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[Rupert]

I just replaced my comp/ rotor chain, clutch basket, and starter.  I posted about it inthis forum. My 08 SERK now is leaking engine oil from the area of the starter, like a 2 oz puddle on the floor after a 50 mile ride.  My indy is shakin his head, this isnt possible yet it is.
My primary is pink, my tranny is red, my engine is brown and the oil thats leaking is brown. Its doesnt seem to be leaking at idle, only when driven. oil was allove the back top of the oil sumpk the swing arm etc. I cleaned it up, rags and two cans of brake cleaner, and  went for  a short ride, came back and  It pools up on the tranny under the  starter and is dripping off of the starter. I can see it on the tranny side of the belt drive pulley and its support webbing. but I cant figure out where it coming from.
I have had the starter off, and I will pull it again, as Im closer ot finding a source, but I cant figureout how engien oil is getting there.
IDK if this is relevent but the bike has leaked oil, up threw the seam at the engine and tranny on the right side since i bought it in Feb,.I took it in under warranty, so its noted. Noted that first they said it was presrvative from the engine ( 6 years old) and th econd time they gave me adumgb looka nd added dye ( all in one was used at the time)
I have this theory that the gasket inside is bad, and the cavity on the primary side is full of oil and either there is a vent or crack between that and the  artea where is leaking and somehow the path of least resistance for the returning oil is out and all over the starter mount area......yeah, I  know crazy but Ive had alot of time to think about this. There are three passages for the oil to go through inthis area ( ALL oil areas are well away from wher its coming out) .
Well two for oil one is  vent.
Suction for the oil pump. shouldnt be that, no Presure on suction side of pump.
The oil return flow, which has flow but I would think lmited if any pressure as presure is caused by resistance to flow . the return simply dumps int the sump onto the baffles.
the third is the vent line.
still with me?

Anyone got any ideas?

Id like to remove the starter, jump the hot push start the bike.  Mayeb then I can find a source. Id have to plug the starter hole otherwise Il have primary fluid and engine oil al ove the..well probably the exhaust ... sounds like fun

[hd-dude]

If it's leaking out of the  starter then it's primary fluid. It can get through the bearing seals in the starter clutch and drain out of the starter onto the top of the tranny case. I've seen this on more than one occasion.

[Rupert]

If it's leaking out of the  starter then it's primary fluid. It can get through the bearing seals in the starter clutch and drain out of the starter onto the top of the tranny case. I've seen this on more than one occasion.

It should be  primary fluid but its not. Its engine oil. As I stated above, my primary fluid is pink, my tranny fluid is red. Only my engine oil is brown. The fluid leaking is brown.  It makes no sense to me either, but thisis what its doing.
Last night I cleaned up all theb oil, every drop, than ran the bike on my lift, with the back tire off of the ground, for about ten minutes.
The back tire rotated , up to 5 mph indicated on speedo.  steady speed for about 5 min then it slowed to near a stop , it cycled faster and slowere I could hear some noise cycling in the gearbox area. This is probably unrelated to the leak.

When I shut it down I could see a film of oil covering the webbing suorts on the tranny side of the belt drive pulley.  Ill see what if anymore leaks during the day.  Next I plan on a short drive on my street, then check as it leaks more whan I ride it (it also oporates longer so who knows) I think the gearbox / drive puley spinning makes it leak more. Im trying to find a source.
Id be real happy if the oil changed color as all evidence sofar points to a tranny output shaft seal. 
I did swap from 3/1 to redshift 1200  miles ago.

I seroiusly welcome any adeas.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I agree with all of you, it should not be happening as the only opening is for primary fluid, not engine oil.

But, what if the pink oil is leaking through the starter end and mixing with debris, dirt, grease etc and by the time it hits the floor it's brown from mixing with the grit etc.

You can buy oil dye and put that in the primary and run till it leaks, then use a black light to see if the dye is in the oil.  If it shows up with the dye, you know for sure.  Or if you're concerned about putting oil dye in the primary, put it in the engine oil and then check that way.  Either way you can tell for sure "what" oil it is.

If your parts store doesn't know about the oil, go to a GM dealership and ask them for some.  I'm sure by now that all dealerships use dye, but when I was a Chevy / Pontiac service manager, it was just new technology and we used it a lot to determine what or where the fluid is or comes from.

Good luck.

[grc]

Yup, what Dan said.  There are easier ways to diagnose these kinds of problems, like the dye and blacklight deal.

If you do the dye test and confirm you really are seeing motor oil running down from under the starter, and there is no indication the motor oil is running down from someplace higher up like a base gasket, it might be time to start doing limited disassembly while looking for signs of the dye where it shouldn't be. 

