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[Twolanerider]

Week and a half or so ago everyone had to suffer through my laments when the trans in the red bike shelled.  All the parts and tools arrived this past Thursday but each time I'd expected to tear it apart something else came up.

Finished all I had to do this evening about 10:30 and curiosity got the best of me.  So put everything away then started tearing the bike apart.  It was unexpectedly bad.  I was really shocked by the condition. 

Brief review was that it had not been making any noise.  It had just made the 2500+ trip back and forth to York, PA without incident; pulling the trailer at interstate speeds.  Had run around here briefly after returning then one afternoon cruising a county road easily in 4th at about 45 it suddenly screeched for a second and completely locked up.

With the engine off I could shift it between 2-3-4.  It would roll in 2 and 3.  Still locked up in 4th.  Where it died was not immediately accessible by trailer so it went noisily in 2nd about 3/8 mile to the trailer and then from the trailer in to the garage upon getting it home.

Knew it was going to be bad when this was on the drain plug right after getting it home:

[Twolanerider]

Knew it was going to be really bad when this was under the top cover:

[Twolanerider]

But I didn't really expect it to look like this.  Not with so few turns on it after the sudden failure. 

[Twolanerider]

Inner cage from the main shaft bearing.

[Twolanerider]

More generic ugliness after it had been sprayed down with brake cleaner to get a better look.

[Twolanerider]

Have never worked inside of one of these little gear boxes before.  But have been inside enough automotive gear boxes to be just amazed by the way it ran and failed in comparison to gears like this:

[Twolanerider]

More general view:

[Twolanerider]

Last one:

[Twolanerider]

Had a couple of unexpected surprises during the disassembly.  Unexpected beyond the degree of damage to the tranny.

First off need to say that a thorough inspection of the case has it just fine.  So the potential risk of getting the gear set paid off.  No need for an entire transmission.

The first minor surprise was found upon removing the shift drum.  One of the four dowels was missing.  When the dealer did the original six speed install I assumed they just dropped it and didn't bother with replacing.  Annoying to find the carelessness later but not really anything to worry about at this point.

After getting it all gutted and starting to clean out the case I was for a time not sure if I'd have to pull the oil pan or not.  The drain hole was so filled with bearing needles and other debris that I couldn't get it opened up. Fluids would run through of course.  But material were jammed in enough that a magnet wouldn't pull them out.  They were lodged just enough they didn't easily work out.

Half an hour of screwing with it finally got things turned, bent or moved enough they would come out.  All sorts of bearing chunks and shavings and shrapnel.  The very bottom piece, however; the one that wouldn't go out the bottom but was plugging all the crap from the top from going on down?  The dowel...  From the shift drum.

It was not marked up at all.  It had not gone through the transmission.  When the damn dealer did the install with all the discounts and winter specials that had me thinking it was worthwhile to actually let them do a job they dropped the dowel while working on the case.  And it had been in the drain hole ever since.  Jackasses.

But damn what an ugly gear set.....

[Twolanerider]

A couple of cudo before I go to bed and forget them also.  The first is actually to Harley.  No chit.

We're all used to the various accessory parts, kits or bits that are by no means task complete.  Things you get home and, if you hadn't yet been conditioned to check first, would have you returning to the dealership to get pieces necessary to the task that weren't with the package (logic notwithstanding).

This transmission "Super Kit" appears to be pretty damned complete.  After seeing how ugly this was combined with being unfamiliar with the bowels of this gear box I checked the parts list and breakdown closely.  Unless I'm missing something this really is a complete kit.  All the way down to snap rings and o-rings.  The only thing one might get separately is one of those significantly over priced outer primary gaskets Harley is so proud of.  Aside from that it looks to be all inclusive.

The other good word is to a vendor I'd not used before.  George from George's Garage at http://www.georges-garage.com .  Appears to be only a specialty tool vendor.  Had heard good things about him prior and went there for tools I'd not had reason to need before.

