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Author Topic: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?  (Read 6660 times)

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DBinSD

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More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« on: December 02, 2018, 12:05:01 PM »

Hi all,
New member to the CVO family w/2015 RGU CVO <15k miles no issues thus far.

I ride mostly 2up, long dat rides as well as cross country. prefer back curvy roads, lower speed, higher tq. I do not need race HP curves or speed. Passing power is fine.

I will change lifters, rods, oil pump and plate. (S&S Premium & rods, TC3)

My question is:

While in there, without doing head work (labor savings) I plan on cam change (possible TTS100), air intake, head pipe and muffler swap BUT, do not prefer loud. I like quiter / deep sounds.

Goal is to improve TQ over stock, keep relatively quite, replace defective parts and keep shop labor to minimum. In other words, relatively stock just better.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thank for you imput.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2018, 12:21:41 PM »

Coming from a head porter, keep with your plan unless you want more horsepower up top and a broader torque curve.

If I was on a reliability expedition, which I was at one time I own a CVO 2013 RK by the way, I would change to a cam with a little more overlap like the TTS 150 and use a .030 HG. At that time change the valve springs to a little lighter overall pressure, not beehives. I do practice what I preach. I wanted reliability, cool running and a little more power but something I could accomplish on a weekend day (no porting). Mine has springs changed, HD adjustable pushrods, Topline Hylift slow bleed lifters, Andrews TW54, .030 HG, Premium dual springs with Tool Steel retainers 135# seat pressure 380# open, viton seals, head fans. Tuned with TTS
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 12:28:43 PM »

Dbin,

Check out the posts in the "cams again" thread...You are headed in the right direction, but if you want more later you may want to consider numerous other midrange cams?TTS 150, TMAN 577, 600, OR 625, GMR 577, TC 24D, SE 585, WOODS 777, OR 888, CR 575, or S&S 570 just to name a few) , when combined with the proper headwork, and compression for your riding style , and pipe selection could produce high torque in the lower rpms..choose your cam and head builder wisely..
GOOD LUCK

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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 01:38:40 PM »

HD Street and CVO 2015,
Thank you for your responses and info.

However, both responses require “head work” or at leasr the labor to get into them. That is what I am trying to avoid. Your recommendations are very sound though and do not fall on deaf ears. Hard of hearing yes.

What about getting the overlap of the TTS150 WithOut changing the HG? Not worth it?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2018, 01:50:22 PM »

Dbsin... I was just like you, a non believer,  until I got headwork done in my 103 with Don at HDSP....My 103 (116 tq.) gets more torque than my CVO SE 110 with Fullsachs (114)with the same cam...SE 585...but when I do my 110 heads they will be closer to 130 torque...Also changing my pipe to a D&D Fatcat on my 103 to get more h.p..Headwork is roughly 599.99 with Don and they will be tailored to whichever cams you choose to get the optimum torque...You can do it once and get the most or do it twice and spend double the labor..

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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 02:02:27 PM »

CVO,
I am a believer in head work. I unfortunately do not wish to do the work myself this go around and was looking to save on shop labor.
To have it torn apart then send the heads out makes me very nervous sitting in a dealer or someones shop.  :o
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 02:47:16 PM »

DBsinSD

Ask your shop what's the difference in labor price for cams vs. Cams and head gasket..? Then determine if it's worth it to you? If they are going to remove the heads, then the base gasket is at the bottom anyways..I would change out the lifters to S&S or Johnson Hylift since that seems to be the weak point in CVOs ..I rode my bike 250 miles yesterday in some cool windy weather California..Basrtsow/Yermo  area..Not sure where you live or your weather,  but the winter is a perfect time to increase performance..

My CVO ran really good yesterday...but then again my wife's 2015 103 ran good as well..

I live in the desert and rode 19, 600 miles this last year and I prefer to keep my compression under 10.5 in order to put pump has in it, gas and go...My CVO went trouble free to Canada this last June..My 2012 roadglide has 83,000 miles and we took a trouble free trip to North Carolina (via the 10 to Fl.) and came back the 40..Grand kids stay in Vegas..We ride their often..Love Havesu too..visited Steve (Full Sachs DX pipe, and 1.75 power cores, and Aim Slip and Assist clutch with new plate)...Wife loves Death Valley...All hot places to ride in the summer..

If I was the type to leave well enough alone I would have put the TTS 100 in(crusher pipes, fullsachs, or D&D Fatcats, dyno tune (with TTS, or power vision) and refrained from looking at any other forums or dyno sheets..lol

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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 03:15:14 PM »

CVO,

I will ask them.

