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CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: IndySE on December 03, 2002, 10:40:16 PM
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I'd like my SE to be a bit louder and have a lower tone. Considered the White Brothers pipes because they can be "tuned".
Noticed others have installed the Vance & Hiens slip-ons. My question is did you have any issues with the ECM? I'd rather not get a different chip or lose the FLHRSEI uniqueness in their programming. Did you have to get a Power Commander? I'd also would rather not do that either.
What has been your experience?
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(http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/infinite/www.harley-davidson.com/media/images/productphotos/PNA/32672_99_L_b993.jpg)
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=2889611&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=4710055&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=4710055&bmUID=1039011340736
this is the SE chip people talk about the dealer downloads the code into the the bike. i did this in conjuction with the V&H slip-ons and the SE high flow air kit
(http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/infinite/www.harley-davidson.com/media/images/productphotos/PNA/29489_99B_L_bf17.jpg)
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=82663&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=4710055&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=4710055&bmUID=1039011701954
(http://www.vanceandhines.com/media/Hbasics.gif)
http://www.vanceandhines.com/pages/HDresser.html
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those V & H pipes look fantastic----I'm going to wait to hear my 103" before changing, but if they sound half as good as they look...
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[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Naitram thank for the Chip
I just put
SE muffler
SE high flow kit
SE clutch kit
samson pipe
On my 02 FLHRSEI
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Hi! New to group.
I have the purple '02.
A question. I am rather short legged and want to lower the bike an inch or so. I am under the impression that the bike already has the low profile shocks, and so I'm considering a lowering kit. Anyone have any experience/advice here?
Thanks,
Benny
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seat height is 26.5in stock roadking for 03 is 27.3in i dont know if a lowering kit will help you much
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I have a 03 S.E.
I have the S.E. air cleaner kit.
Hooker slipons
The hookers are loud but perform great.
I have not used any EFI Kit yet.
I don't think I'll need one.
RTD
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[smiley=1syellow1.gif]
Bike goes into the shop tomorrow. (Figures first day in the 50's and away it goes).
Changes to be made include:
SE Pipes
SE High Flow Air Cleaner
EFI Race Tuners Kit
Harley's New 251 Cam
Going to have it Dyno'd when I'm finished, I will notify you guys of the results.
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[smiley=1syellow1.gif]
Bike goes into the shop tomorrow.
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Just picked up the bike. The Harley dealer recommended not putting the cam in unless I was going to do heads as well, so I opted to hold off on that for now.
Before the other changes (bike already had SE pipes on it) it was 57HP and 84 ft. pounds torque.
After changes I am getting 85HP and 100 ft. pounds of torque. Definitely a nice change! ;D
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Only change has been the addition of SE air cleaner and 32846-02A re-flash. Not sure if I needed the re-flash but the dealer recommended it. I'm also thinking about Race Tuner software but waiting to see some dyno tuned results before spending the money.
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ECM calibration part number for 03's 32926-03
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Well my bike is back after a major up-grade:
1) Zippers Air Cleaned
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Does anybody have any results info on streetable mods to the '03 stroker motor other than the H-D factory results which are free flow air-cleaner(K&N), S.E. exhaust, ECM. I have not been successful in obtaining these results for this engine. Thanks.
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Andyatlas - wow - sounds like a great performance boost. The feel of the power boost and the sound enhancements. Are both:
Barely noticable?
noticable?
very noticable?
awsome?
More impressed with sound or power? I definately need to do something about sound - and power is always (especially low end torque) on the list.
The SE comes with an upgraded CAM - were you interested in a more radical CAM for performance or sound at idle? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Indy,
The sound difference is noticeable at idle, a little deeper, but very noticeable when you get on the pipe. I really like it that way, so the bike is somewhat quite when gently cruising, but has a really nice sound when you get on it. If you want it louder at idle, I would go with a little more open pipe.
The power on the other hand is very noticeable. It is producing the 100 ft of torque at about 2500 rpm. It is great on the torque end!! I was looking to change cams so I could get the hp up a little more. My last bike was 105hp, and it was awewome to crackt he throttle on the open road and let her rip! to go up to the 251 cam I want to put in the bike, my dealer says I really should put heads on as well. The upgraded cam on the SE is the 203. Without heads I could only go to the 211 which wouldn't be much of a difference for the cost.
Therfore...I think next spring I am going with the CNC Ported HTCC heads. That would allow me to go all the way up to Harley's 260 cam, although I think I am going to stick with the 251. From what I understand the 260 cam is all high end hp and not low end torque the 251 is a good mix of both from what the dealer can tell from the few they have put on this spring, since HD came out with that cam.