Called him Monday.  George himself answered the phone.  Told him I was replacing a tranny gear set and asked him to send whatever tools were required to the task.  He responded saying there were a couple of tranny tools I'd not need.  He said what they were.  Explained why they wouldn't be needed (a shaft seal installer, for example, because the gear set comes with the seal already installed).  So he could've easily sold me more than I needed.  He mailed the pieces I did get the same day.  They got here Thursday.  And they are pretty tools.

I appreciate nice machine work and effective form and function.  These are all those things.  And George was a heluva nice guy to talk to too.  Now just hope I figure out how to use the rest of them putting all this mess back together tomorrow or Tuesday.... 

[07 CVO]

2Lane,

That is some serious damage, it amazes me how fast the gears tear up, with no real advance notice.

Mark

[DCFIREMANN]

Don like I told you before you were very lucky.

It looks pretty bad. I am wondering if the dealer dropping the dowel and it was blocking the drain maybe you got a buildup of metal that kept recycling in the trannie and causing the wear to a point of complete failure. Just a thought.

If you run into any problems with the install I am only a phone call away.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

Don like I told you before you were very lucky.

It looks pretty bad. I am wondering if the dealer dropping the dowel and it was blocking the drain maybe you got a buildup of metal that kept recycling in the trannie and causing the wear to a point of complete failure. Just a thought.

If you run into any problems with the install I am only a phone call away.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks Mike.  The disassembly was uneventful.  Hopefully the reassembly will be as well.

The regular fluid changes haven't had any even small shavings in them.  I don't think the opened dowel would have stopped everything.  And even though the gears look like they've got hundreds of miles of running in no lubricant at all it was never noisy up until the moment it failed.  So truth be told I don't have a clue what happened, or why.

I honestly don't think the dowel in the drain plug was a contributing factor.  But I can't say for sure.  If it had been churning debris and slowly eating itself I'd have expected a noisy gear box though.  There are areas on some of the gears that aren't viewable in photos that are worse then what can be seen here.  You just can't imagine a gear box in any process of that kind of self destruction still staying quite.  On the other hand I can't imagine this box eating itself that badly in either the sudden failure or the short crippled run back to the trailer afterwards.

It's expensive.  It's ugly.  But it's kinda cool to look at .

[Hugh Janis]

It's ugly.  But it's kinda cool to look at .

Like the freak show at the county fair.  I get it now.  You're repulsed but can't look away.

I'm glad the gear swap is working out now.  I've got a feeling you'll be riding with the radio off for a while.

[Chief]

That's some ugly chit there man.

good luck with the rebuild.

[Capo]

Thanks Mike.  The disassembly was uneventful.  Hopefully the reassembly will be as well.

The regular fluid changes haven't had any even small shavings in them.  I don't think the opened dowel would have stopped everything.  And even though the gears look like they've got hundreds of miles of running in no lubricant at all it was never noisy up until the moment it failed.  So truth be told I don't have a clue what happened, or why.

I honestly don't think the dowel in the drain plug was a contributing factor.  But I can't say for sure.  If it had been churning debris and slowly eating itself I'd have expected a noisy gear box though.  There are areas on some of the gears that aren't viewable in photos that are worse then what can be seen here.  You just can't imagine a gear box in any process of that kind of self destruction still staying quite.  On the other hand I can't imagine this box eating itself that badly in either the sudden failure or the short crippled run back to the trailer afterwards.

It's expensive.  It's ugly.  But it's kinda cool to look at .

Don,
sounds like you are lucky you didn't go down when that bad boy locked up? Would this mess be covered by a Moco extendo warranty?
Ride Safe!

[skreminegul07]

Glad you didn't lock up, too.  Sort of fortunate that you made the York run and it died close to home.  The silver lining to the story.  That's what Prozac will do for you.
That was a dealer 6 speed upgrade I believe you said.  How many miles?
What lubricant were you running?

[Boatman]

Don-

If I was just looking at the gearset with no explanation, I would say no lubricant.  But we know that isn't the case.  Possibly a needle bearing coming apart started the whole problem?   

Regarding George's Garage, Jim (Hd-dude) put me on to him when I did my cams 2 years ago.  Also highly recommend George.  George gave me 10% off when I mentioned CVOHarley per Jim back then.  Does he still do it?

