Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[adkg12]

Just curious.  When you come to a red traffic light, how many of you shift to neutral and let go of the clutch  and just chill?  Also, do you all use engine braking when slowing down?
Glen

[Twolanerider]

Stay in low with hand on the clutch.  Doing so always trying to stop far enough behind vehicle in front to have a route out if see it's needed.  That way can scoot in a hurry is see coming that warrants getting out of its way.

[ultrarider123]

Stay in low with hand on the clutch.  Doing so always trying to stop far enough behind vehicle in front to have a route out if see it's needed.  That way can scoot in a hurry is see coming that warrants getting out of its way.

Let me be the first to say amen to that...

I never felt comfortable sitting in neutral/hand off the clutch at a traffic light.  I want to be on ready at all times...either to pull away (after looking both ways) or to get out of the way.

And to the engine/compression braking, absolutely!

[Fired00d]

Stay in 1^st with clutch engaged... like said above always be ready to move/get away from any dangers that could present themselves. I do use engine braking.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[03Lightningrocks]

Let me be the first to say amen to that...

I never felt comfortable sitting in neutral/hand off the clutch at a traffic light.  I want to be on ready at all times...either to pull away (after looking both ways) or to get out of the way.

And to the engine/compression braking, absolutely!

Aman!!! Right foot on brake, left foot on ground. Watching mirrors for traffic coming up behind me. I have actually been close to getting slammed. I pulled in between two cars and the ding dong lady smacked right into the car I was sitting behind. She was texting.
That said, I swear on all that is holy I see almost nobody else doing this. I have been on group rides and darned near wet myself when the light turns green and all I hear around me is clack clack clack as all the other bikes are putting her in first to go.

[J-Carr]

Yes, I engine break. And I stay in first gear 90% of the time, angled slightly with room to evade.  So all I have to do is rev and drop the clutch and I'm out of the crunch zone.  I always check the mirrors and the angle I stop at is enough that in case of a chain reaction or the idiot behind me suddenly accelerates it will push me out to the side.

I say 90% because I'm rural and there are times when I can see that there's no one who can get anywhere near me from any direction before the light changes.  In those rare case I occasionally will use the opportunity to put it in neutral and make some adjustments to the boys.      These old 110s get intentsly hot and sometimes you gotta breath.

[JCZ]

Location, location, location.

At most red lights I keep it in 1st with the clutch pulled in.  However, going down Orange Ave. in Coronado you'll sit there for four or five minutes in between signal changes (have to get all the sailers onto the island on to their respective bases and when traffic backs up over the bridge it's backed up on to I-5).  Speed limit is only 25 mph on Orange so I wait for two or three cars to line up behind me then shift to neutral and let the clutch go.  Get to the next corner and repeat it. 

It's that way during commute hours trying to get thousands of sailers on to that island and then trying to get thousands of sailers off that island that's why the lights are set for so long in the north/south direction and for a very short period of time east/west direction. 

And yes, I engine brake.

[kiro]

As JC indicated, location has much to do with going into neutral or not. I almost never do because our lights aren't that long, but have on occasion like in a long line of traffic in stop and go. Also engine brake and always allow enough room when approaching a vehicle to move out of the way to either side just in case. Situational awareness is always paramount so I keep an eye on what's going on around, behind, front, etc. You need more space from a stop anyway because you'd be right on top of a cage at normal take off speeds at a light.

[adkg12]

I was merely curious.  I agree in that its about the situation and location.  I do both.  Almost always engine brake though.  I read a debate once that engine braking prematurely wears the rear tire.. but I really havent seen any hard evidence to promote or support that. 
Glen

[03Lightningrocks]

I was merely curious.  I agree in that its about the situation and location.  I do both.  Almost always engine brake though.  I read a debate once that engine braking prematurely wears the rear tire.. but I really havent seen any hard evidence to promote or support that. 
Glen

I engine brake A LOT! I sure hope it is not wearing my tires out. I try to save the rubber for my "smokey burn outs".

[TNCarters]

Usually stay in gear at lights unless the light is known to be really long or I'm in stop and go traffic and getting tired of constantly holding clutch in for the 20th+ stop.  I too engine break slowing to a stop.  I would think it would be harder on the clutch than the rear tire.  Always thought about going to neutral when I had bikes with cable clutch just in case a cable snaps but now with hydraulics I just leave it in gear.  Afraid I have a habit of pulling up too close to have an escape. 

Rear-ending is popular around here.  My wife's been hit twice, me once and daughter once all in our cages.  My daughter was hit so hard on a flat straight road that it totaled her Accord.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am curious, I have attended more than one MSC. Several actually and they taught this in every coarse I have had for years.

