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[ACfixer]

2015 RGU just turned 10,000 miles on my 2,000 miles trip I returned from yesterday. I'm taking it in for the 10K service with a minor punch list, nothing too bad except yesterday I started getting a pretty significant rattle noise and vibration in neutral with the clutch out. It's not "always" but at least 50% of the time and the noise and vibration goes away completely when I pull in the clutch. Seems more pronounced when the bike is hot... I've read a few things on the primary chain adjuster, does this sound like I'm barking up the right tree? It probably won't happen in front of the service manager of course but I want to make them aware. All else seems fine, the trans shift great and the motor purrs.

Got the Redwoods run coming up in two weeks, I need to get it right before then!

Thank you,
Lance

PS: I tried the search function, so I apologize in advance but I guess I'm just not that good at using it or narrowing my search.

[DCFIREMANN]

Get use to it. Harley just came out with a technical bulletin to all of the dealers. That this noise is NORMAL!!!!! Try putting some decent oil in the trans like Red Line heavy shockproof. It may quite it down just a bit.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Dan_Lockwood]

See this thread in this forum.  The Technical Bulletin is shown there.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=107772.0

[ACfixer]

I saw that guys... but this seems more significant than a "rattle" and it's on the left side of the bike while seated on it, not the right side as they said in the bulletin. Does Harley refer to the right side as seated or??? I'm no bike mechanic but it really sounds and feels more than a "rattle". And it certainly doesn't take ten or fifteen seconds as mentioned in the bulletin after pulling in the clutch to make the noise and vibration quit, it ceases immediately.

It really sounds like it's coming from the primary side.

Adding a "PS" here... PS: If it is this neutral rattle, in spite of MoCo saying it's normal... I've been around machinery my whole life and can't accept that answer, so even if I have to go out on my own, what's the fix? Is using a heavier gear oil the only solution?

[Unbalanced]

I'd want to check that the compensator is not the issue whether loose, or bad or such.   I would also ask that if you took the bike up to say 5k+ rpm how smooth does the crank seem compared to say 3k,4k etc

[ACfixer]

Bike seems smooth through the powerband, the noise/vibration is only there when it's warmed up and in neutral with the clutch out. Really seems like a slack chain or maybe the bearing going bad? I want the tech to pull the primary cover when I drop it off this Friday and go through it, I'll probably have to pop for an hour labor to get him to do it unless I can get it to happen in front of them. When the service writer was ready to immediately dismiss it as "neutral rattle" over the phone I was about ready to go lose my boot in his lower colon. Fortunately the service and general manager should be there Friday and we have a good relationship thus far. Both service writers are know-it-all punks.

[HUBBARD]

Get use to it. Harley just came out with a technical bulletin to all of the dealers. That this noise is NORMAL!!!!! Try putting some decent oil in the trans like Red Line heavy shockproof. It may quite it down just a bit.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Hehehe.  Brought back memeories of puttin' STP in the ratchet-top of the Ol' Pan Head, back in the day.  I used it for years in Truck trransmissions, too, that were in extreme applications, but tranny pumps put an end to that.  I'd check out Harry's input, too.  Later--HUBBARD     

[ACfixer]

I'll definitely be going to a better/heavier lube in the primary and trans.

[DCFIREMANN]

I'll definitely be going to a better/heavier lube in the primary and trans.

If you do your own service buy a Redline Power Pak and buy 1 qt of extra primary fluid. The Redline 20w 50 engine motor oil will quite down the motor as well. You will love the way the bike rides and sounds. IF that noise is coming from the left side of the motor it could be as Harry stated your compensator. You also stated you were taking the bike in for a 10K service. PLEASE don't let the dealer put syn3 back in that bike. Some dealers are selling Redline as well. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Hehehe.  Brought back memeories of puttin' STP in the ratchet-top of the Ol' Pan Head, back in the day. I used it for years in Truck trransmissions, too, that were in extreme applications, but tranny pumps put an end to that.  I'd check out Harry's input, too.  Later--HUBBARD   

Oh no not STP!!!!! Do they still make that stuff? Ratchet top of the Ol' Pan Head?? Now you are showing our age!!!!! LMAO!!!! STP was the cure all back in the day.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Mr. Warlock]

I know this may sound too simple and you probably already checked it........... On mine, the shifter and linkage is very noisy and more so after warm up and idling. Obviously everything vibrates more after the fluids have heated and thinned out. The vibration and rattling is mainly coming as a result of the very loose shift rod through the housing at the front of the primary.I will be pulling mine apart and making my own bushing for this and get it tightened up. Very poor mechanical quality for this deal.

[JCZ]

Lance have you checked your heat shields?  I had a similar noise in my 10 SESG and several suggested the heat shields.  I'd grab them when the motor was cool and they seemed tight.  Had Jim check it at my next service and he reports back "your heat shields were loose".  Dealership would have charged me for a couple hours labor to fix an imaginary widgit.  I just couldn't beleive that noise was coming from heat shields.....especially  heat shields that "appeared" to be tight when cool to the touch. 

Certainly worth it to check for the simple things first. 

Tell them to ride it far enough to get the motor heated up so they can experience what you're experiencing.

[grc]

I know this may sound too simple and you probably already checked it........... On mine, the shifter and linkage is very noisy and more so after warm up and idling. Obviously everything vibrates more after the fluids have heated and thinned out. The vibration and rattling is mainly coming as a result of the very loose shift rod through the housing at the front of the primary.I will be pulling mine apart and making my own bushing for this and get it tightened up. Very poor mechanical quality for this deal.

Be careful about making that linkage shaft too snug a fit.  Many of us over the years have had the opposite problem, with binding of that shaft in the primary housing.  If you decide to tighten up the clearance, make sure you also make plans to lubricate it on a regular basis.

Jerry

[HUBBARD]

Another ez check.......make sure the rubber stop in the kickstand is intact.  Later--HUBBARD

[grc]

2015 RGU just turned 10,000 miles on my 2,000 miles trip I returned from yesterday. I'm taking it in for the 10K service with a minor punch list, nothing too bad except yesterday I started getting a pretty significant rattle noise and vibration in neutral with the clutch out. It's not "always" but at least 50% of the time and the noise and vibration goes away completely when I pull in the clutch. Seems more pronounced when the bike is hot... I've read a few things on the primary chain adjuster, does this sound like I'm barking up the right tree? It probably won't happen in front of the service manager of course but I want to make them aware. All else seems fine, the trans shift great and the motor purrs.