Good luck with the install.

Bob

[sadunbar]

When I did my motor rebuild, I bought a few specialty tools from George of George's Garage.  I told him about the site.  He gave me a 10% discount and also told me what tools I did and didn't need to do the build...  Very friendly and helpful...   

[hd-dude]

That's some serious shrapnel in there Don!. Good luck on the resurrection. George is a great guy for sure. Most of the motor, tranny, wheel bearing tools I use in the shop almost daily are from him. Good quality stuff.

[Twolanerider]

Glad you didn't lock up, too.  Sort of fortunate that you made the York run and it died close to home.  The silver lining to the story.  That's what Prozac will do for you.
That was a dealer 6 speed upgrade I believe you said.  How many miles?
What lubricant were you running?

Yes, it was a dealer installation.  Just about the only thing the dealer has ever done to it.  I should have known better too.  It was a combination of a 25% parts and labor winter special and another 20% off coupon I had as a door prize kind of thing.  So the dealer would do the whole job for about $1400.00. 

I say "should have known better" but their work didn't contribute to this.  The clearancing work in the case is a bit sloppy (ok, a lot sloppy in one place).  But I've already cleaned it up.  And the missing dowel was annoying but I don't believe it to be contributory here.  It's just one of those things...

The install was about 20k miles old.  Oil was the Redline Heavy.  Last change prior to the failure was about 3000 miles before the failure.  Change intervals had been 5k miles.

[Twolanerider]

Don,
sounds like you are licky you didn't go down when that bad boy locked up? Would this mess be covered by a Moco extendo warranty?
Ride Safe!

An extended warranty wouldn't.  The factory warranty will cover those things added at the time of purchase.  The extended warranty provider is not obligated to do the same. 

The accessory packages vary from 30 to 90 days to a year.  I honestly don't even know what warranty the gear set carries.  But it would be its accessory warranty as an after the fact installation.  This particular install was beyond even a year.  So no consideration of warranty coverage here.

[Twolanerider]

George gave me 10% off when I mentioned CVOHarley per Jim back then.  Does he still do it?

Thanks Bob.  And, dammit, it never occurred to me to ask George or mention the CVO site.  I was just a customer calling up buying tools.  So no discount.  My bad.

[Twolanerider]

That's some serious shrapnel in there Don!. Good luck on the resurrection. George is a great guy for sure. Most of the motor, tranny, wheel bearing tools I use in the shop almost daily are from him. Good quality stuff.

Thanks Jim.  And that's what I'm seeing on these tools too.  Very nice pieces.  Have three various bearing pullers and other bits in the tool box that are home made or re-made variants of other more generic pullers.  His items are nice enough it's tempting to break down and get the good stuff!

[Twolanerider]

It was too late last night to do anything more then be slightly amazed at how badly that gear set was damaged.  Before getting started on other things this morning, however, went after it with a closer focus.  Was hoping to find some obvious initial failure.  Unfortunately I'll never be on "CSI Transmission" and become wealthy from TV residuals.  Just can't find it.  Don't know and won't know what caused it.

[porthole]

I'll start by saying - never been in one of these gearboxes either.

But, it is just a gearbox.

This picture --- I would venture to say the gears have been having a problem for a while. Unless the gearbox is abused, I can't see a reason for the almost "instant failure".

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23153.0;attach=64973;image

Had you had the Syn 3 oil in it you probably would have heard it, having gear oil in the case very likely could have masked the noise.

You said you never had metal during the oil changes  - how about the pretty metal flake in the drain pain, ever look closely at it?

Every time I change the trans oil (same as engine) I get nothing on the magnet but I can see it in the oil.

[porthole]

one of those significantly over priced outer primary gaskets Harley is so proud of.

Your not kidding, I just got one 2 weeks ago to install the auto chain tensioner kit.

This transmission "Super Kit" appears to be pretty damned complete.

What is this "super kit"?

[Twolanerider]

I'll start by saying - never been in one of these gearboxes either.

But, it is just a gearbox.

