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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Overlappinglittlepig on November 04, 2018, 01:05:09 PM
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Could I safety assume that my 2016 CVO Roadglide does in fact have the new upgraded Screaming Eagle lifters in the engine? I have heard so many conflicting stories.
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Yes it does and yes they still go bad. I had to have mine changed at the 30k service on my '15 as they were just starting to delaminate.
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Could I safety assume that my 2016 CVO Roadglide does in fact have the new upgraded Screaming Eagle lifters in the engine? I have heard so many conflicting stories.
The official Harley parts catalog lists the number for the SE High Capacity lifters as standard equipment. There is no guarantee unfortunately that the folks assembling your particular engine installed those lifters, but the odds are heavily in favor of your engine having the High Capacity lifters. Now to the more important part; you cannot assume having those lifters somehow makes your engine immune to the widespread lifter roller failures on CVO 110 engines. The failures have much more to do with the cams and the heavy valves along with the valve springs. No matter what lifters you install, if you keep the stock cams and valve train you need to plan on doing regular scheduled lifter replacements. Some people around here change lifters at 5k, 10k, 15k or 20k miles. There is no absolute number of miles recommended, but I recently saw a note in a Harley listing for a performance upgrade package that actually did recommend changing the lifters at 7500 mile intervals when using that particular kit. It was actually the first time I've ever seen them acknowledge the problem and recommend regular lifter changes.
Jerry
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replace them :2vrolijk_21:
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Could I safety assume that my 2016 CVO Roadglide does in fact have the new upgraded Screaming Eagle lifters in the engine? I have heard so many conflicting stories.
Yes you could probably safely assume that, but either way I wouldn't bet on them to last. I would get them out and look to the aftermarket world for something else. The S&S have a pretty good reputation and so far have treated me well
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Plus 1 on the S & S
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The official Harley parts catalog lists the number for the SE High Capacity lifters as standard equipment. There is no guarantee unfortunately that the folks assembling your particular engine installed those lifters, but the odds are heavily in favor of your engine having the High Capacity lifters. Now to the more important part; you cannot assume having those lifters somehow makes your engine immune to the widespread lifter roller failures on CVO 110 engines. The failures have much more to do with the cams and the heavy valves along with the valve springs. No matter what lifters you install, if you keep the stock cams and valve train you need to plan on doing regular scheduled lifter replacements. Some people around here change lifters at 5k, 10k, 15k or 20k miles. There is no absolute number of miles recommended, but I recently saw a note in a Harley listing for a performance upgrade package that actually did recommend changing the lifters at 7500 mile intervals when using that particular kit. It was actually the first time I've ever seen them acknowledge the problem and recommend regular lifter changes.
Jerry
Jerry,
Yes they snuck this in the 2014 P&A catalog under the SE canshaft section (use SE lifters and replace at 7,500 mikes). As if this somehow justifies the crap design. I was a bit shocked to see this sort of statement myself.
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Could I safety assume that my 2016 CVO Roadglide does in fact have the new upgraded Screaming Eagle lifters in the engine? I have heard so many conflicting stories.
It sure does have the upgraded SE lifters.
They still fail. They did on my 15 CVO Road Glide Ultra. It was catastrophic, my engine had to be replaced. Had 44K miles on the bike, very lucky it was right before the 2 year warranty expired.
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I have S and S premium lifters and adjustable pushrods ready to go in. Going to do it without pulling rocker boxes.
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S&S - Very good
Johnson Hylift - Also very good, (probably the best out of all of them).
Harley lifters - not that great. I'd stay away from them it it were me.
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Could I safety assume that my 2016 CVO Roadglide does in fact have the new upgraded Screaming Eagle lifters in the engine? I have heard so many conflicting stories.
Yes but they are failing the same as the previous versions.
Hylift with axle oiling, slow bleed version is prefered and very affordable.
If it were mine, and as I did on my own personal bike, I would lower the spring pressure with a replacement set of dual springs without flat wire dampers. These motors run fine with premium springs at 140# seat pressure and a spring rate of ~350. Less pressure on the lifters, a good thing. Not the same as beehives as they have higher seat pressures despite a low spring rate. They also are a single spring that in my experience on these motors can fail and cause more collateral damage than a dual spring.
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Lowering the seat pressure and going with a duel spring is not a bad idea. This
has been discussed at length on many forums. There are pros and cons to each,
but a duel spring is generally the way to go on one of these motors.
As far as the roller flaking material off. That's more of a lack of quality and crappy
manufacturing.
There are 1000s of LS Chevy motors running around with similar spring pressures
that don't have these problems.
Use a high quality lifter and most of your issues will be solved.
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Lowering the seat pressure and going with a duel spring is not a bad idea. This
has been discussed at length on many forums. There are pros and cons to each,
but a duel spring is generally the way to go on one of these motors.