Of those that do keep her ready to go(cocked and locked...LOL), how many of you have taken a MSC or two or three?

[Ironhorse]

There is no right or wrong, only what you are comfortable with. That said, location, location, location.

[J-Carr]

I am curious, I have attended more than one MSC. Several actually and they taught this in every coarse I have had for years.

Of those that do keep her ready to go(cocked and locked...LOL), how many of you have taken a MSC or two or three?

Three MSF Advanced rider course - Once on a sporty once solo on the dresser and once two up on the dresser.  Yeah they teach it here too.

[tweeter13]

When I first started riding, I was at a light in town with all my buddies.  I was mid pack and watch my mirrors and bikes started just getting plowed over behind me and I drove up and on the curb and into the grass and just dropped the bike there and when I turned around this pick up truck was already passed where I was at.  2 of my friends were not so lucky that day.  They went to hospital with broken legs and and multiple other problems others were just banged up.  Bikes were destroyed.   The gentlemen that ran into all of them had a stroke coming up to the light.  He was the only one that day that lost his life that day.  It was sad.  He had a Purple Heart license plate and when he was slumped over I new there was something wrong.  But you never know what may happen.  I wish we would have had cell phones back then.

 Always in gear checking mirrors and looking around.   I don't keep a foot on the brake I use the front brake must be from the old Moto cross days.   
Todd

[phato1]

Let me be the first to say amen to that...

I never felt comfortable sitting in neutral/hand off the clutch at a traffic light.  I want to be on ready at all times...either to pull away (after looking both ways) or to get out of the way.

And to the engine/compression braking, absolutely!

And a hallelujah too 

One of my biggest fears while on the bike is being run into from behind at a traffic light, I make a conscious effort to watch my 6 at all times.

[Twolanerider]

And a hallelujah too 

One of my biggest fears while on the bike is being run into from behind at a traffic light, I make a conscious effort to watch my 6 at all times.

I know....  Too much time at a light and I pucker more and more.  Always watching and always leave a little room to go one way other other (or either) if need be.  Twice over the years have cut between vehicles in front me to avoid something I feared might be coming.  One locked his brakes up and ended just about where I was.  Don't know if I'd have gotten slapped or not.  But too damned closed to call.

[ultrafxr]

Good discussion and advice.  Many folks are oblivious to what is behind.  Kinda like that old movie, Cannoball Run, Gumball Rally, where the guy rips off the mirror from the windshield and says, 'whatsa behind me is not important.'  Ah but yes it is!  Most of us do a pretty good job of watching out front say from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock or thereabouts but don't pay enough attention to our six o'clock.  Whenever I come to an intersections and have to stop that is the very first thing I check and keep paying attention to.  Never needed to so far but you never know.  Better safe than sorry.   

[03Lightningrocks]

snip...  I don't keep a foot on the brake I use the front brake must be from the old Moto cross days.   
Todd

That is pretty common for those that have ridden dirt bikes. I had to break myself of it. It is probably not a big deal but you gain as much as 2 seconds by using the foot brake and keeping the clutch right at the start of the friction zone.

[CVODON]

Sorry, been riding for 50 years but I have no idea what using the brake pedal over the front brake has to do with the clutch engagement. I assume maybe you think you need your right hand to twist the throttle? I can hold the brake and twist the throttle at the same time, I think everyone can so?? Where does 2 seconds come from. I am being serious here, 2 seconds is a long time in traffic. And in the big scheme I am screwed, I never use the rear brake except in panic stops or rain.

[03Lightningrocks]

Sorry, been riding for 50 years but I have no idea what using the brake pedal over the front brake has to do with the clutch engagement. I assume maybe you think you need your right hand to twist the throttle? I can hold the brake and twist the throttle at the same time, I think everyone can so?? Where does 2 seconds come from. I am being serious here, 2 seconds is a long time in traffic. And in the big scheme I am screwed, I never use the rear brake except in panic stops or rain.

Police training.    It is possible to keep slight pressure on the clutch and hold the rear brake at the same time. Let foot off brake...go. All fingers on throttle for complete control No leg to lift off the ground and search for rear brake if a sudden stop while turning is called for after taking off. Hit front brake while emergency turning equals fork lock. Fifty years of riding and I still strive to improve my abilities. Always learning...
On a similar topic of time in seconds being critical.  It takes one second to go from throttle to brake. Keeping your hand laying over the top while riding can mean stopping quick enough to save around sixty feet. Which has been the difference for me in missing my target and smacking into the rear end of it.
Check out a feller called Jerry "Motorman" Palladino.