This picture --- I would venture to say the gears have been having a problem for a while. Unless the gearbox is abused, I can't see a reason for the almost "instant failure".

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23153.0;attach=64973;image

Had you had the Syn 3 oil in it you probably would have heard it, having gear oil in the case very likely could have masked the noise.

You said you never had metal during the oil changes  - how about the pretty metal flake in the drain pain, ever look closely at it?

Every time I change the trans oil (same as engine) I get nothing on the magnet but I can see it in the oil.

Completely agree Duane.  Gears is gears.  Nothing magic here.  Not even any places where one had to hold his mouth right for the disassembly.

I also agree this thing looks like long term abuse and/or damage.  But it really hadn't had any.  And I never saw anything on the drain plug's magnet and only the finest and fewest filings in the fluid.

As ugly as the shrapnel broke off the gears are, however, they were not in and of themselves the lock up failure.  Were something else not locked up they would still turn.  With a bountiful clatter.  But they'd turn.

Readily admit this thing really makes very little sense to me.  I can't really square the circle that is its current condition compared to what had been its behavior on the street.  So in the end I'll just make sure everything is very very clean inside, put all the pretty new parts in, do a very short service interval after the reassembly, and then ride it.

[Twolanerider]

What is this "super kit"?

I was amused when I read that.  Harley seemed rather proud of themselves.  The label on the outside of the box gave the Harley part number and the description.  It was the Six Speed Super Kit .  I hope Harley understands that, while being praised, it's still a bit of damning with faint praise to be lauded for actually having everything in a box that really should be there anyway (except the $30 primary gasket).

[porthole]

I also agree this thing looks like long term abuse and/or damage.  But it really hadn't had any.  And I never saw anything on the drain plug's magnet and only the finest and fewest filings in the fluid.

Wasn't suggesting that you abused it, but I'm sure you already know I wasn't.

My next best guess is just a poor casting of the gears that eventually did what they did, and having quality gear oil in the case kept it together longer.

Just think, if you had the Syn 3 junk we probably would have been making arrangements to get the bike back from York!

18+ years as a "A" tech specializing in engines - transmissions (manual and auto)- and rear axles I have seen a lot of failures, many just like yours and quite a few with absolutely no plausible explanation. Chit happens.

[sportygordy]

I've had some problems with my 08 UC locking up in first gear. I have to rock the bike to get it out. It happens when i stop the motor in first gear an allow it to sit. The dealer said my problem is killing the motor in first gear. Never had this problems with any of last 3 Harleys or my wifes current 04. Bottom line is, they wont fess up; they say it's me creating the problem. I say BS!!!

[Ghost Rider]

I've had some problems with my 08 UC locking up in first gear. I have to rock the bike to get it out. It happens when i stop the motor in first gear an allow it to sit. The dealer said my problem is killing the motor in first gear. Never had this problems with any of last 3 Harleys or my wifes current 04. Bottom line is, they wont fess up; they say it's me creating the problem. I say BS!!!

What are they suggesting, that you shift the bike into 6th before shutting off the engine?

[Twolanerider]

My next best guess is just a poor casting of the gears that eventually did what they did, and having quality gear oil in the case kept it together longer.

Just think, if you had the Syn 3 junk we probably would have been making arrangements to get the bike back from York!

18+ years as a "A" tech specializing in engines - transmissions (manual and auto)- and rear axles I have seen a lot of failures, many just like yours and quite a few with absolutely no plausible explanation. Chit happens.

Yes it does.  Would've been nice to find an obvious failure.  But not going to dwell on it either (bike doesn't have points {ignition humor }]).

Have had some gear boxes from cars I had on the track look like this after going in circles a few too many times.  But at least they had the courtesy of getting noisy.  I'm buying your thesis of super fine Redline.  Because I want to !

I'm even extending the thesis to the following:

Good lube and bad gears went 20K miles quietly.

This time have good gears.

Good gears and good grease---it'll run forever !

[Banana man]

Are you going back with a Harley gearset or something different?