Are your Fullsacs w/1.75 cores quite? Did they rob torque at all? Why did you not choose 2.0?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 05:01:08 PM »

They are pretty quiet, and gave me higher torque earlier in the powerband...same thing TTS 100 and 150 with a good pipe,air cleaner, and tune...Steve (at full Sachs recommended 1.75s for torque (and quitest), 2.0 for both, and the last one for h.p and more noise...and looking at the dyno sheets for both the 1.75s and 2.0s which I think Steve at GMR did they were 1 ft lb/1 h.p difference ..

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 05:05:46 PM »

@Dbin..Talk to Steve at Full sach..He has done a cvo 110 with his pipe and a Tman 600 cam with a cometic head gasket getting 120 torque..no headwork..

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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 05:12:33 PM »

Thanks CVO, I have emailed him though the forum.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 05:37:19 PM »

You can email him regular email as well..gofaster@fullsachs.com

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2018, 05:45:13 PM »

https://fullsac.com

FullSac is the correct spelling guys.

Not to be confused with another site vendor who does awesome work for us here: John Sachs.

Carry on....

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2018, 05:56:56 PM »

Gracias !
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 06:01:03 PM »

Sorry guys..I hate this Note 9..spelling is horrible..

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Unbalanced

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2018, 07:04:22 PM »

They are pretty quiet, and gave me higher torque earlier in the powerband...same thing TTS 100 and 150 with a good pipe,air cleaner, and tune...Steve (at full Sachs recommended 1.75s for torque (and quitest), 2.0 for both, and the last one for h.p and more noise...and looking at the dyno sheets for both the 1.75s and 2.0s which I think Steve at GMR did they were 1 ft lb/1 h.p difference ..

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Steve @ Fullsac located near Lake Havasu maybe  - John Sachs is a Porter /Engine Builder from Central Florida

If the plan is too change cams and are you are considering a headgasket   Put a .030 on there and deck the heads a little bit say .020-.024 while they are off and install the 24d   

Save the headwork for later -
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2018, 07:10:47 PM »

John Sachs does awesome headwork as well..saw a nice TC 24D with Sachs headwork..nice flat torque curve 128/127 +/- a few..

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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2018, 08:11:34 PM »

Guys !
The idea was NOT to remove heads.

Again I will ask what the labor cost is to remove them but, my initial intent was not to remove them.
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MCE

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 11:28:42 PM »

Increasing the TQ is done by increasing cylinder pressure. Stuffing the cylinder with as much air (and fuel) as possible.
A little porting and more importantly, the valve job, will help achieve that end goal.

Get a valve job done by someone that knows something about air flow, and you'd be well served. 2 cents...   
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2018, 11:33:46 PM »

Sachs does amazing head work.  He did my 12 110 street glide and it was fantastic. 125 square and never had a problem. Along with the 24d cams and the 58mm intake I was very happy.   Stuart  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2018, 11:48:03 PM »

DBin SD ..Here is a dyno sheet from the TTS website..2015 Cvo with TTS 100 cams... You should have the SE 255 cams in yours now, which may not hit 100 ft lbs of torque as early as the TTS 100 cams..Compare this sheet to tour own, if you have gotten a dyno tune...I don't know the specs on each cam, but I would bet that they are close...

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 10:31:58 AM »

Nothing done yet, not even a tune.

Trying to line out a plan of attack.

The specs for a stock 2015, 110 CVO state 115TQ? Is that what others have seen from stock or are they just bloated numbers from corp?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 10:42:27 AM »

That's with a dyno tunecand good pipe on average...

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 10:55:03 AM »

Steve (great guy) at Fullsac just emailed.

He recommended:

TTS150 cam, new lifters, original oil pump & rods, DX header pipes, 2.0 CVO baffles, Techmat, OEM AC.

Sounds like I have marching orders !
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 11:37:07 AM »


The specs for a stock 2015, 110 CVO state 115TQ? Is that what others have seen from stock or are they just bloated numbers from corp?

Those numbers are at the crank and don't account for powertrain losses. Dyno numbers that folks are posting are tq at the rear wheel.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 12:23:57 PM »

DB,

Steve is great... He has all the products that you are interested in and can dyno tune it as well...

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2018, 03:15:15 AM »

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 07:06:29 AM »

take the $$ your going to put into the plate & pump and use it for headwork.as long as your OEM plate & pump isn't damaged,theres no reason to replace them.110`s respond to headwork very well,we do a lot of them

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2018, 08:50:41 AM »

ProDrag I certainly am considering it !

