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[WildClyde]

“This will go over like a Vespa at Sturgis,” Mr. Sasse said. “The problem isn’t that Harley is unpatriotic — it’s that tariffs are stupid.”

Vespa's at Sturgis? 

I agree with Ben: tariffs are stupid!

[Ironhorse]

In the end, it is simply greed that drives management, "shareholders", and labor.  There is simply no loyalty between any of them and it is all about what they can get.  It has been sad to see the decline of the USA over the years as the focus has shifted to "its all about me" and what can I get attitude.

Ah, the deeper issue. There are those who say trade wars are good, a win-win for all. It makes money for the big companies, they get tax breaks, and their wealth and earnings will trickle down to the rest of us. Perhaps those who lose jobs just need to wait longer for some of the money to trickle down to them.

I could be wrong, but that’s how it works, right?

[Para Bellum]

But this is all different. Now it's not just Harley vs Honda, and Vega vs Corolla, it's tariffs on metal and everything else. Add to that cheap overseas labor and it's only a matter of time till American Made is in name only.

AMINO (uh-MEE-no):  American Made In Name Only.

Isn't that the same as "Assembled in U.S.A.", like HDs are now?   

[bbrown]

Come on guys it’s a global economy.    Honda, Toyota, Foxcom and others did not move production to the U S so they could say built in America....they did so they would not have to pay the high cost of transportation and other fees and tariffs..like port of entry fees .unloading tariffs and surcharges thereby keeping there prices competitive with USA automakers.

When that happened not much was said cause it was jobs.  Now it’s the other way around.  If you add another $2200 to the price of a bike in Europe , Harley would never be close to winning customers and selling the 60,000 units they have a market for there.  As a stockholder (albeit small) I applaud the move.  I doubt bikes for the American market will be built there for the reasons mentioned above.

I am a 4 generation Wisconsin Resident and do worry about the people that will be affected.  Time will tell.  Thank goodness there will be jobs at the new Foxcom plant

[mark]

I belonged to the IBEW at one time.  I simply don't agree with how they (unions) operate.  And I don't care how European Labor law works.  That is a European problem and not an American problem.

In the end, it is simply greed that drives management, "shareholders", and labor.  There is simply no loyalty between any of them and it is all about what they can get.  It has been sad to see the decline of the USA over the years as the focus has shifted to "its all about me" and what can I get attitude.

 

So greed drives management...but not the workers, unions, etc.?  I think what you are describing as greed is actually capitalism and the free market at work.  The number one concern for a publicly owned company is the shareholder, not the worker.  Companies do not exist to create jobs  - they exist to provide profit for the owners.  No one with an idea for a new company ever starts by thinking how they can create a bunch of jobs.         

[skratch]

The MoCo and Polaris are about the closest companies, vehicle wise, that has most of their manufacturing capabilities in the US with the exception of some Polaris off-road vehicles that are made in Mexico using made in the US motors/drivetrains and the MoCo making parts and bikes in Brazil, Thailand, etc but the main brunt of the fleet is still in Milwaukee and York.   Victory and Indian are fully made in the US.  The MoCo is looking to move more manufacturing offshore but I'm not sure Polaris is ready for that....yet.

are you saying that the electronics on an indian are made here in the us?  suspension?  brakes?  or am I misunderstanding your use of 'fully made in us'?

[Twolanerider]

Polaris now speaking of moving "some" production to a facility in Poland as a result of the tariff battle.  And what economists and historians said Mercantilism was dead... ?   


https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2018/06/26/polaris-motorcycles-may-follow-harley-davidson-out.html

[J.D.]

Well that sorta blows a big hole in my theory LOL. 

[Twolanerider]

Well that sorta blows a big hole in my theory LOL. 

At least Polaris already has a European production facility.  According the article the site in Poland currently builds ATVs. 