I am/would be changing the cam purely for performance reasons, although that loping sound at idle is a great bonus. My last bike was a Deuce upgraded to 95 cu. in with the 257 cam, HD's regular performance heads and Python pipes. The sound at idle was simply awesome, but when you opened it up it was a bit loud.
So hopefully the combination I'm trying to put together this time will give me all the performance I'm looking for with a good, yet tolerable sound level.
Andy
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Take a close look at these heads! Saw a pair last week that looked porous. If you find a good set are you going to utilize the intake that H-D has matched for these heads?
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I have had some more work done on my 03 S.E.
I have hooker slipons
Open up the air cleaner with the EFI kit.
Now I have downloaded the Harley computer chip
and had a Dynorun.
We did a Dynorun before the download and after.
H.P. went from 86.8 to 91.8
Torque went from 96.7 to 100.0 at hte rear wheel.
And my milage is now up to 42 mpg
The bike is running great and I'm very happy.
RTd
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Ok - I'm still looking for a bike that has the sound I'm looking for. I'm told that I may be looking for a Sampson pipe - fairly open - metal inside without any fiberglass to muffle the sound. Yes I'd like louder. I want to hear my machine with I'm in a tunnel or running against a wall or gardrail. I want to hear when I crack it open. I run with a lot of softtail folks and theyare loud and sound great. With dual pipe - the way a touring bike is set up - I'm lower (which is cool) but I really can't hear my bike when I run with anyone else. This is not cool. So I'm currently looking for a bike that is running Sampson pipes with a ECM Power Commander. I'm told on this point that I can put this in without overwriting the Harley ECM and it's unique program.
Any words of wisdom? Everyone wants to make their ride to be their dream bike. I love the look I've got going. Power is fine - more is always bette - but for me the sound needs to be LOUDER! Hey - just thinking about safety [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
Still slapping on chrome nik-naks - tweeking in the perfect look without going overboard! Had a great ride last week and got my first sun burn... FACE, STOMACH AND BACK - - - I LOVE IT!!!!!
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I have the Samson slip-ons. They sound great. The mechanic tells me it adds 5 - 6 HP. Did not need a new chip, (at least they didn't charge me for one). I have met 3 or 4 other guys with SE Kings. They have all commented positively on the pipes.
Be well.
Benny.
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Hey Benny - which pipes did you go with from Sampson? Did you install them yourself? Looking at ovals and there are still many options here.
Did you do anything with your air intake? Or just pipes.
Thanks for input.
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Remember a couple of cardinal rules:
Engine hop-ups w/o exhaust changes often lead to a quieter bike. Not a bad thing....I run a Thunderheader and its a little loud for my taste, but the performance is inline with my beliefs.
You just can't compare your local dyno charts. Often the techs will run the dyno in 5th gear to get higher numbers, or they will use very little compensation for barometer/temp/fuel, or the dyna150 and the Sun and Sea don't measure the same....If all the dyno techs ran the exact same dyno with the exact same spec we could compare. What is important is knowing we're going in the correct direction and dyno results before and after show this.
I ride a '99 Road King with many mods (not an SE, but the paint is similar to the '00 SE RG) with a 95" kit. I have dyno results that range from a low of 94hp and 106 ftlb to 105hp and 112 ftlb. It all matters on the dyno (NOTE: dyno shootout dynos are really calibrated to get high numbers.).
"Never give up, never surrender" Tim Allen - Galaxy Quest
[smiley=biggthumpup.gif]
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it definatley looks like the screamin' eagle road glide paint from a distance :)
welcome to the site
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Thanks, it was the intent to get people to ask questions, so it has a few details that are different. The white stripe is pinstriped and shadowed with an airbrush. The black below the white stripe is ghost checkered, and the tank emblem is a cartoonized aluminum leaf version of the 1967 (my birth year) set under the clear coat. Its fun to ride and people really freakout about its looks and incredible performance (best 1/4 et is 12.36).
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How about some dyno posts. This is my worst one and the only one I trust.
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I have a question for others that own the FLHRSEI/95 - 2002 bike. I was under the impression that the Stage II Big Bore kit came with the hi flow screaming eagle air kit. It doesn't seem to be so...??
I have gotten new pipes - now finally sounds like a Harley. I choose the Vance & Hines 2-into-1 ProSeries pipes. Sounds Great.
I did have dyno runs made befoe & after and will share when I have more time to scan them. Big bang in torque and hp.