NoCVO, I appreciate the graph but, the two “main” considerations are not listed. TTS150 and 24D.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 09:10:40 AM »

TO DB

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 12:07:00 PM »

Think cylinder pressure, when adding duration and the associated later intake close after bdc coming up on compression you will lose cylinder pressure vs stock. That takes a hit down low unless something is done to recover the lost pressure. Porting helps as part of s matches package but in tests I have done a stock 96" picked up 7hp and 5 ft.lb. with no loss or gain down low. All thr goodness happened above 3000 rpm
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2018, 06:07:39 AM »

ProDrag I certainly am considering it !

NoCVO, I appreciate the graph but, the two “main” considerations are not listed. TTS150 and 24D.
Just trying to point out that a cam change can give decent gains, I used 32's in a stock 110 for awhile, it was loads better than stock to ride, how far you go depends on what you really want deep down.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2018, 09:46:15 AM »

It’s a hard decision. :'(
I’m not looking for race power or torque.
I’m looking for a higher torque motor than stock 110CVO has. A solid puller that is just at home on the Dragon as it is Beartooth pass or North cascade Highway with passenger and gear.
My concern is, getting into the heads would dictate MORE work so that the internals will not get chewed up in 20k miles. :-\
I know the lifter issue and some oil pump bypass issues but, can a simple cam chest work over with lifters, rods, cams (TTS150), maybe TC3 pump, Fullsac DX headers, CVO exhausts w/ Fullsac 2.0 bore and Techmat achieve my goal.  :nixweiss:  :2vrolijk_21:
According to Steve it does.  :bananarock:
So continuing to tear the motor down and removing the heads may be more time, money and effort needed to achieve my goal? THAT is where OTHERS EXPERIENCE comes in !  :drink:
I have appreciated all those that have chimed in thus far, thanks. ;D
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2018, 10:20:20 AM »

Since you don't want to remove the Heads / care about "race HP/TQ"...

The low end torque of the stock 255s is hard to beat,,, just do A/C, Pipes (not true duals, and use Mufflers with a smaller baffle,,, 1.75 no bigger than 2 inch) and a Tune,,,

S&S Premium Lifters, (cut stock Pushrods) and SE Adjustable Pushrods...

The most efficient route for what you're wanting,,, a foundation for future mods when/if you decide you want more...
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 01:31:18 PM »

Since you don't want to remove the Heads / care about "race HP/TQ"...

The low end torque of the stock 255s is hard to beat,,, just do A/C, Pipes (not true duals, and use Mufflers with a smaller baffle,,, 1.75 no bigger than 2 inch) and a Tune,,,

The most efficient route for what you're wanting,,, a foundation for future mods when/if you decide you want more...

That's what I thought about based on the goals and riding description. Sounds like the OP would be happy with just a solid exhaust combo and tune while utilizing the cams already in there.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 10:09:05 PM »

Ask 100 people, you'll get a 100 answers. Two of them will be right.

If pulling the heads is off the table, your choices are narrowed down,
and your gains limited.

It's your decision. Budget and expected gains are proportional. Only
you know where those boundaries lie. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:19:35 PM by MCE Performance »
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MCE

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 10:51:01 PM »

It’s a hard decision. :'(
I’m not looking for race power or torque.
I’m looking for a higher torque motor than stock 110CVO has. A solid puller that is just at home on the Dragon as it is Beartooth pass or North cascade Highway with passenger and gear.
My concern is, getting into the heads would dictate MORE work so that the internals will not get chewed up in 20k miles. :-\
I know the lifter issue and some oil pump bypass issues but, can a simple cam chest work over with lifters, rods, cams (TTS150), maybe TC3 pump, Fullsac DX headers, CVO exhausts w/ Fullsac 2.0 bore and Techmat achieve my goal.  :nixweiss:  :2vrolijk_21:
According to Steve it does.  :bananarock:
So continuing to tear the motor down and removing the heads may be more time, money and effort needed to achieve my goal? THAT is where OTHERS EXPERIENCE comes in !  :drink:
I have appreciated all those that have chimed in thus far, thanks. ;D

It's not all that difficult, although some people would like you to think it's rocket science.

As far as head work goes; A really good valve job is all you'd need. "Good", meaning high
flowing. (Performance valve job refers to high flow.)