When I rode your bike I initially had a problem with it not wanting to
shift because of the clutch not working properly.At one point I could
not get it to shift up from 3rd to 4th. The more I rode it the better it
seemed to get. Could this have anything to do with your failure?

Just trying to think of anything that might be considered a cause for
failure.

Sorry about your trouble, but I know when you fix it that it will be
better than new because you will have a lot more attention to
detail than a tech would or the factory ASSembly line worker
would.  Good luck with your build.

                                   Mark

[Twolanerider]

Are you going back with a Harley gearset or something different?

When I rode your bike I initially had a problem with it not wanting to
shift because of the clutch not working properly.At one point I could
not get it to shift up from 3rd to 4th. The more I rode it the better it
seemed to get. Could this have anything to do with your failure?

Just trying to think of anything that might be considered a cause for
failure.

Sorry about your trouble, but I know when you fix it that it will be
better than new because you will have a lot more attention to
detail than a tech would or the factory ASSembly line worker
would.  Good luck with your build.

                                   Mark

Mark, you were on it almost immediately after that new Barnett clutch got installed.  It had a couple of issues.  It was straightened out shortly thereafter.  That was separate from what happened here though.  Shifted like a dream after that.

[RedDevil]

Don,
Damn Bro, I don't think I've ever seen something implode like that without any forewarning.    Hopefully, the install will be as uneventful as the disassembly and you'll be back up and riding quick like.  This may be one of those things you'll never really find out how it happened, and with, like you said, a good gear set and good oil, it'll never happen to you again. 

   

[SPIDERMAN]

I suppose it's too late it the game to mention that where I in your shoes, the only trans that would find it's way into the bike would be a Baker DD6. Hell I'd even spring for a polished case. Cost - - hell yeah, but you only do it once.  It'd put the BOMB in your Cherry Bomb and would not, repeat would not do what your Screamin Eagle trans did - - - - ever.

B B

[Twolanerider]

I suppose it's too late it the game to mention that where I in your shoes, the only trans that would find it's way into the bike would be a Baker DD6. Hell I'd even spring for a polished case. Cost - - hell yeah, but you only do it once.  It'd put the BOMB in your Cherry Bomb and would not, repeat would not do what your Screamin Eagle trans did - - - - ever.

B B

That really was my primary intention Brian.  Circumstances worked against it. 

Could not use the Baker gear set because of the clearancing done in this case.  Physically would not install.

No dealer I spoke with had a Baker transmission in stock.  I called several.  All said some variation of three to six weeks.  Apparently Baker doesn't fill vendor orders quickly.

Could buy directly from Baker with a promise of "maybe" ten days to two weeks for delivery.  But their price was $3500.  Much MUCH more then that quoted by some of the dealers.  I got an SE gear set for $1330 and didn't have to wait.  So the time difference compounded by the price difference pushed me the way I've gone.

I'd like to have put in the Baker.  It just didn't work out that way.  Am thinking, however, that to further rationalize the purchase of the various transmission tools I'll use them again this fall or winter and put a Baker gear set in the Road Glide.

[CVOJOE]

Is it too late to request that you save the tranny drain plug with the shavings and maybe have it encased in plastic so that it can be used as a centerpiece to the Annual CVO golf tournament trophy? The winner of this amazing event in Sedona specifically requested it and we can make it a perpetual trophy of sorts that will easily fit in a saddle bag.

What you say ?

Joe

[Twolanerider]

Is it too late to request that you save the tranny drain plug with the shavings and maybe have it encased in plastic so that it can be used as a centerpiece to the Annual CVO golf tournament trophy? The winner of this amazing event in Sedona specifically requested it and we can make it a perpetual trophy of sorts that will easily fit in a saddle bag.

What you say ?

Joe

Couple of others had asked for that also ?  Unfortunately it'd already been cleaned off. There will be lots of shavings in the oil drain container though.  So I guess it could be recreated ?










(sickos!!)

[DavidB]

Inner cage from the main shaft bearing.

Is this the bearing that first came apart ? If there any needles left are they blue or the race they ride on blue.
Were you running the 140w thick hypoid oil ?