Got the Redwoods run coming up in two weeks, I need to get it right before then!

Thank you,
Lance

PS: I tried the search function, so I apologize in advance but I guess I'm just not that good at using it or narrowing my search.

The neutral rattle issue isn't something that just appears overnight after 10,000 miles.  It is a condition caused by manufacturing tolerances.  If anyone just blows you off with that nonsense, don't accept it.

I would suggest doing some real diagnostics.  Start with the ideas already mentioned, like loose heat shields  and linkages.  The fact the noise disappears when the clutch is disengaged doesn't necessarily mean it's an internal trans problem.  When you disengage the clutch you slightly change the load on the engine as well as the primary chain. 

Jerry

[ACfixer]

Yes, thank you guys... Jerry I agree with you 100%, it was something that happened in rather short order. It was actually in Blythe (100 miles east of Palm Springs) and the hottest part of my journey when it really became obvious to me while idling in the restaurant parking lot that I had an issue of some sort.

The thing that has me pretty convinced against heat shield and kickstands etc... is the noticeable vibration and additional engine shaking while it's occurring. There's something out of balance, loose, or worn out IMO. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Lance

[TNCarters]

Lance, I have same bike with similar mileage.  I've had a noise in the primary area since day one that I did not have on prior Harley's.  I would not describe it as a rattle, sounds more like a loose chain to me.  I don't hear it when on the bike riding.  Only when its sitting idling in neutral with clutch out.  Does not seem to be getting any worse so just took it as something HD redesigned that is now noisier. If it gets any worse I'll get the primary cover pulled to check it out.

[Mr. Warlock]

Be careful about making that linkage shaft too snug a fit.  Many of us over the years have had the opposite problem, with binding of that shaft in the primary housing.  If you decide to tighten up the clearance, make sure you also make plans to lubricate it on a regular basis.

Jerry

Well aware but thanks for the heads up. This thing is beyond just a loose fit it's actually very sloppy.

[ACfixer]

Lance, I have same bike with similar mileage.  I've had a noise in the primary area since day one that I did not have on prior Harley's.  I would not describe it as a rattle, sounds more like a loose chain to me.  I don't hear it when on the bike riding.  Only when its sitting idling in neutral with clutch out.  Does not seem to be getting any worse so just took it as something HD redesigned that is now noisier. If it gets any worse I'll get the primary cover pulled to check it out.

Does it do it always Ron? Mine seems to be gone now that the engine is cold... And when it's doing it does the engine seem to shake a bit more than normal? I just want to go in armed with as much info as I can tomorrow. Thanks!

[Rooster]

I found my rattle was in the heim joints in my fancy Screaming Eagle linkage was advised to grease them. I think I will look for some better ones to replace these.

[Mr. Warlock]

I found my rattle was in the heim joints in my fancy Screaming Eagle linkage was advised to grease them. I think I will look for some better ones to replace these.

That too, lol. The original ones that came on the bike are much quieter.

[Rooster]

My original is much tighter as well and I don't see any grease. I would think if I used grease it would melt with the motor heat rather quickly and the rattle would return.

[TNCarters]

Not noticed my chain noise changing with engine temp or primary lube weight. I've run HD Syn3, HD Formula, Mobil 1 and Redline fluids without much difference in sound.

[grc]

Yes, thank you guys... Jerry I agree with you 100%, it was something that happened in rather short order. It was actually in Blythe (100 miles east of Palm Springs) and the hottest part of my journey when it really became obvious to me while idling in the restaurant parking lot that I had an issue of some sort.

The thing that has me pretty convinced against heat shield and kickstands etc... is the noticeable vibration and additional engine shaking while it's occurring. There's something out of balance, loose, or worn out IMO. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Lance

Do you have the EITC system enabled?  If the rear cylinder is shutting down, that will cause some shaking and noise.  Just a thought.

Jerry

[ACfixer]

Do you have the EITC system enabled?  If the rear cylinder is shutting down, that will cause some shaking and noise.  Just a thought.

Jerry

That thought crossed my mind too Jerry... But I have it disabled. I'm not sure how it actually works with the TTS tuner however, several of us have asked for support on that issue and so far I haven't ever got what I feel is a satisfactory answer. I cannot for the life of me tell if it's actually working now even when it's enabled because with the TTS it never shows "ACTIVE" like it did with the stock ECM map. I was also told it behaves differently with the TTS and alternated cylinders rather than just shutting off the rear jug. I kind of abandoned the idea of it causing the issue however because of the clutch when pulled in negates the issue.

I took it in for it's 10K service today. Everything seemed quieter in general but I think it's the placebo effect like when your car runs better after a car wash.  I brought the issue to the attention of the better of the two service writers and he said he's heard of similar incidents when the auto primary adjuster fails to ratchet up a tooth or just hasn't done so yet. He said he had the tech tap it forward to make sure... We'll see. Like I said it seems better, but it never got that hot on the ride home.

Stay tuned,
Lance

[r0de_runr]

Try the BelRey trans lube, and ride the hell out of it.  My rattle went away with mileage and the BelRey.

[ACfixer]

Well I was on my way up to NorCal to hunt down JC and the gang... and the noise/shake/rattle got bad. It was somewhat sporadic at first and gradually got obnoxious. I was in Lake Tahoe area and so I called my dealer and spoke with the general manager. He asked me if it ran okay on the highway at cruising speeds, I said yes so he told me to just ride it home and get it to him. Got it there a few hours ago before they closed and he witnessed it first hand and laughed when I mentioned "neutral rattle" and said it was obviously not that. He said he thought about 90% that is was a compensator issue.

So, we'll see. I'll let you guys know once they open it up.

PS: I did put Redline Shockproof in the trans, despite all the good stuff I read about it and it didn't seem much different... maybe a hint smoother/quieter. That six speed is just a noisy transmission I guess.

[r0de_runr]

Compensator problems are of course a different matter.

