the MoCo make a engine that is reliable for 50K miles for the CVO?

First two years of the 110, cylinders leaking oil on block, the rest of the production run, compensator issues and lifter issues.  Yep my 12 left me stranded with clutch and compensator.  My 15 left me stranded with failed lifters.  HD still having lifter issues with the 110 in the 10 year of production.

M8, sumping in 2017, and 2018.  Now it looks like a couple 2019's.

I'm sure the bashing will stop, when they make a motor that does not fail before 50K miles.
Logged
2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
2019 FLTRXSE Red Pepper / Magnetic Gray Traded
2018 FLTRXSE Gunship Gray  Traded
2017 FLHXSE  Starfire Black / Atomic Red  Traded
2015 FLTRUSE Abyss Blue / Crushed Saphire Traded
2013 FLHRSE5 Diamond Dust 117  Traded
2012 FLTRXSE White Gold Pearl / Starfire Black  Traded
2009 FLTRSE3 Silver/Titanium  Traded
2003 Fatboy, real fire paint set,

FLSTFI Dave

  • IBA 69147
  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6709

    • CVO1: 2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
    • CVO2: 2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
    • CVO3: 2003 Fatboy, 95"quot, S&ampS 570 gear drive cam
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2018, 08:40:00 AM »

No OOPS really! I did not see a single reference to response time, or positive outcomes in the post I responded to. Just correcting the post saying BMW's etc are essentially perfect!

Also, I suppose I could have included the very first response to the OP's post in the BMW thread. I'll include it here to show that BMW does not have a pristine record on response  either!

It's just that every time I take a break from actually riding my bike and pop in here to find threads where a member posts an actual question and two-thirds of the replies a just pounding on Moco. No wonder this forum has lost it's luster to new members. Who wants to buy their dream bike and go read how big of a POS it is! Most just go ride their bike rather than live on this site crying like babies day after day! :)

Bike to riding for me! Have fun!
I am willing to be I ride a lot more miles a year on my bikes than you do on yours.  Yet I still bash HD for making motors that are unreliable and fail.  I have had 3 since 2012 fail.  Lifters took out two different bike motors. 

With all the failures for sumping on the 17, I traded mine for an 18 hoping the issue was fixed.  It wasn't so I still worry about my 18 with 24,000 miles on it.

So while I complain about the crappy motor, mainly because it a pain having the motor fail hundred of miles from home while on a trip.  I know from experience. 

But you do not get 24,000 miles on a year old bike by not riding it....
Logged
2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
2019 FLTRXSE Red Pepper / Magnetic Gray Traded
2018 FLTRXSE Gunship Gray  Traded
2017 FLHXSE  Starfire Black / Atomic Red  Traded
2015 FLTRUSE Abyss Blue / Crushed Saphire Traded
2013 FLHRSE5 Diamond Dust 117  Traded
2012 FLTRXSE White Gold Pearl / Starfire Black  Traded
2009 FLTRSE3 Silver/Titanium  Traded
2003 Fatboy, real fire paint set,

mark

  • Guest
Re: Sumping, should the MoCo be looking elsewhere??
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2018, 09:21:26 AM »

Well a 1 minute search for BMW engine problems brought this. Will the MoCo pounding ever cease???

I believe your post supports my comments more than it supports yours.  How many more engine failure posts did you find for BMW...any reoccurring engine failures noted over and over?  I did note in your post that BMW admitted a problem and agreed to replace the bike...how about that. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All
 

Page created in 0.18 seconds with 21 queries.