The biggest flow improvements are found in the valve seat/valve profile on a street engine. 
A little work in the bowl is icing on the cake, but not mandatory. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:52:37 PM by MCE Performance »
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 09:31:30 AM »

Try back to back tests on the cvo matt, I have. The stock valve job, albeit not conventional flows better than you think. And to the OP and others I personally got rid of the se255 cams for many reasons, not low end torque or riding fun. The ramps are part of the reason they eat lifters.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2018, 08:45:04 AM »

Try back to back tests on the cvo matt, I have. The stock valve job, albeit not conventional flows better than you think. And to the OP and others I personally got rid of the se255 cams for many reasons, not low end torque or riding fun. The ramps are part of the reason they eat lifters.

A bloke over here tested them, has his own bench and dynos, he published the results on the Aussie forum some time back. They do ok for a stock head.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2018, 09:07:13 AM »

We are handed a factory part. We need to evaluate the shortcomings and its suitability to the motor displacement. In the case of the CVO head I am sure every porter puts their own spin of a valve job on them but the added airflow potential comes from other places with that head. Same goes with the fixing of the throat dimension with a larger intake valve. You can't just put the larger valve in and expect the rest of the geometry will follow suite and be happy just because the throat % is a little more favorable. Interesting to look at a very well known CNC version of this head that doesn't touch many of the areas of the head but works over others extensively.  Not to be confused with core shift, this is deliberate.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2018, 10:31:10 AM »

Don, 10 years ago you and Dewey explained how to improve these heads simply, and on this forum to boot, search brings it up if anyone wants to look.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 10:47:21 AM »

I am well aware because I bought his business when he became disabled due to a stroke. That was 10 years ago.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 11:01:58 AM »

I'm aware of that to, I've been ghosting these forums a long time under one name or another, my point was that the solution has been around a long time, I have a question though, if one goes the 2.125" intake valve route would the SE 10.5 pistons need any valve relief work? Obviously you would measure and clay but as a rule?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 11:48:58 AM »

There are no hard fast rules on the bigger valve and clearance because it would depend on how much was milled and the thickness of the gasket plus the TDC lift during overlap. Bottom line is they should all be checked.

And regarding the valve change, it is not the worst thing to do or even bad just don't expect it to pay off with big of dividends as touted without fixing the rest of the port geometry. My point is time marches on and solutions evolve with change. I respect Dewey and what he told me years ago but if he would have gone on, mind you the twin cam was a 2007 110, he was messing with in 2008 (not many test cases yet), he would have got the flow bench he had ordered and been able to see hundreds of test cases with the passage of time. I rode his bike 2007 CVO springer, it was fun. His 95" Dyna would smoke it however with a 1.94 intake valve. Just one small element out of the big picture.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 12:48:02 PM by HD Street Performance »
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 02:13:01 PM »

Thanks for that very balanced reply Don, appreciate it.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 05:35:26 PM »

Time for an unbalanced reply :P
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 05:38:58 PM »

1.) Fixing the Short side radius and bowl, 2.) fixing the throat (bigger valve)  and 3.) the right valve job will get you close to the full potential of that head. The rest is less significant in the grand scheme of things.

just my 2 cents
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 05:47:29 PM »

Matt what about the right spring pressures on the seat and open and zero deck.   Why give up HP to drive un-needed pressures?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 05:59:46 PM »

Matt what about the right spring pressures on the seat and open and zero deck.   Why give up HP to drive un-needed pressures?

It all adds up.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 06:09:47 PM »

1.) Fixing the Short side radius and bowl, 2.) fixing the throat (bigger valve)  and 3.) the right valve job will get you close to the full potential of that head. The rest is less significant in the grand scheme of things.

just my 2 cents

By doing the above items.

Does it require more changes internally or externally (tranny, clutch etc.) to handle more power? Other than the chest parts of cam, lifters, rods, possibly cam plate and oil pump, headers, exhaust I mentioned earlier?

Additionally, without getting specific. Are we talking under $1k, $1.5k or over $2k for the head work mentioned?

Further, what numbers (TQ/HP) would be ”reasonable” to expect from the above work as an increase from a stock 110 ?

Thanks for your time.
Dan

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2018, 06:37:56 PM »

I really appreciate the way you blokes don't mind educating people, obviously most of us are not going to run out and start our own shop but it does help to know what's needed if you want someone to do the work because you know the right questions to ask before you let them at it, you know, just to be sure they know what's what.
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More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2018, 07:14:26 PM »

By doing the above items.

Does it require more changes internally or externally (tranny, clutch etc.) to handle more power? Other than the chest parts of cam, lifters, rods, possibly cam plate and oil pump, headers, exhaust I mentioned earlier?