[MOBlue]

I have the same 6 speed as you and the same type of deal, a winter special at the Springfield dealer, so if you ever figure out what happened I would be interested in the cause. Also curious how much this will cost you after you're done.

[vagabond6542]

Don,

I read the thread about the tranny giving out after York. That some bad Chit man.
My take on what had happen, could mean some or not at all.
I think your gear set went through a extreme heat metal fatigue situation. Probably one of the gears started to shed away some it's apexes and it cascaded into foreign material circulating around to take out other gears. Being all were running in the same temperature environment, that would not be hard to do. Another contributing factor could be that the specs on the material used for the gears couldn't meet the temperature requirements.
Just my 02. 

[hogasm]

I suppose it's too late it the game to mention that where I in your shoes, the only trans that would find it's way into the bike would be a Baker DD6. Hell I'd even spring for a polished case. Cost - - hell yeah, but you only do it once.  It'd put the BOMB in your Cherry Bomb and would not, repeat would not do what your Screamin Eagle trans did - - - - ever.

B B

Well big B I really dont want to get your panties into a wad.......BUT.......my DD6, which by the way was installed by Baker himself.....has been into 3 times for 3 different problems.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  a big fan

guess the only saving grace is that when problems have occurred.....it did not lock up

[DavidB]

Well big B I really dont want to get your panties into a wad.......BUT.......my DD6, which by the way was installed by Baker himself.....has been into 3 times for 3 different problems.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  a big fan

guess the only saving grace is that when problems have occurred.....it did not lock up

Were the needle bearings the problem ?

[hogasm]

Were the needle bearings the problem ?

Have had the bearing go bad once

shifter drum
 
one that we think was a clip that gave up.......looked like Don's, but still had not quit

[Twolanerider]

Is this the bearing that first came apart ? If there any needles left are they blue or the race they ride on blue.
Were you running the 140w thick hypoid oil ?

David, best guess is that bearing had to be the sudden failure.  No needles left there either.  Needles were everywhere actually.  Though the needles themselves weren't blued.  No signs of excessive heat there at all.  It was the Redline heavy shockproof.

[Twolanerider]

I have the same 6 speed as you and the same type of deal, a winter special at the Springfield dealer, so if you ever figure out what happened I would be interested in the cause. Also curious how much this will cost you after you're done.

2E, scored a complete and still sealed new gear set on eBay for $1330.  That, a primary gasket and a quart of gear oil would have been the only expense were it not for having to buy some tools.

[Twolanerider]

Don,

I read the thread about the tranny giving out after York. That some bad Chit man.
My take on what had happen, could mean some or not at all.
I think your gear set went through a extreme heat metal fatigue situation. Probably one of the gears started to shed away some it's apexes and it cascaded into foreign material circulating around to take out other gears. Being all were running in the same temperature environment, that would not be hard to do. Another contributing factor could be that the specs on the material used for the gears couldn't meet the temperature requirements.
Just my 02. 

George, I'm willing to believe every bit of it.  Also, the damn thing broke !

[Twolanerider]

Have had the bearing go bad once

shifter drum
 
one that we think was a clip that gave up.......looked like Don's, but still had not quit

Hey Brian, not locking up would've been a lot better !

[SPIDERMAN]

Well big B I really dont want to get your panties into a wad.......BUT.......my DD6, which by the way was installed by Baker himself.....has been into 3 times for 3 different problems.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  a big fan

guess the only saving grace is that when problems have occurred.....it did not lock up

Brian
        It's the fish scales dude. They'll ruin anything. You really should clean your hands when going from the boat to the bike  

B B

[Twolanerider]

A bit of summary to date.  Have thoroughly appreciated everyone's insights and ideas.  No advice is ever unappreciate even if circumstances might make it unheeded at the time.  Talked to Spiderman briefly just this afternoon about just that.  Others have called to chat on it in the few days prior.  Especially since I'd never had an excuse to crawl inside one of these little gear boxes before it is all appreciated.  No panties wadded over any suggestions from anyone.  Don't give it a second thought.  Because it's all good .