[J-Carr]

Check out a feller called Jerry "Motorman" Palladino.

Just don't let your wife watch his videos.  He's pretty insulting, at least in the old ones.  I think he's trying to be funny, but I've seen my lady riders get a bit POd at him.

I tend to do the front brake because of my racing days (I think).  But I will use the motorman's police techniques if I'm pulling out into an uphill tight turn.  To be honest usually I don't worry about it and just balance the clutch when the lights about to turn.  Then I'm not on either brake.

MSF tells you to brake with both hand and foot and as soon as you stop release the foot break and secure both feet on the ground.  I don't recall them saying either way for pulling out as to which break to hold.

[Rooster]

I used to keep in 1st with clutch pulled in. Now I drop in Neutral cause I have a Gold Diaphram spring on my Rivera clutch that you don't want to hold very long cause I might accidentely relax my grig for a split second and launch.

[03Lightningrocks]

I think the main rule with the front brake is "Don't engage it while trying to do a slow speed turn".

He actually shows an example of the one foot up in his video. He has a friend come up on his rear right fast. He simply lifts his foot off the rear brake and goes.

As far as one foot up on the brake goes, police motorcycle training teaches this for years. It is to gain every extra advantage in case one must leave quickly. Split seconds do count.

There is probably nothing harder for us bike riders to do than accepting our "doing it for X years that way" does not equate to doing it right for years.

Oh well. I did my part. I told the PROPER way to do it. I bet I will still watch 9 out of 10 riders do it wrong and even get away with it.  Until that one time... and then a post will pop up about how it was unavoidable.

By the way. My MSF training was with a police officer that trains police riders. That might explain why I was taught the Jerry way. Maybe  your MSF trained to put both feet on the ground to make it easier for novice riders to balance the bike. That would make sense.

[03Lightningrocks]

One more comment I would like to address. I am not sure what about Jerry Palladino any woman would find insulting. He has as many women riders in his videos as men and even his wife is on them. IMHO, there would be a real hard reach for anyone to find themselves "offended" by anything I watched or heard him say.

[CVODON]

This posting went all over the place. Police training vs MSF vs Palladino. Sorry, the one foot on rear brake and one foot on ground not going to work for me. Maybe a good idea, just not acceptable for me with 900# bike and me and wife. I have ridden enough to never grab front brake in turn, at least I never have & hopefully I won't. I think we all use rear brake and friction zone in traffic/low speed manuvers etc. I have enjoyed reading everybodies choices and will consider them all.  How to ride guy is local here, I have seen him a hundred times, I personally learned from him, but he can be "abrupt".

[willyB]

I learned my lesson many years ago.

I was sitting at a stoplight in 1st with the clutch in. I looked in my mirror (always) and I saw a car coming a little too quick. Twisted the throttle, let out the clutch and I got out of the way just in time as the car smashed into the rear of the car that was in front of me.

Danger doesn't just come from in front or left and right!

Head on a swivel because God gave you a neck and mirrors because God didn't give us eyes on the back of heads.

[J-Carr]

One more comment I would like to address. I am not sure what about Jerry Palladino any woman would find insulting. He has as many women riders in his videos as men and even his wife is on them. IMHO, there would be a real hard reach for anyone to find themselves "offended" by anything I watched or heard him say.

Then you haven't watched the version I have with a group of women who got offended.  I have.  I don't remember which version of Ride Like A Pro it was, but he was trying to be humorous with the lady (It may be his wife) who was riding the banana SEEG.  After a while it starting working on the nerves of some of the ladies of Harley riders who were watching it in our hog room.  No reaching... some people find gender based stereo types offensive, even if he was trying to be funny about it.  My wife and I are not offended by it or him.  I was simply passing along a warning so it didn't catch anyone off guard.  The newer versions of the DVD he may have stopped doing that.  Ours is around 10 years old.

[03Lightningrocks]

OH NO!!!??? That is funny. He must have learned his lesson because he plays it real straight in his newest ones. Yeah... that is something. I hate to admit it but I would get a kick out of watching him get in trouble like that.

I bet after bad backlash he settled it down.

[2015FLHTKSE]

I use both the front brake, rear brake and engine to slow down. I always leave space between a cage and myself and always check my mirrors just in case. When stopped, I always use both feet on the ground, use the front brake and clutch in with 1st gear engaged. Only 40 years experience. 

[CVO2FIXUP]

 Always in neutral.  Need both hands for texting, eating and air guitar.