It's an expensive undertaking to retool as would be required here.  Not a quick task either.  Spidey senses feel like a lot of this is more warning than intent; at least in the near term.  If one has facilities to produce more cheaply within another market (especially if doing so for that market) it only makes sense to do so though.

[grc]

The whole "Global Economy and Free Trade" thing was all about allowing corporations to follow the rainbow to the lowest cost and thus highest profits.  It wasn't about fairness to workers or consumers for that matter, it was strictly about hooray for the big guys and the big investors.  The Me generation meets the "Greed is Good" crowd, if you know what I mean.  It's sad, but as I said way back in the early 90's to my coworkers, this approach does nothing less than force labor to compete with the lowest paid members of the third world, until everything settles out with the economy looking a lot like it did over a hundred years ago.  Rich folks, and poor folks.  It's already becoming evident in the statistics that show the middle class is shrinking fairly rapidly.  The only difference from the bad old days is that in our modern world there are government programs that attempt to provide a cushion for the poor.  There are countries in Europe and Scandinavia that are already pushing the idea of a guaranteed minimum annual income for each person in the country, whether they work or not.  I can't see that working in this country, mostly because the corporations and the wealthy would refuse to pay the higher taxes necessary to pay for such a program. 

I'm glad I'm a retired old fart who doesn't have to worry about things like salaries and jobs any more.  But I am concerned about the younger generations going forward, and would not want to be in their shoes.

Jerry

[ultrarider123]

are you saying that the electronics on an indian are made here in the us?  suspension?  brakes?  or am I misunderstanding your use of 'fully made in us'?

I was talking forest, not the trees.

Overall made in U.S., not specific components.

[FLSTFI Dave]

All most all the Foreign car companies are building cars in the South, non union States.  Union is only part of that equation.  Cost is another.

When I retired from the USN in 2001, Denso Manufacturing offered me a Job as a Maintenance team leader.  I was given my Choice of three Plants.  Battle Creek MI, my home town.  Maryville TN and Athens TN.  Starting salary in Battle Creek was 65,000 a year, in TN either plant was 55,000 a year. I chose TN.

Why, it was lots less money.  Housing was way less in TN because land or property was way less.  Tax was way less, insurance was way less, vehicle registration was way less.  So not only was it cheeper for me to live in TN.  It was cheeper for Denso to buy the land, to build the building, to pay the people, to pay their insurance, to register their vehicles and the list goes on.

Example, my dad had a 01 Crew Cab dually, I had the exact same truck but different color.  His tag was 225 a year and 1000 a year insurance.  My tag was 24 a year and 450 a year of insurance.  I bought a one acre lake lot on the TN river for 60K.  That year my Uncle sold his 120 by 150 lake lot in my home town for 750,000. 

I could have a better standard of living earning 10K less than in MI. 

Our wages were very comparable to union plants in the area, same with the plants in MI. 

GM came to visit us.  The wanted to know how we could make spark plugs, paint AC/Delco on them, and sell them to GM for less than they could make them for.  Our three plug lines had only 2 multi craft maintenance guys on each shift and 3 production workers.  GM had an Electrician, a machinist, a mechanic, an instrument tech, a software tech, a welder, a pneumatic tech, and a Hydraulic tech.  So 6 more maintenance people per shift.  They had 14 production workers for our 3.   All that extra labor adds up fast, but union rules, the electrician only does electrical an so on.  Union line worker cant take out the trash and so on.

Or workers actually made more than the Union as no union dues.  Same vacation, sick leave and health benefits.

I'm not Anti union as all 4 of my grandparents were union, most my cousins are union, my brother is  Union steward. 

[smkymtnboy]

well OCC paul and paul jr. build there bikes in usa and are back on prime time TV or is that another story?

[iski]

well OCC paul and paul jr. build there bikes in usa and are back on prime time TV or is that another story?

It's a story about money & those who love money and hope to get more money to love.

[Twolanerider]

well OCC paul and paul jr. build there bikes in usa and are back on prime time TV or is that another story?

Those bozos aren't even a story.