Additionally, without getting specific. Are we talking under $1k, $1.5k or over $2k for the head work mentioned?

Further, what numbers (TQ/HP) would be ”reasonable” to expect from the above work as an increase from a stock 110 ?

Thanks for your time.
Dan

Depending on porter the headwork will be in the range $600-$1000

Before I’d buy a clutch I would try an AIM VPC on top of the existing clutch

I’d put in new lifters with a new cam.   The cam chest  will be dependent on wear of the pump or plate or if you have need for more pressure at idle when hot.

Exhaust changes would be recommended to take advantage of the improvements and a throttlebody upgrade to a 58 with 5.3 injectors.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 07:18:18 PM by Unbalanced »
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2018, 10:01:23 PM »

By doing the above items.

Does it require more changes internally or externally (tranny, clutch etc.) to handle more power? Other than the chest parts of cam, lifters, rods, possibly cam plate and oil pump, headers, exhaust I mentioned earlier?

Additionally, without getting specific. Are we talking under $1k, $1.5k or over $2k for the head work mentioned?

Further, what numbers (TQ/HP) would be ”reasonable” to expect from the above work as an increase from a stock 110 ?

Thanks for your time.
Dan
Way under a $K! You'd get 10/10 TQ easy, depending on cam, HP would go way up.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2018, 02:01:09 AM »

Time for an unbalanced reply :P

Funny buggas lol
On the VPC, how do they go on the hydraulic clutch? I had one on my old Dyna but it was cable, would it make the pull much heavier at high rpm than it is now?
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2018, 06:56:36 AM »

Funny buggas lol
On the VPC, how do they go on the hydraulic clutch? I had one on my old Dyna but it was cable, would it make the pull much heavier at high rpm than it is now?

Mine have never been much different from the pull you have now
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2018, 10:49:23 AM »

By doing the above items.

Does it require more changes internally or externally (tranny, clutch etc.) to handle more power? Other than the chest parts of cam, lifters, rods, possibly cam plate and oil pump, headers, exhaust I mentioned earlier?

Additionally, without getting specific. Are we talking under $1k, $1.5k or over $2k for the head work mentioned?

Further, what numbers (TQ/HP) would be ”reasonable” to expect from the above work as an increase from a stock 110 ?

Thanks for your time.
Dan
Are we talking under $1k
Yes
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2018, 11:31:46 AM »

Unless you're going to go crazy with motor upgrades, a good stock style clutch will be fine.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2018, 11:52:15 AM »

These replies help considerably, thank you !

If you have more to add, please do.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2018, 09:20:19 AM »

Matt what about the right spring pressures on the seat and open and zero deck.   Why give up HP to drive un-needed pressures?
Harry, I have seen some dyno tests done using some extremes and horsepower loss was minimal on the oversprung version. In fact it maintained power better past the peak rpm. Not a suggestion but I found the data interesting but also predicted. The force of compression is the same as the potential energy. I am working on some spring packages that just control the valves with typical hydraulic roller cams we use and the heavy cvo valves. My reason for lightening the force is to save the lifters, rocker bushings, valve stem tips, and rockers. Also lifter bleed off is a concern, which is the noise we hear, lash which is lost lift. With a lower spring rate and seat pressure these cvos get much quieter.
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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2018, 10:00:45 AM »

By doing the above items.

Does it require more changes internally or externally (tranny, clutch etc.) to handle more power? Other than the chest parts of cam, lifters, rods, possibly cam plate and oil pump, headers, exhaust I mentioned earlier?

Additionally, without getting specific. Are we talking under $1k, $1.5k or over $2k for the head work mentioned?

Further, what numbers (TQ/HP) would be ”reasonable” to expect from the above work as an increase from a stock 110 ?

Thanks for your time.
Dan

My testing has shown, on average you can expect at least 10/10 more hp/tq. Your results will vary based
on a plethora of factors. Mainly the cams, pipe and tune. But 10/10 is pretty typical if you're just doing head
work.

I did some testing a few years ago along these lines. We started with a couple mildly cammed bikes with stock heads.
Before and after dyno runs with very mild head work (pocket port and valve job) showed pretty significant gains
across the entire RPM range. They gained TQ all over the board and didn't lose anywhere. The bigger the motor, the
bigger the gains. I tested 80ci EVO, 95" TC and a 110 TC. All of them showed very similar gains. The 110 picked up
more than the smaller motors, but the before/after curves all looked similar.
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:26:15 AM by MCE Performance »
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