Finally going to hit 70 degrees tomorrow and no rain.. HEY [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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I have a question for others that own the FLHRSEI/95 - 2002 bike.
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I have very good MAP data and every day I gather moor and send it off to my mechanic for his evaluation.
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I have a 03 S.E.
I have the S.E. air cleaner kit.
Hooker slipons
The hookers are loud but perform great.
I have not used any EFI Kit yet.
I don't think I'll need one.
RTD
Your bike is running lean.
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Man I can't tell you guys how much MORE fun it is to ride when you can hear you machine!! 8) I put the Vance & Hines 2-1 Pro Series pipes with NO breather kit or ECM Chip nothing and I believe I got the BIGGEST bang for the buck in terms of HP and Torque one could buy! It's like a completely different bike - runs much better!
By the way Naitram - I saw the pair of Kuryaken gas cap and fuel/voltage gage on a bike the other day and this looks like a very cool option. Saving my coins! Always something.
[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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I have a question, for anyone to answer. If I do the air cleaner, and pipes, and am thinking about going with the power commander, or the S/E program, will I still need to have the upgrade chip installed? I know that if I do the upgrades, and was not going to install the P/C or the S/E, I would need to install the chip. Does anyone know?
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Using either the PC or the Race Tuner DOES NOT require a chip upgrade.
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Ask goldiron3... he set up flhrsei-2_for_sale...
He had the info. loaded into the bike, had the air flow and pipes added, meets all 50 states limits.
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The chip upgrade allows for more air through engine, more torque in certain situations...as you mentioned? And, the chip upgrade, with the air flow, pipes redone, is covered by warranty - but - depending upon the pipes put on, too, right? So, what pipes were put on "the bike", Mike?
The p.c. and the race tuner don't need the chip upgrade? This won't be covered by warranty - what is it about the race tuner that will take away from the warranty? Work on heads? Changing out parameters of original design?
You have all the answers, Mike...
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Have the SE Breather, Rinehart Duals, HD Race Tuner Kit... Warranty just fine... 7 years and NOT null. Thought you might want a different experience than posted earlier. Thanks.
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I spent about four hours today running the control wires inside the handlebars. I hadn't ever done this to any bike I've owned before, because it never seemed worth the trouble. I thought this ride deserved it....looks great.
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The Power Commander or the HD Race Tuner does not void the warranty unless the damage (problem) is/was directly related to the PC or the HD RT (see the Magnusen Moss Warranty Act).
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If you travel away from your home town and have a problem, and if the HD knows you need work and can't get home without it, they may deny your warranty if you have either the RT kit or the PC installed. This is just their way of saying 'Thank you for your paying business'. It IS at the discretion of individual dealers so you know they want to make the bigger "cash" buck if they can. There is no sentiment in business. Doesn't it suck that HD can't have a consistent policy across dealerships? First they suck you in by telling you they want you to be happy with aftermarket performance addons (and by the way "EVERYBODY" does it), then they throw you out on the road to be screwed by their colleagues! Nice business, huh?
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John the failure/damage has to be directly attributed to the modification part in order for the warranty to be void. It's not discreationary.....it's federal law that applys to all motor vehicles.
HD does not govern or manage the franchise dealerships, they are just franchises. They also do not have the power or authority to overide the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. All consumers in America that drive a motor vehicle should educate theirself to this act.
Dealerships attitude (policy?) is set by the owner or the manager of the shop. They can claim that it (the failure or damage) was directly due to a modification that you've made and make a decision based on their "opnion". You can take a stand on it and contest it by taking it to another dealership or shop and get it documented that what they thought caused the damage, had no direct relation to the damage. Or, you can pay the same dealership to go ahead and do the work and then file a claim to recover your expenses.
I first saw this used with our trucks (the Harley truck that is Supercharged and then modified, even more) Ford denied a claim on a rod being thrown in a motor that was heavily modded. The guy picked his truck and motor up, took it to an independent shop and the disassembled the motor and showed where the nuts were not torqued and that was what caused the rod to be thrown. He had his attorney draft the letter ($50 which he also collected from Ford) and they put a new motor in his truck and paid the bill at the independent shop.
Fast forward to this past summer a partner of mine took his bike to a popular dealership right outside of Sacramento. Simular situation, they denied the warranty claim and said the problem caused further insuing damage that also would not be covered. He took it to another dealership and they said "it's covered, non of your mods have any effect on the damaged area". They still refused to pay or make it right in any way. He filed a claim under the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act with the Beareu of Automotive Repair (BAR) here in Sacramento. They investigated and ruled in his favor. He got back the money that the first dealership had charged him to diagnose plus the money to repair all the problems that were generated from the original problem, at the second shop.