[grc]

Always in neutral.  Need both hands for texting, eating and air guitar.

 

I put mine in neutral and also shut the engine down.  Keeps things cooler and leaves both hands free for rearranging certain body parts, scratching my azz, moving the mirrors so I can check out the hot chick in the convertible behind me, etc.  I'm old, and I can only concentrate on one thing at a time.  If I left it running in gear I might launch into the car in front of me when that hot chick winks at me.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

I put mine in neutral and also shut the engine down.  Keeps things cooler and leaves both hands free for rearranging certain body parts, scratching my azz, moving the mirrors so I can check out the hot chick in the convertible behind me, etc.  I'm old, and I can only concentrate on one thing at a time. If I left it running in gear I might launch into the car in front of me when that hot chick winks at me.

Jerry

Pretty girls still wink at you?  You lucky bastard....

[grc]

Pretty girls still wink at you?  You lucky bastard....

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jerry 

[VaEagle]

How many of you still get this reaction though...... 

[kiro]

How many of you still get this reaction though......

Haha - Nice!

[TrainWreck88]

That was awesome!!!!! I am still looking for a decent used one, but all the ones I have looked at in the PNW are rust buckets or the seller thinks it is worth more than his trophy wife


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[08glide]

just came across this post. as for the jerry comments,he TRIED to be a comedian in RLP IV. he changed tat in RLP V. as for the neutral topic, I believe in location, location,location.if in congested traffic I stay in alert readiness mode(not that I don't all the time,just more so in heavy traffic areas). I too have had to jump the curb to keep from being sandwiched by a vehicle from behind another vehicle 2 cars back.vehicle behind me was pushed into vehicle that was in front of me. this was 1978, washington dc. as a instructor for smith system defensive driving (used in the trucking industry), we teach 5 keys. I also include these keys in the classes I do using RLP. ALL GOOD KIDS LOVE MILK.
A - aim high. be looking 15 sec ahead
G - get the big picture. be looking ahead & at possible intrusions into your path of travel (parking lots, side streets, parked cars,etc)
K - keep your eyes moving. use 8 sec rule. 2sec straight ahead, 2 sec to left & mirror, 2 sec straight, 2 sec right & mirror, .
L -leave yourself an out .don't get boxed in, leave enough space between vehicles to maneuver at stops.
M - make sure they see you. look for eye contact. don't put yourself in blind spots (especially intersections)
 
hope this will give some insight to some & help everyone to be safe & careful. this is why I post this at the end of my post on rider intro
RIDE SAFE!     BE CAREFUL!
 

[Jbbrown73]

Always in gear checking mirrors and looking around.   I don't keep a foot on the brake I use the front brake must be from the old Moto cross days.   
Todd

I rarely use my rear brake at all. I really like the 2015 with linked brakes.

[ultrarider123]

as a instructor for smith system defensive driving (used in the trucking industry), we teach 5 keys. I also include these keys in the classes I do using RLP. ALL GOOD KIDS LOVE MILK.
A - aim high. be looking 15 sec ahead
G - get the big picture. be looking ahead & at possible intrusions into your path of travel (parking lots, side streets, parked cars,etc)
K - keep your eyes moving. use 8 sec rule. 2sec straight ahead, 2 sec to left & mirror, 2 sec straight, 2 sec right & mirror, .
L -leave yourself an out .don't get boxed in, leave enough space between vehicles to maneuver at stops.
M - make sure they see you. look for eye contact. don't put yourself in blind spots (especially intersections)

"All Good Kids Like Milk"...the 5 keys

My brother from another mother....I, too, am a Smith System instructor and yes, these work for two wheels up to 18 or more wheeled vehicles....

[08glide]

"All Good Kids Like Milk"...the 5 keys

My brother from another mother....I, too, am a Smith System instructor and yes, these work for two wheels up to 18 or more wheeled vehicles....

same heavenly father though! no doubt

[ultrarider123]

Amen to that!

[murphy]

Looks like I'm in the minority here, I always use the engine to slow, the front brake is is my main stopper and it's tapped a few times while I slow to alert the guy picking his nose behind me.

Back brake pads haven't been replaced in years, that's cause they are only used in an emergency... well after the front is applied.

About the sitting in neutral, I only keep in gear until the first vehicle is behind me (unless they're too close, then I just move), after the barrier shows it's in neutral till it's time to go.

I expect that I'm going to get hit from behind, so I'm ready to dump it in gear and go... not paranoid, just prepared.