I wasn't blowing smoke, mine went away. Here is the service bulletin.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiNpMDE5YbNAhVIQVIKHXhyCmAQFggqMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdforums.com%2Fforum%2Fattachments%2Ftouring-models%2F459828d1455468470-neutral-primary-chirp-attn-gearheads-service-bulletin-big-twin-neutral-rattle-0811.pdf&usg=AFQjCNES7G8HcrI1bmn1SelB6hN8X4Zjfg&sig2=f_uQNYFm_4gmG7lIiCyZgg&cad=rja

[ACfixer]

Compensator problems are of course a different matter.

I wasn't blowing smoke, mine went away. Here is the service bulletin.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiNpMDE5YbNAhVIQVIKHXhyCmAQFggqMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdforums.com%2Fforum%2Fattachments%2Ftouring-models%2F459828d1455468470-neutral-primary-chirp-attn-gearheads-service-bulletin-big-twin-neutral-rattle-0811.pdf&usg=AFQjCNES7G8HcrI1bmn1SelB6hN8X4Zjfg&sig2=f_uQNYFm_4gmG7lIiCyZgg&cad=rja

^^^ Yeah I was aware of the neutral rattle issue, I wasn't doubting you or anyone else here Greg. That fact the GM and I laughed about it was base on his nutbrain service writer that dismissed my issues as neutral rattle over the phone and told me not to worry about it. Then when I brought it in for the 10K the other service writer was convinced the tensioner wasn't advancing and pretty much blew me off as well. Fortunately this time I was able to have the GM see it in action and he agreed the primary case needed to be opened up the the problem addressed under warranty.

The unfortunate part is that the two a-holes that ignored my problem a couple weeks ago and now my bike is in the shop rather than in the Redwoods.

[ACfixer]

**** UPDATE ****

My transmission is junk, some problem with a bearing... The service department called and told me MOCO is covering it under warranty, 7-10 days estimated.

[Robmay]

Just as a "be advised" the TCB mentioned early in this thread mentions a rattle only and nothing about vibration. ACFixer was reporting a "rattle" along with a vibration.

Don't let your service advisor discount it if you have a vibration. Just sucks that it's the typical "that's normal" and "they all do that" bs. 

[ACfixer]

It went from a "rattle" and a vibration to a much more pronounced problem as things like that tend to go. It's like I mentioned earlier Rob, I've been working on machinery, bikes, cars... whatehaveya my whole life pretty much and I know when something has gone amuck. I was kind of blown off at my 10K service, but they're quite aware of the problem now. When the servide writer called me today he asked me "did you put the Bel-Ray in before or after you heard the noise...." It's actually Redline and I knew where he was going with that line of questioning. I told him you know the answer to that Jason, because I brought it up at my last service and you topped off the fluids then. But then he told me Harley was going to replace the trans and that it's a "known problem they aren't talking about".

Gotta love this stuff. Here's a video I made when I was up in Tahoe before I rode it back to SoCal. It was noticeably worse 450 miles later.

[ACfixer]

*** UPDATE ***

Went in and talked to the GM today, I just wasn't happy with the service writer's explanation. The GM told me the main noise WAS the compensator nut not being torqued enough? He said it was at 64 ft. lbs instead of 150. Would this actually make noise guys? I can see if it was loose altogether, but 64 lbs is still pretty tight right?

He said they fixed that but there was still a secondary noise and that's when they pulled the trans down and found out one part that butts up against a doohickey made the thingamajig pop a retaining clip loose... he and the tech showed me the part and showed me the exploded drawing and it appears it was assembled backwards at the factory.

New story everyday, I'm not sure what to think really.

[TinSpinner]

That doesn't sound like compensator noise to me, when mine failed on my '07 bike there wasn't a pronounced rattle either.

Hopefully they get you squared away soon. Don't let them jerk you around about the Redline, mine tried that with me when my brand new '13 bike was leaking transmission fluid. It wasn't the fault of the superior fluid that some nimrod forgot to put the missing gasket on at the factory.

[ACfixer]

That doesn't sound like compensator noise to me, when mine failed on my '07 bike there wasn't a pronounced rattle either.

Hopefully they get you squared away soon. Don't let them jerk you around about the Redline, mine tried that with me when my brand new '13 bike was leaking transmission fluid. It wasn't the fault of the superior fluid that some nimrod forgot to put the missing gasket on at the factory.

That's exactly what I told them when they told me a part in the trans was assembled backwards and if MOCO knew about the Redline they might night cover it... Yeah, BS. I think I can make a pretty good case that a high quality gear lube didn't cause a part to flip around on the shaft.

[Smellymo]

I run Redline in mine, the MOCO is not going to try to blame your issues on your Tranny fluid, I promise. Your dumbass dealer might. 
The sooner you folks realize that these are machines made in Milwaukee (or wherever) and not heaven, the better off you will be.
My experience is the MOCO will make it right, not the opposite. I bet you will experience that also if you give them the opportunity.
Since you are under the impression that your $40000 motorcycle is junk, how about I give you $10000 for it as is? I'll come and get it.

[ACfixer]

Since you are under the impression that your $40000 motorcycle is junk, how about I give you $10000 for it as is? I'll come and get it.

Who's under the impression their $40K motorcycle is junk? I think you have me confused with someone else. And so far the dealer and MOCO are making it right, the numbnuts service writer is the only one that mentioned the Redline. I tell you what, I'll give you $11K for yours.

[ACfixer]

Got the bike back today guys. Obviously this was something that was getting slowly worse until the point I was noticing it in a big way. I got the bike and it is dead quiet and so smooth compared to what it was. The compensator nut was only torqued to 64 lbs according to them, but the main deal was the trans and "gear lash" from improper assembly? Or who knows... Anyway the repair list is as follows.



Evidently Harley knows about this issue and is not seeing it quite enough to issue a service bulletin at this point, again, according to my dealer. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what I was told.

[easternhotrod]

At most of the dealers around here they call that a neutral rattle in the trans and say it's perfectly normal in all 2014/2015 CVO models.
The compensator makes a racket so they put in shims to tighten it up, then they claim that causes the trans to make a rattle in neutral

[ACfixer]

At most of the dealers around here they call that a neutral rattle in the trans and say it's perfectly normal in all 2014/2015 CVO models.
The compensator makes a racket so they put in shims to tighten it up, then they claim that causes the trans to make a rattle in neutral

Yeah I don't know what to think, but what I was experiencing here only fool could have looked at while it was happening and called it "normal". Obviously in my case at least the MOCO saw fit to send out a gear set based on what they saw and heard from the dealer and except for the numbskull service writer on the phone on my initial phone call, nobody at my dealership even hinted at it being normal. This was loud, almost violent, and it was getting worse.