[Twolanerider]

Brian
        It's the fish scales dude. They'll ruin anything. You really should clean your hands when going from the boat to the bike  

B B

Damn, I was guess Tuna fish oil in the gear box  !  Low cholesterol but bad for the gears !

[hogasm]

Brian
        It's the fish scales dude. They'll ruin anything. You really should clean your hands when going from the boat to the bike 

B B

It has been so long since I have been on the boat it is hard to remember.

After next weekend though it will be a different story. Need to burn massive amounts of that cheap fuel I have in the tanks and replace it with the new high dollar fuel. It has to catch more fish...as much as it costs

[hogasm]

Damn, I was guess Tuna fish oil in the gear box  !  Low cholesterol but bad for the gears !

No just that cheap 90w140 Amsoil since day 1

Maybe I need to try that new tuna fish oil....can't be any worse

[Twolanerider]

It has been so long since I have been on the boat it is hard to remember.

After next weekend though it will be a different story. Need to burn massive amounts of that cheap fuel I have in the tanks and replace it with the new high dollar fuel. It has to catch more fish...as much as it costs

Wow, that's the same logic I used when I figured that buying all the tranny tools would only cost half as much because I could use them on two transmissions.... 

[vagabond6542]

No just that cheap 90w140 Amsoil since day 1

Maybe I need to try that new tuna fish oil....can't be any worse

Please tell me where to buy that gear lube. I thought tuna fish oil was cheaper.

[MOBlue]

2E, scored a complete and still sealed new gear set on eBay for $1330.  That, a primary gasket and a quart of gear oil would have been the only expense were it not for having to buy some tools.

OUCH

[SPIDERMAN]

A bit of summary to date.  Have thoroughly appreciated everyone's insights and ideas.  No advice is ever unappreciate even if circumstances might make it unheeded at the time.  Talked to Spiderman briefly just this afternoon about just that.  Others have called to chat on it in the few days prior.  Especially since I'd never had an excuse to crawl inside one of these little gear boxes before it is all appreciated.  No panties wadded over any suggestions from anyone.  Don't give it a second thought.  Because it's all good .

If there's a fly in the ointment in any discussion of one gear set over another is that the manufacturers do not publish any specs on how much stress you can reasonably apply to their product. I've noticed clutch ads where they state something along the lines of " will hold up to 150ftlbs of Torque " I have to believe that not all gearboxes are created equal in terms of strength. Also bearings have varying crush limits etc. I've got 14k on the 6 speed H-D Cruise glide in my Road glide and 2/3rds of it have been with a motor pumping out 108ftlbs of TQ. Other than the fact that it shifts incredibly noisy, I have no complaints. BUT, I look at the thickness of the trap door and wonder at what point it is going to tweak ever so slightly and then the countershaft will try to climb over the main shaft as did the older Evo trannnies when we pumped up the motors. Time will tell I expect and for sure it won't break until the two year factory warranty expires October 1st. At that point, spending my own money it will be interesting to see if I heed my own advice or what happens. As I told Don, the view from the cheap seats is always just that- - - - cheap. It's easy to call the shots when spending someone else's money. In any event, it will be good to read Don post that his Cherry Bomb is back together again and running fine. In the meanwhile, having to ride that 00 SERG can't be all bad. 

B B

[FLYNDYNA]

Don,

 Extremely glad to hear that you weren't injured due to the tranny failure. I've seen alot of unexplainable things happen in 24+ years of wrenching on cars and trucks. Sometimes, minor fatigue caused by normal wear gets exaggerated by circumstance. Just glad you were able to get it back together at a minimal cost, as $3400.00 is outrageous for a bike tranny! Here's hoping (and knowing) that you'll have numerous years and miles on a now trouble free tranny built by hands that really care-YOURS!

Flyndyna

[vagabond6542]

Don,

 Extremely glad to hear that you weren't injured due to the tranny failure. I've seen alot of unexplainable things happen in 24+ years of wrenching on cars and trucks. Sometimes, minor fatigue caused by normal wear gets exaggerated by circumstance. Just glad you were able to get it back together at a minimal cost, as $3400.00 is outrageous for a bike tranny! Here's hoping (and knowing) that you'll have numerous years and miles on a now trouble free tranny built by hands that really care-YOURS!