Jerry

[Rupert]

Thanks Guys. seriuosly. I, and My indy,  are baffled. I have an idea that the three hole gasket in between the  engine and tranny which is and has been seeping fluid at the top and was pointed out to the stealership 2x may be the culprit. But  its just seeping. I invision ( and having looked in the parts book) the cavity on the primary side where the gasket allowing leakage to be filed with engine oil and somehow leaking into the area of the belt drive gear.
when all the logical has been eliminated, then only the illoigical remains.....or some crap like that..

Yes some of the oil has some grit in it, but not anymore, I am actaully getting clean brown oil.

I appreciatte the dye idea, I gonna put it in my tranny, cause it appeas to be leaking just ike an output shaft seal would leak, all around the webbing from behind the gear. It may be dripping down onto the top of the output shaft webbing support, thats about the only area I cant see.

really getting to know the underside of the bike....which is not one of my goals

Thanks again


 

[Dan_Lockwood]

Good luck and share what you find out.

[twinotter]

  Is it remotely possible that the engine oil is coming from a leaking head gasket or rocker cover on the rear cylinder??  I had one spring a leak and put oil all over the tranny cover and under the starter.
Just wondering!!  twin otter

[Rupert]

  Is it remotely possible that the engine oil is coming from a leaking head gasket or rocker cover on the rear cylinder??  I had one spring a leak and put oil all over the tranny cover and under the starter.
Just wondering!!  twin otter

Nope,  no leak there. thanks though.
I only have some seepage coming from the seam between the engine and tranny on the top, right side. I have alot more oil leaking under the bike, and  its coming from the  pulley drive gear area, on the tranny side. I added dye to the engine oil last night, but no time ot run it. Im gonna take her for aspin tonight and see if the dye is present in the oil.
My trannyoil is still red, so I dont thnk the engein oil is getting mixed with the tranny fluid.

[Rupert]

I agree with all of you, it should not be happening as the only opening is for primary fluid, not engine oil.

But, what if the pink oil is leaking through the starter end and mixing with debris, dirt, grease etc and by the time it hits the floor it's brown from mixing with the grit etc.

You can buy oil dye and put that in the primary and run till it leaks, then use a black light to see if the dye is in the oil.  If it shows up with the dye, you know for sure.  Or if you're concerned about putting oil dye in the primary, put it in the engine oil and then check that way.  Either way you can tell for sure "what" oil it is.

If your parts store doesn't know about the oil, go to a GM dealership and ask them for some.  I'm sure by now that all dealerships use dye, but when I was a Chevy / Pontiac service manager, it was just new technology and we used it a lot to determine what or where the fluid is or comes from.

Good luck.

If it's leaking out of the  starter then it's primary fluid. It can get through the bearing seals in the starter clutch and drain out of the starter onto the top of the tranny case. I've seen this on more than one occasion.

Thanks guys, the word grit helped me figure this out:
I added dye to the engine sump.

The brown oil I wiped up on top of the tranny always had grit at the bottom, at frst I assumed it was dirt, but after cleaning and spraying everything with brake cleaner, It still had grit the next time.
what I did is run the bike and then level it on my MC jack, then look for  asource of oil. Well actually it sits with the front tire down 2 deg or so, and more inportantly it leans to the right 2-3 deg, OPPOSITTE of how it sits on the kick stand. I rode last night 40+ miles, and then leveled it. I saw gritty oil under the starter on the side oppisite the primary. and around the starter mounting area. I determined the starter motor body was not wet, only on the tail end. 5 min after shutting the engine
down oil appeared were I  had wiped it up. WTF??? So I crammed a mirror in there, and saw gray/ gritty oil dripping out of the weephole.
So It seems oil is going threw the starter, and it has to be primary fluid, which somehow is changing color.....as it passes threw the starter. PFM I guesss....LOL
The starter is the last thing that was touched, that and the clutch basket. I'm gonna ride it all weekend  and drop it of monday, My indy will figure ot which seal is bad. Funny I had the starter removed and checked at a prestigous shop, as it had a few kickbacks and hard starts.   Came back all good..
So how can it be leaking oil threw it.
Another starter for the junk pile, I guess. I will be putting  a stock harley starter on it and adding  a chrome cover if I feel the need to.

I'll post up when the exact cause is found.

 

[Rupert]

If it's leaking out of the  starter then it's primary fluid. It can get through the bearing seals in the starter clutch and drain out of the starter onto the top of the tranny case. I've seen this on more than one occasion.

THANK _ YOU HD DUDE!

I replaced the starter with a stock HD starter and all is well, Starts much smoother, quieter, and no kickback. 
I still cant understand why the fluid changed color from pink to brown.
The aftermarcket chrome hi tq starter is going back to the Manufacture for warranty. I hope to get my money back.

[hd-dude]

THANK _ YOU HD DUDE!

I replaced the starter with a stock HD starter and all is well, Starts much smoother, quieter, and no kickback. 
I still cant understand why the fluid changed color from pink to brown.
The aftermarcket chrome hi tq starter is going back to the Manufacture for warranty. I hope to get my money back.