[bigmegina]

Got the bike back today guys. Obviously this was something that was getting slowly worse until the point I was noticing it in a big way. I got the bike and it is dead quiet and so smooth compared to what it was. The compensator nut was only torqued to 64 lbs according to them, but the main deal was the trans and "gear lash" from improper assembly? Or who knows... Anyway the repair list is as follows.



Evidently Harley knows about this issue and is not seeing it quite enough to issue a service bulletin at this point, again, according to my dealer. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what I was told.

glad you got yours fixed.waiting for Harley tech to review my vid.

[bigmegina]

I run Redline in mine, the MOCO is not going to try to blame your issues on your Tranny fluid, I promise. Your dumbass dealer might. 
The sooner you folks realize that these are machines made in Milwaukee (or wherever) and not heaven, the better off you will be.
My experience is the MOCO will make it right, not the opposite. I bet you will experience that also if you give them the opportunity.
Since you are under the impression that your $40000 motorcycle is junk, how about I give you $10000 for it as is? I'll come and get it.

hey newbe

how many new Harleys have you ever bought?have you ever put up 40K for anything,including a bike?i have bought new Harleys every 3 years since 1992,third CVO and none of them ever made any kind of noise.i have a legit beef and you want to put up 10k for a 40k bike?your on the wrong forum,sportster form is the next 1 down with the $10k price range.

[Para Bellum]

I run Redline in mine, the MOCO is not going to try to blame your issues on your Tranny fluid, I promise. Your dumbass dealer might. 
The sooner you folks realize that these are machines made in Milwaukee (or wherever) and not heaven, the better off you will be.
My experience is the MOCO will make it right, not the opposite. I bet you will experience that also if you give them the opportunity.
Since you are under the impression that your $40000 motorcycle is junk, how about I give you $10000 for it as is? I'll come and get it.

Yeah, come and get it, MoFo. 

[LMH]

Got mine back today from the dealer along with Service Bulletin M-1304 Big Twin Neutral Rattle. Basically they claim it's normal having to do with the backlash within "first gear pair".
According to the Service manager " You got a warranty ride it till it breaks, then we will fix it." " Harley doesn't fix noises coming from the motor". Also felt the need to school me on 110 motors been the loudest and most prone to issues for several reasons (always like to be schooled by guys who were in diapers when I was riding and such on my first Harley.).. By then I had already shut down and just wanted my bike back. I did find it interesting how different it is when he talks about the 110 as compared to the sales staff.

Live and learn.

[ACfixer]

Doesn't the 103 have the same 6 speed trans Larry? Why is it happening more with the 110?

BTW I didn't get a chance to ride today, we went jeepin' instead.

[JCZ]

Doesn't the 103 have the same 6 speed trans Larry? Why is it happening more with the 110?

BTW I didn't get a chance to ride today, we went jeepin' instead.

A good substitute Lance! 

[LMH]

Doesn't the 103 have the same 6 speed trans Larry? Why is it happening more with the 110?

Can't answer that Lance. I'm not sure if it's the transmission.
All I can say is my 2014 Limited with 103 was fine with no issues. I'm one month into this 110 CVO  and it's been back to the dealer twice.
It's done for now. I'll enjoy it until it breaks or if it becomes a pain I'll get rid of it.


BTW I didn't get a chance to ride today, we went jeepin' instead.

[ACfixer]

A good substitute Lance! 

It was cooler way up in the mountains JC! I probably should have taken the bike out and got it good and hot but jeeeze I'm going to be dealing with hot, crabby people all week. 

Larry, I'm not sure of anything at this point either. The fact they replace my gear pack obviously means something was amiss there, but they seemed pretty tight lipped about what the issue was. I did hear at one point from the parts manager "MOCO knows there's a problem, but they haven't said anything official. All we know is they said to replace yours..." I'm starting to suspect the bigger wigs told my local guys to take care of me, but not to say anything. It's been like trying to get a straight answer out of a teenager.

[bigmegina]

Harley called me back today.said they were busy and tech had not revied my vid yet.after oil change with tranny fluid noise has not returned.

[fos41]

Hi Dan_Lockwood,


I saw the post and link you left with the Harley "technical service bulletin" and corporate disclaimer. Do you know of other bulletin(s) applicable to my low miles and in warranty CVO Street Glide that has various drive train noises that the dealer chooses to ignore.

Any information or other bulletins would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Donnie

[Dan_Lockwood]

Don't know of any others.  I just remembered that one and thought I'd link it into the thread.

[r0de_runr]

Putting a real transmission oil in mine fixed the rattle.  BelRey.

[fos41]

Thanks Dan and rOde Runner. I did put in some Amzoil trans oil the bike felt happier and shifter more smoothly, but the noises when shifting and clunky 3 spring clutch issues still exist.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I have Redline Primary oil in my primary and Redline HD Shockproof trans oil in the transmission.

I still get the clunk when shifting from neutral into 1st gear.  I still get a slight clunk when up/down shifting as well.  But as they say, that's probably normal.

Funny thing is that on my '76 Shovelhead FLH, I can shift from neutral into 1st and there is absolutely no clunk.  Maybe the clutch releases more, not sure why no clunk.

[fos41]

Hi Dan,

That is my plan to use Red Line in the primary and Shockproof in the transmission. You are spot on with the mention of older clutches works well. From MY reasearch I  found that my clutch discontent comes from the crappy "new-Harley Davidson 3 spring A & S design clutch"! I got what I got unill I replace it hoping replace it with an older style clutch what works normally!

[Unbalanced]

Has anyone retrofitted their pre 2017 trannies with the 2017 setup?   It is supposed to quiet down the tranny rattle quite a bit.

[ACfixer]

Well it's back guys. 13K and pocket change on mine and on a 1,500 mile trip this last weekend the primary/compensator/whatever noise and shaking started back up after they replaced the transmission 2,000 miles ago. I missed the CVO Western GTG to Fortuna then... well I made it to Fortuna this time, but the noise and shaking are back. Going in the shop tomorrow.

This time the noise/shaking again... not quite as severe but virtually identical in sound and feel. Also... this time it happens even with the clutch pulled in.

