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CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: Twolanerider on March 18, 2023, 08:36:18 PM
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Short story is a local acquaintance called early this morning. 2005 bike wouldn't start and needed a hand. We relatively quickly assumed bike had a bad TSSM. Guy's place is a mile from my house and we're both a half hour from the dealership. I've got one (ok, three) in my pile of spares so we plug one in to his bike, do the pairing dance (a pain in the ass), and his bike is running again. All should be good.
Then I learned something that left me thinking "oh man, it's Harley at it again...."
Mother Harley has made the pre-2007 TSM and TSSMs obsolete. Something absolutely necessary to make the bikes go and without an aftermarket option. Part is now obsolete.
68920-00x or 68920-01x is the TSM version
68922-00x is the TSSM version
68924-00x is the international TSSM version (and I've seen these on domestic bikes).
I've got a few parts that are field serviceable, small or relatively small, or that I know a dealership will never have, that I keep stuck in the bottom the saddlebags in case I break down on a road trip somewhere. Since the bike is dead without the TSSM and Harley can't supply it I'm adding that to the parts stash in the bikes. Fortunately I had the spares I did but I did just snag what would now be a redundant spare on eBay for $80. Saw many others listed for a lot more than that. Don't know what they're actually selling for but the listing prices were regularly a lot higher.
Ok, that's all I got.
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Hey Don,
You're saying if the tssm fails there's no way of starting the bike?
This is what can leave you stranded and you should carry
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Hey Don,
You're saying if the tssm fails there's no way of starting the bike?
This is what can leave you stranded and you should carry
Yeah Pete the TSSM is the security module. So if it should fail you can be dead in the water. The module in your picture is correct for bikes starting with the 2007 model. That vintage is not (at least not yet) obsolete from the manufacturer and is used from 2007 through (I think this is right) 2013. 2006 and prior used a module that is identically externally but has a part number ending in -00 with -00D being the latest revision (with all revisions interchangeable).
If a TSSM (turn signal AND security module) fails you can also replace with it just a TSM (turn signal module). For the older bikes the TSM are also now obsolete from Mother Harley but it's at least another option on the used/eBay market that might even be more plentiful and, hey, any port in a storm. Pairing ANY replacement TSM or TSSM at home on your own is a tedious pain in the ass task. But it can be done (and keep the battery on a tender while doing it). It was, or at least used to be, easy for a dealership using their Digital Technician. So many of the shops do their best to avoid old bikes that who knows what they'd actually do for you though.
You wouldn't need to replace the fob when replacing the TSSM. Programming a fob to any TSSM is an easy chore you do standing beside the bike even while scratching your special places.
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Cheers for the info :2vrolijk_21:
Think I may get one .
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We use a guy that repaires instrument clusters, I am going to contact him about testing and repair, if he wants to give it a try does anyone want to provide a known good unit and a bad so he can do side by side comparison?
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We use a guy that repaires instrument clusters, I am going to contact him about testing and repair, if he wants to give it a try does anyone want to provide a known good unit and a bad so he can do side by side comparison?
These things are made by Delphi so I'm a little surprised there's not an aftermarket as there is for so much stuff on the automotive side of the street. Perhaps just not the numbers necessary to justify the effort.
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There is probably one component inside that fails and is common to all that fail .....has anyone had a look at the guts of one that has failed?
Maybe that company that 'fixes' the older touring radios could 'fix' failed TSSMs with an upgraded component?
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There appears to be an aftermarket replacement for the older bikes. Dennis Kirk and J & P Cycles has them. Has anyone tried one of these?
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There appears to be an aftermarket replacement for the older bikes. Dennis Kirk and J & P Cycles has them. Has anyone tried one of these?
Would love to see the link to what you found. Just checked at Kirk searching by a 2005 FLHTCSE2 (since it came with a TSSM stock) and searched by "alarm," "TSSM," "security," "turn signal module," the actual part number, and a couple of other options that came to mind. Didn't find the part.
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IF anyone needs them, I have 2 key FOBS for 00-06 bikes.
1 used and 1 NIB. P/N 68926-00
Reasonable Offers
Regards
Jerry
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Now that I look at it a little more closely this may not be a direct replacement?
https://www.jpcycles.com/product/badlands-illuminator-run-brake-turn-signal-module-for-harley-1997-2013?rrec=true&sku_id=1001643
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Now that I look at it a little more closely this may not be a direct replacement?
https://www.jpcycles.com/product/badlands-illuminator-run-brake-turn-signal-module-for-harley-1997-2013?rrec=true&sku_id=1001643
Nope, that's just one of the old Illuminator modules that allow you run LED bulbs without the "fast blink" error. It's just an interconnect within the existing harness.
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Dang! Back to square one. I would like to get a back-up for my 2003 Dyna Low Rider.
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Dang! Back to square one. I would like to get a back-up for my 2003 Dyna Low Rider.
Do you have alarm on the Dyna? If so you'll need the TSSM mentioned above. If not it's just the TSM.
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Don,
Is this a no crank situation or no start?
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Don,
Is this a no crank situation or no start?
The TSM completes the ground for the starter relay Mike. So if the alarm is triggered (along with the siren going off [if you have the siren]) the starter does not engage. The next statement is assumption based on how I'd expect the circuit design to be laid out with that assumption being that its fail-safe mode would do the same thing in the case of failure.
That speaks only to the "security" side of the TSSM though; or TSM for bikes without the alarm function. We also know that either TSSM or TSM can shut off ignition because what the old farts among us will remember as the bank angle sensor is also built in the TSSM or TSM. And we know that function shuts off ignition because the same modules were used on both fuel injected bikes and bikes with carburetors.
Then, for anyone thinking "I'll just eliminate it" in case of some future failure there are also the turn signals and hazard lights to consider. Even if you did wire around all that you'd have an annoying check engine light because the now absent module wouldn't be sending it's state-of-health signal at ignition on. On the newer bikes I believe the neutral and clutch interlocks are also managed through the -07 and later module.
So in a pinch could you hard-wire a ground to the start relay (that's #9 and #12 on the module if I remember correctly). I'm about 95% sure that would let the bike start and run (pre -07 modules anyway; the -07 module for the later bikes is still available new though). But you'd lose bank angle sensor safety, turn signals, and hazards. Not ideal but might at least get you home or until such a time as a replacement module was scored on eBay. All of that potential annoyance is why I like spare parts if I'm keeping my old bikes. Even a spare TSM would let you continue a road trip only losing alarm function. Granted, the pairing process for TSM or TSSM to ECM is a pain-in-the-ass doing it at the handlebars. It's much easier at a dealership with their tools though. So even if you fail in a parking lot or on the side of the road you're only delayed long enough to get towed in.
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Don,
Thanks for the explanation and going to the details of what it controls. I developed a crank no start problem on my 03. I haven't had time to chase the problem but I think I can rule this part out.
Thanks,
Mike
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Don,
Thanks for the explanation and going to the details of what it controls. I developed a crank no start problem on my 03. I haven't had time to chase the problem but I think I can rule this part out.
Thanks,
Mike
Uh oh. If it's cranking and not starting and you're sure you've got fuel and if there's no codes present my first throw-a-part-at-it thing to try is always the crank position sensor.
Your 03 won't have a cam position sensor so no need to worry about that anymore. The crank sensor is a piece that dies occasionally though. Intermittent shut offs usually (but not always) precede total failure. That's another part I always carry spare because I've had them fail, it's something you can change on the side of the road, and they are not FRIGHTENINGLY expensive. Good luck Mike.
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Thanks Don!