As far as the roller flaking material off. That's more of a lack of quality and crappy
manufacturing.
There are 1000s of LS Chevy motors running around with similar spring pressures
that don't have these problems.
Use a high quality lifter and most of your issues will be solved.
Have read over and over the LS lifters are the same size as the lifters in our bikes. Something about the top cap is a little different as far as the oiling hole. With that being said, would you run the LS lifters in a bike after changing out that top cap?
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I would just get some S&S standard lifters and call it good. I've heard of people using Chevy lifters
but I haven't tried it. The oil metering is supposedly different.
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Have read over and over the LS lifters are the same size as the lifters in our bikes. Something about the top cap is a little different as far as the oiling hole. With that being said, would you run the LS lifters in a bike after changing out that top cap?
Yes.
Delphi made the "B" lifters and also the current S&S. I've opened up a GM lifter and mic'd everything. I couldn't identify any differences except for the top cap (pushrod "cup").
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And the Hylift is different for some important reasons.
- It is a "slow bleed" design, less clearance (0.000120", 3ยต) between the plunger and main body
- The plunger is a larger diameter, .655, therefore the oil reservoir is larger
- The Hylift B2313SE has edge orifice oiling to the roller axle bearings
- The OD sizing is controlled very closely and is within a few 10ths of .842
- The oil supply amount to the top duplicates the original "-A" lifter as the origin is the same
If there is no noise the roller is not lofting. Lofting, poor heat treat, and lack of oil to the bearings cause the failures, in my opinion. The cams intensity plays a role.
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Johnsons are better for many reasons, they have tighter tolerances and patented manufacturing techniques that
nobody else can do. (Their booth at PRI is worth checking out if you're into the nitty-gritty details).
Like springs, batteries and most everything, there are only a few companies that actually make them. Most
are simply re-branded versions from one of the big Three. Johnson is top of the line, the rest are pretty
much a distant second.
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I had the Johnson Hylift lifters installed in my 2016 CVO roadglid at 16,000 miles, have 23k on it now, all I can say is that it is now the quietest 110 I have had. This 16 made the most noise out of my past two 110's, mainly after sitting more than a a few days, now it does not matter how long it sits there is no rattle-tick-etc.on start up, idle or running after a 100 or 400 mile day, best $130.00 investment I have made to any of my Harley's.
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A good testimonial there. If it were mine at those miles I would go in for a check-up.
"Johnson is top of the line, the rest are pretty much a distant second."
There is a lot of rebranding, more the reason to deal with a vendor that buys direct from the source. Hylift Johnson has a patented Direct Shot Bearing Oil injection system as an option that separates them from the others. Here is a video of the assembly line in the USA
https://youtu.be/lLx_2UKcjS4
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I had the Johnson Hylift lifters installed in my 2016 CVO roadglid at 16,000 miles, have 23k on it now, all I can say is that it is now the quietest 110 I have had. This 16 made the most noise out of my past two 110's, mainly after sitting more than a a few days, now it does not matter how long it sits there is no rattle-tick-etc.on start up, idle or running after a 100 or 400 mile day, best $130.00 investment I have made to any of my Harley's.
Where did you find the Johnsons for $130.00? The price on their website was well over $300.
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A good testimonial there. If it were mine at those miles I would go in for a check-up.
"Johnson is top of the line, the rest are pretty much a distant second."
There is a lot of rebranding, more the reason to deal with a vendor that buys direct from the source. Hylift Johnson has a patented Direct Shot Bearing Oil injection system as an option that separates them from the others. Here is a video of the assembly line in the USA
https://youtu.be/lLx_2UKcjS4
Interesting setup. A couple of stations look very similar to reloading equipment for ammunition.
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Where did you find the Johnsons for $130.00? The price on their website was well over $300.
www.larrysmotorcyclemachine.com/lifters.html
The B2313SE lifters are $139.00 now, I recall there was a discount thru "HarleyTechTalk" forum.
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I have them in stock.
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www.larrysmotorcyclemachine.com/lifters.html
The B2313SE lifters are $139.00 now, I recall there was a discount thru "HarleyTechTalk" forum.
Each not for a set of 4 !
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Each not for a set of 4 !
Off of their website..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181114/6ce158ef33771441d4f1ac63bc1294bc.jpg)
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
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842SE are the lifters I'm looking at. Is this the price for 1 or 4? $139.00 shows one lifter in the pic.
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That is a set price, at least from me. I am sure Larry is comparable.
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Thanks for the info!
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That is a set price, at least from me. I am sure Larry is comparable.
Yes, the $130.00 was for the set of 4.
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$139 for a set of 4 lifters. Free shipping. Punch in the code at checkout for the discount.
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First thing I did on my 1200 mile deluxe was replaced lifters with johnson ones and get a tune done on it.