[bigmegina]

Well it's back guys. 13K and pocket change on mine and on a 1,500 mile trip this last weekend the primary/compensator/whatever noise and shaking started back up after they replaced the transmission 2,000 miles ago. I missed the CVO Western GTG to Fortuna then... well I made it to Fortuna this time, but the noise and shaking are back. Going in the shop tomorrow.

This time the noise/shaking again... not quite as severe but virtually identical in sound and feel. Also... this time it happens even with the clutch pulled in.

time to trade the bike.that is what I am going to do before the warrenty expires.i would trade for a 2017 but you never buy the first year of any big motor change from Harley.when I bought my new twin cam in 2000,the cam bearings went.they replaced cam and berings under warrenty.worked good so I kept it.traded it for a 2009 roadglide.new frame plus a lot of new changes.bike vibrated more than my 92 solid mount softail.complained to dealer about vibration,he says all Harleys vibrate.i say BS,not this much.put up with it for 2500 miles and traded it for a 2009 SE roadglide.motor was bad like I said,they had a crank runout problem and they knew it.dealer ending up replacing motor,his bike not mine.there are somethings that you cannot fix because the frustration and not being able to trust the bike,always wondering when and if it will break down is not worth the aggravation.you can buy a new 1 way faster than they can fix it.

[MadCVORG]

AC-
  I just started following this thread. Interesting story. Takes a few twists, but at one point you mentioned a loose compensator bolt. I had the same problem in my '11 RUSE. Picked the bike up new at the dealer and rode it home. At about 25 miles, I started hearing what sounded like a lifter tap. Stopped at a gas station and shut off the bike, and heard a loud clunk from the front left side of the motor. Started it back up, and had the same ticking sound. I figured that a new motor was still tight and not yet broken in, and pressed on for home.

When I reached the house, I was surprised to see oil covering my driveway. Turns out the main sprocket/comp bolt was loose, backed itself out, and ground its way through the outer primary. Only the bolt flange kept it in the motor. Had the dealer pick it up; he told me he had seen a couple other bikes with the same problem. He had the system fixed in a couple days, and I decided to address the common motor failures by getting a rebuild. Haven't had any problems since, but all this happened back in Sept. 2011. Kinda wonder why the MoCo let this problem continue.

[ACfixer]

^^^ I think I mentioned they said the compensator bolt was only at 60 lbs instead of the specs (160 maybe?)

To me, 60 lbs is still tight... would that actually cause any problems? I'm kind of at a loss... we'll see what they say about it. The pisser is that I love this bike, and of course I dumped a ton of money getting it to fit and with extra lighting and whatnot so I'm not ready to trade it in that's for sure. I've read all these threads about lifters collapsing and who knows what else and it really makes me squeamish. I've got 13K+ on it in a little over a year and all these other problems seem to be cropping up at 15-20 so I'm holding my breath on all that.

[ACfixer]

UPDATE 10/13/16 - Got the bike back today....

Replaced:

30041-08A Rotor
34091-08 Inner bearing race
9231 Roller bearing
Various gaskets etc.
Covered under warranty.

The bike seems very quiet, again. Not sure what to think...

[bigmegina]

UPDATE 10/13/16 - Got the bike back today....

Replaced:

30041-08A Rotor
34091-08 Inner bearing race
9231 Roller bearing
Various gaskets etc.
Covered under warranty.

The bike seems very quiet, again. Not sure what to think...

glad it works for now.

[ACfixer]

Just a quick update - 165 miles of combo freeway and mountain riding today over Hwy 2 Angeles Crest from Glendale to Wrightwood. The first real riding I've got in since the repair and I got the bike plenty hot, the noise and vibration seem to be completely nonexistent. I certainly can't say I'm happy I've had the troubles, but I so far have to give my service guys a thumbs up assuming they're being square with me. Stay tuned...

Lance

[bigmegina]

Just a quick update - 165 miles of combo freeway and mountain riding today over Hwy 2 Angeles Crest from Glendale to Wrightwood. The first real riding I've got in since the repair and I got the bike plenty hot, the noise and vibration seem to be completely nonexistent. I certainly can't say I'm happy I've had the troubles, but I so far have to give my service guys a thumbs up assuming they're being square with me. Stay tuned...

Lance

glad you got it fixed.6000 miles on mine since I changed the oil and used real tranny fluid and no more noise.

[ACfixer]

glad you got it fixed.6000 miles on mine since I changed the oil and used real tranny fluid and no more noise.

What is this real tranny fluid of which you speak? I'm getting ready to do all my fluids as I do after almost every long trip. Yes, I probably change them "too often" but I don't care.

[bigmegina]

What is this real tranny fluid of which you speak? I'm getting ready to do all my fluids as I do after almost every long trip. Yes, I probably change them "too often" but I don't care.

amsoil severe gear 75-90

[ACfixer]

amsoil severe gear 75-90

What about the other two holes? I'm seriously considering Amsoil 60W in the crankcase.

[bigmegina]

What about the other two holes? I'm seriously considering Amsoil 60W in the crankcase.

I used Harley 20-50 non syn for motor and Harley primary fluid for primary.been working good so far.7400 miles on bike now.

[Para Bellum]

amsoil severe gear 75-90

My AMSOIL rep said they recommend severe gear 75-140 for Harleys; the 75-90 isn't heavy enough.

[LMH]

I have had the same issue since new and it continues when the bike is on the road. Best described as someone shaking a can of loose nuts and bolts.. Been back several times to the dealer. Took it in for the 5000 mile service with the same complaint but a different dealer to see if a new set of eyes and ears would help. This dealer seemed better but the 'company" told him the usual excuses. This in spite of being told the fixes they suggest and the "normal" noise referenced in the bulletin is not solving the issue.
They also found some moisture in my oil during the service. The factory tried to say it comes from not going on long enough rides with the bike. When I mentioned the 4950 miles on the bike were put on  during one California, Oregon and Nevada ride. They then suggested perhaps i live to close to the ocean ( even the dealer scoffed at that). Latest is to "watch it" closely and change the oil frequently . 35 years owning Harley Davidson. Maybe about 12 different HD bikes and never had such BS . So sorry I stepped up to a CVO. Almost left the bike there I was so disgusted.
Service Mgr is a good guy and he said he is documenting everything and he will do the oil changes for the cost of a filter so i am going to try it.
I'm not optimistic it will improve until the motor goes South and they step up or I can unload the bike on a new owner who likes the sound of a can of nuts and bolts rattling in your ear.