So, you might have to fight for your rights but you should always make and educated decision by knowing what they are.
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Let me see if I can attach it here for all to view...............
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/ftc/warranties/undermag.htm
The MMWA does not only apply to motor vehicles, it applys to anything with a warranty. I was told that it was generated in the motor vehicle industry (if you don't use our brand of XXXXXXX it will void your warranty). They can no longer tell you that you have to use their brand of oil, for instance. You can use any brand, as long as it meets the specifications set forth by the manufacterur. Generally speaking, all motor oils manufactured for gas burning cars meet the same specifications.
The same applys to a ECM or any other part on your bike.
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As the HD icon states on any of their product literature...
"Harley-Davidson has the engineering expertise, sophisticated dyno lab, and complete testing facilities to provide racing enthusiasts with a line of performance products designed to produce good, solid, reliable horsepower in their V-Twin engines and exceptional performance on the race track. Engine related performance parts are intended for the Experienced Rider only.
WARNING
Installation of Screamin' Eagle Products, and similar products from other manufacturers, except some street legal offerings installed by authorized Harley dealers, may affect your H-D limited vehicle warranty. See your dealer for more information."
So... Does the "may" mean that they realize that they can't declare a warranty void? What does their use of the word "affect" really mean. It sounds like HD doesn't agree with the law. I'm sure you know a lot about the law but many of my riding friends have been abandoned by HD in the desert because they had a crossed-flag icon part on their ride. It apparently didn't help them to know the law at the time (they do). You are proabably right about owner rights but does this keep HD dealers from charging for what should be warranty work? Compare this to a business like Sears who replaced my chain saw 3 times and never did they even ask if I was running their two-stroke oil or stock (recommended) spark plug. They just replaced it. I think HD has some eithical issues to review and make a stronger message to their franchises that attempt to use the warranty issue as a sales opportunity. Just my experience... law or no law. Thanks for the vent opportunity.
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John I'd just suggest that those people would get further if they filed a claim under the MMWA. And even then, they're not going to be able to collect on every claim.
But HD (and the individual dealers) like Ford or any other manufacturer would be a lot less quick to deny warranty issues if they thought they might have to go to court on it.
Again, out here in Calif. (thousands of riders) I've never heard of a warranty claim being denied due to a PC or an HDRT.
The 103" motor in our bikes is warrantied from the factory but if you modify your 88" with the 103" parts it "may" void the warranty. I'd say to that, that if I built an 88" motor into a 103" and HD denied me warranty work because of it, then we'd be in court. Regardless of what their paperwork says, the MMWA is not negotiable.
In other words, those parts are under warranty if we do the work......if we put it together and in the bike, but not if some other qualified mechanic does.
It may be an issue that I'm willing to push the envelope just a little further than the next guy is however, it has never been an issue for me. And I have been in a few of those little country town dealerships in places like Missouri, Ariz, Montanna, etc. and it's just never been an issue due to the high flow air cleaner, Power Commander or Thunderheader.
Our dealership Service Manager says to me "how is another dealership going to prove that the failure was due to the PC or the HDRT?" Exactly my thoughts. So the question one would have to ask theirself is "am I going to lay down for this.....or am I willing to put the time and energy into fighting for my rights?"
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If you travel away from your home town and have a problem, and if the HD knows you need work and can't get home without it, they may deny your warranty if you have either the RT kit or the PC installed.
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i agree 100% on your quote on dec.27 2003 about harley's policy on there after market parts, they'll get your cash one way or another
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The dealerships are privately owned franchises and the policy is set by the owners and management of each dealership.
I've had a Race Tuner or Power Commander on my bikes for more than a few years (since Power Commander II came out) and I've had warranty work done at various dealerships here in northern California and the RT or PC never became an issue. I've also had warranty work done in Springfield, Mossouri and up in Washington state (don't remember the dealership......too many weeks on the road at that point).
On the flip side, I've heard of some of the mom and pop type dealerships out in the middle of no where that make that kind of thing an issue.
The Magnusson Moss Warranty Act (I've posted it elsewhere on this site) states that the modicification has to be directly related to the failure or damage in order for the warranty to be voided. You can have a dealership claim that it's related and your only recourse may be to pay now, then file civil action against that dealership. If that happens......all the dealerships would quit playing games with this issue and get right about it. Just my .02 worth guys.