[tdkkart]

I eliminate this entire problem by simply routing myself around any place large enough to have a stop light.
Much easier to do here in Iowa than some other places.

[J-Carr]

just came across this post. as for the jerry comments,he TRIED to be a comedian in RLP IV. he changed tat in RLP V.

That's great to know.  Like I said, it never bothered me or the wife as we both have a sense of humor.  But after recommending it to a few who lacked that most important sense, I always add a disclaimer so that people can't say I didn't warn them.  Regardless, I think his techniques are for the most part excellent and we practice them frequently.  My only criticism of his riding techniques is that he makes it seem too easy. Snap your head around, find the friction zone and the bike will magically drag floorboards through the U-Turn.  It does take a bit more than that a chit load of practice.

I kinda like that All Cows Eat Grass idea.  I always had trouble with the bass clef... oops wrong mnemonic.  That happens to me all the time when I'm trying to remember to SEE or check my T-Clocks or drink milk while playing my bass guitar.    Seriously, just kidding.  It's a great way to learn it! 

[Dave McDowall]

Never


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RGlideKid]

One more comment I would like to address. I am not sure what about Jerry Palladino any woman would find insulting. He has as many women riders in his videos as men and even his wife is on them. IMHO, there would be a real hard reach for anyone to find themselves "offended" by anything I watched or heard him say.

I've got the 5th edition of his DVD and he does like to joke with the ladies, but I've never seen him get out of hand with them, but then he's on video too.  I don't know what he's like in real life.  Then again, I've seen his wife kid right back with him too.  Maybe he was a little "sexist" in his earlier vids but if so, he seems to have toned it down by my 5th edition.
Overlooking all personal things...the man can ride a Harley and so can his wife and their crew.  His video helped me a lot, which helps even more when pulling the Bushtec.
As to the question at hand, it depends on location, but I usually keep her in first at a busy intersection.

[92fxsts]

I know this topic is stale, but I read the attached article in the February American Motorcyclist Magazine.  Apparently the AMA or the MSF is also reading this forum and has their .02 worth to add.  Personally I consider whether the signal is stale, what the temperature outside is, how tired my hands are, etc.. and then I may or may not go neutral.  How is that for being precise?

[kiro]

Apparently the AMA or the MSF is also reading this forum and has their .02 worth to add.

Thanks for posting this short article... They recommended staying in gear for the reasons stated, which makes sense. I think the most important consideration mentioned was making sure the intersection is clear before proceeding. It sure seems like many vehicles are 'pushing the envelop' at light changes rather than sitting through another red these days...

[CVODON]

Do you take your pick-up/car etc out of gear at a light?

[bigchuck]

Just curious.  When you come to a red traffic light, how many of you shift to neutral and let go of the clutch  and just chill?  Also, do you all use engine braking when slowing down?
Glen

As said before stay in first and watch your mirrors. Motorcycles have 3 brakes. Front, rear and engine. I use all of them.

[08glide]

5 keys of defensive driving ( smith system) in the trucking industry. All Good Kids Love Milk
A - aim high   G-get the big picture    K- keep your eyes moving    L- leave yourself an out  (HARD TO DO IN NEUTRAL )
M- make sure they see you ( make eye contact)

[68 XLCH]

Depends on the situation.

Just stay alert, in or out of gear.

Definitely down shift for braking, when appropriate.

[cyril]

Aman!!! Right foot on brake, left foot on ground. Watching mirrors for traffic coming up behind me. I have actually been close to getting slammed. I pulled in between two cars and the ding dong lady smacked right into the car I was sitting behind. She was texting.
That said, I swear on all that is holy I see almost nobody else doing this. I have been on group rides and darned near wet myself when the light turns green and all I hear around me is clack clack clack as all the other bikes are putting her in first to go.

Any group is only as good as the worst rider , cant beat 5/6 riders you know well enough .

[Road Dad]

Jerry is great in real life. Long time ago since he was a motor officer though and the skills he teaches are very simple. First day stuff in any motor officer class.

I've got the 5th edition of his DVD and he does like to joke with the ladies, but I've never seen him get out of hand with them, but then he's on video too.  I don't know what he's like in real life.  Then again, I've seen his wife kid right back with him too.  Maybe he was a little "sexist" in his earlier vids but if so, he seems to have toned it down by my 5th edition.
Overlooking all personal things...the man can ride a Harley and so can his wife and their crew.  His video helped me a lot, which helps even more when pulling the Bushtec.
As to the question at hand, it depends on location, but I usually keep her in first at a busy intersection.

[dayne66]

Pretty much NEVER.