[Para Bellum]

I'm not optimistic it will improve until the motor goes South and they step up or I can unload the bike on a new owner who likes the sound of a can of nuts and bolts rattling in your ear.

Lemon law candidate?

[Texas 103]

My AMSOIL rep said they recommend severe gear 75-140 for Harleys; the 75-90 isn't heavy enough.

Redline is 75-250. going to try some Spectro  Platinum 6 speed oil just for the hell of it..  i started another thread on this subject and it's getting a little more interesting, the more people I talk to about it..

Have some ideas I'm going to try for some winter garage therapy.If I'm right it will be a well spent $350.  Of course after we figure this out..HD will come out with a kit as " customer enhancement" solution to the intermittent problem. Right! ... ..lol

[LMH]

I have had the same issue since new and it continues when the bike is on the road. Best described as someone shaking a can of loose nuts and bolts.. Been back several times to the dealer. Took it in for the 5000 mile service with the same complaint but a different dealer to see if a new set of eyes and ears would help. This dealer seemed better but the 'company" told him the usual excuses. This in spite of being told the fixes they suggest and the "normal" noise referenced in the bulletin is not solving the issue.
They also found some moisture in my oil during the service. The factory tried to say it comes from not going on long enough rides with the bike. When I mentioned the 4950 miles on the bike were put on  during one California, Oregon and Nevada ride. They then suggested perhaps i live to close to the ocean ( even the dealer scoffed at that). Latest is to "watch it" closely and change the oil frequently . 35 years owning Harley Davidson. Maybe about 12 different HD bikes and never had such BS . So sorry I stepped up to a CVO. Almost left the bike there I was so disgusted.
Service Mgr is a good guy and he said he is documenting everything and he will do the oil changes for the cost of a filter so i am going to try it.
I'm not optimistic it will improve until the motor goes South and they step up or I can unload the bike on a new owner who likes the sound of a can of nuts and bolts rattling in your ear.

Oh and I asked about changing out to a different oil etc and was told by my local dealer they would not stand by the warranty if I used any of those other lubricants suggested.

[LMH]

Lemon law candidate?

Have no idea how that works but if I have to bank roll it it's a non starter. I'll trade it to a dealer and let them warranty it for the next owner. Won't be a CVO that is for sure.

[fastfreddy]

I dropped mine off two days ago to have this repair/noise looked at. Figured it being November they can have it till they figure it out will report back with their findings

[Texas 103]

Oh and I asked about changing out to a different oil etc and was told by my local dealer they would not stand by the warranty if I used any of those other lubricants suggested.

Nope,! Ain't buyin that one ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

[Texas 103]

I dropped mine off two days ago to have this repair/noise looked at. Figured it being November they can have it till they figure it out will report back with their findings

We will get it figured out! My bet is that they will show you the bulletin and..you know the  rest of the story.. Probably in Dec. sometime I'm going to pull the gear set out of mine and see if my idea will work regarding '17 scissor gear. It's about $60  and replacing the trap door with a Jim's . About $ 350 . Guess we'll see what we can see   

Baker has a solution also, their trap door and smooth  shift kit.  about $650 or so.   

[Para Bellum]

Have no idea how that works but if I have to bank roll it it's a non starter. I'll trade it to a dealer and let them warranty it for the next owner. Won't be a CVO that is for sure.

I checked; lemon law doesn't cover motorcycles in CA.

[Unbalanced]

We will get it figured out! My bet is that they will show you the bulletin and..you know the  rest of the story.. Probably in Dec. sometime I'm going to pull the gear set out of mine and see if my idea will work regarding '17 scissor gear. It's about $60  and replacing the trap door with a Jim's . About $ 350 . Guess we'll see what we can see   

Baker has a solution also, their trap door and smooth  shift kit.  about $650 or so.

Running their street door on my 11

[skycat]

  Baker has a solution also, their trap door and smooth  shift kit.  about $650 or so.
 [/quote]

I went the Baker way last year with there Reverse kit, No gear noise and it shifts better.
Well worth a look, Hey and no more pushing the bike when you get stuck..lol 

[LMH]

I checked; lemon law doesn't cover motorcycles in CA.

I checked as well and from what I read it does cover motorcycles in Ca. Either way that is a long process at my age I probably wouldn't go down that road. May have to just take my losses and move on. Life is to short in my opinion.
Dealer recommended frequent oil changes but I may not do that that as i think that will only drag out the inevitable by draining the oil that has water in it and replacing it with fresh oil. By going the full 5000 miles perhaps the bike will have a complete failure making it easier to get the motor company to fix the problem with a new motor. It appears ,as i was told, HD does not fix bikes that are going to break . Only bikes that are broken as one Service Manager told me.

[fastfreddy]

We will get it figured out! My bet is that they will show you the bulletin and..you know the  rest of the story.. Probably in Dec. sometime I'm going to pull the gear set out of mine and see if my idea will work regarding '17 scissor gear. It's about $60  and replacing the trap door with a Jim's . About $ 350 . Guess we'll see what we can see   

Baker has a solution also, their trap door and smooth  shift kit.  about $650 or so.

i told them that i read the bullchitetin and that if only some of the six speed trans make this noise....get me one that dont make noise...simple

[ACfixer]

The lemon law DOES apply to motorcycles in California provided they are registered for street use.

My dealer although being very helpful thusfar has seemingly been keen to this. I have never mentioned it of course and each time I bring it in I make sure they put it in writing for me the reason for my visit. So far each time has been a different solution and they are avoiding returning any used parts. This may just be the cynic in me, but it looks like they are carefully stepping around the lemon law.  I think it has to be three times for the same problem? So far I've got "neutral rattle/no problem", then a new trans, then the latest was the bearings and such... I really have no idea if they are screwing with me or not, but my dealer has been so darn nice and on the ball when it comes to fixing it I just don't feel the need to push it further yet.

LMH, I am sorry to hear of your troubles but if you do go the lemon law route it's not all that difficult and I'm pretty sure there are lawyers that take it and get paid from the other end when successful. It worked that way when a friend got her Suburban replaced, and if you need it I'll be happy to ask her the attorney's name should you decide to go that route. Like I say, I'm not there yet but it won't take too much more to get me to that point and I'll push the issue if it comes down to it.

The bottom line is I really like the bike, and I've dumped some money into it so I'd really just like to ride it without further ado. Fingers crossed.

[Para Bellum]

Have no idea how that works but if I have to bank roll it it's a non starter. I'll trade it to a dealer and let them warranty it for the next owner. Won't be a CVO that is for sure.

This is from the CA civil code (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1792-1795.8) that covers lemons:
"1794.   (d) If the buyer prevails in an action under this section, the
buyer shall be allowed by the court to recover as part of the
judgment a sum equal to the aggregate amount of costs and expenses,
including attorney's fees based on actual time expended, determined
by the court to have been reasonably incurred by the buyer in
connection with the commencement and prosecution of such action.

[Dan_Lockwood]

So far each time has been a different solution and they are avoiding returning any used parts.

When I was a service manager years ago in MI for a Pontiac/Chevy dealership, we were not able to give the customer parts that were replaced under warranty, but by law, we were required to show them the parts if they asked to see them.

[ACfixer]

When I was a service manager years ago in MI for a Pontiac/Chevy dealership, we were not able to give the customer parts that were replaced under warranty, but by law, we were required to show them the parts if they asked to see them.

Yeah I understand having to send the parts back to the MoCo if requested, but they avoided showing them to me last time Dan. The time with the trans they DID show me the faulty parts, which makes me wonder... but I'm a cynic by nature and sometimes it's probably best I just let it go.

[Texas 103]

Yeah I understand having to send the parts back to the MoCo if requested, but they avoided showing them to me last time Dan. The time with the trans they DID show me the faulty parts, which makes me wonder... but I'm a cynic by nature and sometimes it's probably best I just let it go.

Stay tuned, I have a " scissor gear" gear coming from  '17. Supposedly that's what they did to " cure it"  We'll see. If I get it next week, I'll start on it.  Realize that's not a solution for everyone. But for about $100 in parts it's worth a shot to me. Probably going to learn a hell of lot more about transmissions than I really wanted to. What the hell , it will keep me out of the Asian massage parlors..lol

[ACfixer]

^^^ Absolutely, $100 is insignificant in the overall scheme of things. Please keep us updated.

[LMH]

The lemon law DOES apply to motorcycles in California provided they are registered for street use.

My dealer although being very helpful thusfar has seemingly been keen to this. I have never mentioned it of course and each time I bring it in I make sure they put it in writing for me the reason for my visit. So far each time has been a different solution and they are avoiding returning any used parts. This may just be the cynic in me, but it looks like they are carefully stepping around the lemon law.  I think it has to be three times for the same problem? So far I've got "neutral rattle/no problem", then a new trans, then the latest was the bearings and such... I really have no idea if they are screwing with me or not, but my dealer has been so darn nice and on the ball when it comes to fixing it I just don't feel the need to push it further yet.

LMH, I am sorry to hear of your troubles but if you do go the lemon law route it's not all that difficult and I'm pretty sure there are lawyers that take it and get paid from the other end when successful. It worked that way when a friend got her Suburban replaced, and if you need it I'll be happy to ask her the attorney's name should you decide to go that route. Like I say, I'm not there yet but it won't take too much more to get me to that point and I'll push the issue if it comes down to it.

The bottom line is I really like the bike, and I've dumped some money into it so I'd really just like to ride it without further ado. Fingers crossed.

Thanks. I am aware it is covered in Cal by the lemon law. Absolutely last resort and not something I want.
I'm with you on the hoping for the best . I have additional money in mine and just want to ride it and enjoy it. Just a shame I have seen so many of those 110's have issues for so long and for the company to put their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen is frustrating.

[r0de_runr]

I'm no expert.
I've posted in this thread before.
I have not read all the posts in this thread.

I've only owned 4 Harleys: a 2007 Ultra, a 2009 Ultra, a 2013 Road Glide Ultra, and a 2012 CVO Street Glide.

The 2007 rattled really bad, and the fix was a new "cush drive" hub for the rear end, called an IDS. At my expense.  Fixed the issue.

The 2009 never rattled.

The 2013 didn't rattle, but my buddy who purchased a 2013 Street Glide (non-CVO) had the rattle.  Put in a quart of walmart 75-W-something and it went away.

My 2012 Rattled.  I bought it used with less than 5000 miles on it, two years old.  I put Valvoline 75Wsomething in it and it got quiet.  I'm now running BelRay transmission lube that I purchased at a Harley dealer.  Nearly 30,000 rattle free miles.

There is another thing, I do not tighten my belt at tire changes.  I've marked my rear fork (swing arm) after adjusting the tension at the first tire change.  The belt is always set back to the same place.  I learned this from my chain bike days.  Chains and sprockets wore out from always taking up the slack just a bit more than needed.  Once I got my FJ1100, I started setting the chain by marks on the swing arm, and never needed to replace the chain again.

I'm not saying this is a cure, I'm saying these are relatively painless things to try.  As for non-HD lubricants voiding the warranty, we all know that is crap.

I'm just adding this to try to give an alternative to hating your CVO. I really like mine, valve noise and all. My sympathies to all who are having problems.

Ride Safe

[fastfreddy]

ya, i  have tried changing the trans oil, amsoil Vtwin trans oil, HD formula stuff, and Spectro 95w, in that order starting at 130 miles on the bike. rattle noise never changed (better or worse) my big issue is with the dealer... i know i can live with this noise and probably never have a break down related to what ever is causing this noise....but they told me it would go away after it got broke in... so i went back a week later and asked how many miles dose it take to break in the tranny, yes i know all this stuff but now its a game for me, he tells me a  1000 miles. so i drag him out to the bike and start it, rattle rattle rattle, i say to him bike has 1160 miles on it  now what? he tells me put some more miles on it and see what happens, so i tell him no problem, ill drop it off in a couple months, 9100 miles on it. ball in their court now, im not mad and i realy like this bike but it will be traded when the next COV RGU comes along, 2018 i hope. till then they can have it till the weather in iowa gets better  also will add that my 13 RGC has never made this noise and i have beat the snot out of it and lost a out put shaft bearing @26k miles, that was easy for them to find and fix no other issues with that trans @49k now. my 11 RGC non CVO no noise at all with that bike

[LMH]

Thanks. I am aware it is covered in Cal by the lemon law. Absolutely last resort and not something I want.
I'm with you on the hoping for the best . I have additional money in mine and just want to ride it and enjoy it. Just a shame I have seen so many of those 110's have issues for so long and for the company to put their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen is frustrating.

The latest drama with my 16 Limited CVO. Took it to another dealer for the 5K service along with the usual complaint about the rattle and vibration. Good dealer and good service manager I have dealt with before. They did the service went through the usual Company bulletin about neutral rattle etc. Then he tells me he called HD for review and let them know they found moisture and water in my oil. The reply from the Company even surprised him. The customer service rep asked him if I lived near the ocean or water or perhaps wash my bike to much. Also asked if i don't ride it enough and just start it and turn it off in my garage. Even dealer was surprised. I reminded both he and Milwaukee i did not notice that you could not own the bike near the water as it will develop problems as well as staying out of the rain on it ( pure BS).He told me we would change the oil every 2000 miles and he would pay for the labor and oil if i pay for the filter and he will document and watch it for further issues.
I called Milwaukee and in my calmest of voices told them this is ridiculous. I am not riding that bike any further from home than a short cab ride home. I almost refused to pick the bike up from the dealer but I really wanted to enjoy my new bike .
Two weeks later i received a call from Milwaukee and they are sending a rep out to look at my bike ( whatever that means).
Currently waiting for the call confirming the date so i can drop it off at the dealer.   
Not sure what is worse having all these problems with the bike or the crap I take from my wife over my 40K motorcycle that i had to have instead of the perfectly good 2014 Limited ( which she loved) i sold to get it.

[bogosh717]

I need some help. I have an 07 cvo ultra. The primary is making a loud noise in neutral. When I pull the clutch lever and put the bike in gear the noise goes away. Anyone have any ideas ?
1: compensator ?
2: inner bearing ?

[LMH]

I need some help. I have an 07 cvo ultra. The primary is making a loud noise in neutral. When I pull the clutch lever and put the bike in gear the noise goes away. Anyone have any ideas ?
1: compensator ?
2: inner bearing ?

According to Harley Davidson it's supposed to sound that way....
I believe they have produced a bulletin to encompass that and it's called Neutral rattle. There problem solved....

Join the club.

[Dan_Lockwood]

According to Harley Davidson it's supposed to sound that way....
I believe they have produced a bulletin to encompass that and it's called Neutral rattle. There problem solved....

Join the club.

All kidding aside, he has an '07 and is just now complaining about it, so something must have changed to bring up the complaint at this time.

As I remember on my '08 SERK, I didn't have any rattle in neutral nor do I have any rattle in neutral on my '09 SERG.

[bogosh717]

That's why I tihink it maybe the inner bearing. I think I'll be pulling the primary cover off and checking the tensioner too. It just seems to be getting louder. I just changed the exhaust so maybe I hear it more. It doesn't sound like rattle is sounds more metallic.  I just picked this bike up last year and it's been noisy since I got it. I put redline in the primary but it didn't quiet it down at all.

[LMH]

I think it is there in the 110 and some folks just live with it and some it bothers. I suspect it may or may not result in further damage as time goes on. If you can live with the "noise" and rattling of metal like a coffee can with nuts and bolts being shaken in your ear then it's a wonderful bike and great looking but for some it's a problem.  I have been around these 110's since they came out and well over 90% of those i have been around have had multiple engines warrantied by Harley. That includes a 2013 that got 1000 miles from the dealer and stopped running leaving the hotel parking lot.That owner received a new motor and sold the bike 6 months later. I fell for the dealer story "it's better now and we fixed the problem" and bought my 2016. My bad and I'm dealing with it best i can. And yes HD fixed their bikes and if it gives you plenty of time to sit in dealerships all over the country and buy a tee-shirt but I wanted more from the experience.
For some folks  they ride it for a few years and then sell them. I suspect many never go down the 110 road again. I remain optimistic the new engine design is better. Always been a big fan of the HD motorcycle and still am . But the 110 was a mistake in my opinion and i think HD knows it. I have been amazed the amount of CYA that goes on when dealing with Milwaukee and the dealer. Some will even tell you they are restricted in what they can put on paper so they are very careful when servicing the bike in what they report. If you are lucky and have a long term relationship with a service person they will verbally tell you they can't do or say certain things at risk of loosing their job so they don't and i understand their situation. Perhaps one day someone will step up and be the "whistle blower" on HD and those of us who experienced the problem will nod our collective heads and smile.For many i suspect it's just easier to sell the bike and move on rather than go through the months and months of dealer visits and phone calls from Wisconsin.
By the way never had a problem with my 2014 103. Ran good and met all my needs. Hind sight is 20/20.

Rant over.

Best of luck to those trying to navigate the issue.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I've had two 110", an '08 and my current '09.

I've had zero issues with them with warranty except for chrome on a front wheel and the very poor fitting seat on the '09 SERG.  I've upgraded my '09 to the 30t drive sprocket and I did the swingarm mod with the gussets.  That's the best bang for my buck still on the bike.  I'm still on my original comp with the '09 and when I took it out for the 30t upgrade, it had basically zero wear on the ramps and flat mating surfaces.

I guess some have issues and some don't, I'm just lucky I guess.  Knock on wood...

[LMH]

I've had two 110", an '08 and my current '09.

I've had zero issues with them with warranty except for chrome on a front wheel and the very poor fitting seat on the '09 SERG.  I've upgraded my '09 to the 30t drive sprocket and I did the swingarm mod with the gussets.  That's the best bang for my buck still on the bike.  I'm still on my original comp with the '09 and when I took it out for the 30t upgrade, it had basically zero wear on the ramps and flat mating surfaces.

I guess some have issues and some don't, I'm just lucky I guess.  Knock on wood...

My first 110 . However my 10th HD and none of them had issues so I was lucky as well. Guess my luck ran out with this one. It's all good . I was just in the garage wiping it down and admiring what a good looking bike it is. Looks great sitting in the garage . Just can't stand to fire it up and listen to it.
Perhaps HD will check it out and agree to fix it or replace it and make it all go away. We will see.
Safe riding.