Flyndyna

I have to chuckle at this.  Some 45 years ago starting out as a High tech technician, I learned a very valuable lesson.
If you want something done right, do it yourself. I guess even in this day and age, it still holds true.

[Twolanerider]

OUCH

Ouch is right.  And yet that was a bargain find on eBay.  Best price elsewhere just ordering for dealer was a few hundred bucks more.  Bikes need to be cheaper to own and operate. 

[Twolanerider]

 In the meanwhile, having to ride that 00 SERG can't be all bad. 

B B

That is the truth my friend.  Certainly helps make the annoyance of the failure less annoying.  And don't give a second thought to offering up idea, suggestions, advice or throwing stones with messages written on them.  If you didn't care you wouldn't bother to say a damn thing.  So it's always all good.

[CVOJOE]

Don,
Think that anyone (MOCO, etc.) can do an in-depth failure analysis on the tranny? Be nice to know if it was bearing or gear failure caused by what, etc. Surely there is someone (maybe even Baker) that would do it right, or maybe it's just too badly munged up to really tell? 

If you can recreate the 'trophy' maybe we can do something, but surely save the shavings and plugs are easy to come by. Encased in plastic for posterity and to be passed from CVO golfer generation to generation, ah the horror........

 
Joe

[DavidB]

Not having been into a gear box I am wondering.
 Would runing the heavy 140w oil instead of the 90w oil keep the needle bearings from getting there  proper lubrication ?
 There not pressure fed and the oil has to make its own way into the bearing.

[kurtlange]

looking at the pic of the cage for the roller bearing, i'd bet that's the screech and the lock-up was when the rollers got into the gears. looks like the gears chewed up most of the rollers.

this is what the rear differential looked like on a 4x4 i had that ate a bearing. truck was only 1 week old...

[SPIDERMAN]

Not having been into a gear box I am wondering.
 Would runing the heavy 140w oil instead of the 90w oil keep the needle bearings from getting there  proper lubrication ?
 There not pressure fed and the oil has to make its own way into the bearing.

Many many years ago when AMSOIL was first introduced, their only product was gear oil. They had displays at all of the swapmeets etc with two cutaway gearboxes. One had H-D's (at the time) Dino fluid and the other AMSOIL heavyweight gear oil. When you turned the gearsets, the AMSOIL would climb the gears and end covering the gears for 360 degrees. The regular H-D fluid would only splash on the lower sections of the gears. The heavier the weight of the gear oil, the more this effect would take place. The only drawback to using heavier than needed fluid is drag on the gears - - - the amount of extra effort it takes for the gears to push through the heavy weight fluid. As such, your hypothesis above is not valid.

B B

[DavidB]

Many many years ago when AMSOIL was first introduced, their only product was gear oil. They had displays at all of the swapmeets etc with two cutaway gearboxes. One had H-D's (at the time) Dino fluid and the other AMSOIL heavyweight gear oil. When you turned the gearsets, the AMSOIL would climb the gears and end covering the gears for 360 degrees. The regular H-D fluid would only splash on the lower sections of the gears. The heavier the weight of the gear oil, the more this effect would take place. The only drawback to using heavier than needed fluid is drag on the gears - - - the amount of extra effort it takes for the gears to push through the heavy weight fluid. As such, your hypothesis above is not valid.

B B

Im not concerned about the gears, there going to get oil . The secondary shaft rides in a needle bearing . Very tight tolerances. When these bearings let go they will they destory the transmission. Im just wondering if the thicker oil has a problem getting into these bearings.

[SPIDERMAN]

Im not concerned about the gears, there going to get oil . The secondary shaft rides in a needle bearing . Very tight tolerances. When these bearings let go they will they destory the transmission. Im just wondering if the thicker oil has a problem getting into these bearings.

Ok, I understand where you're coming from, but I believe that as the fluid heats up, it tends to become more - - - - well fluid I guess would be the word. The difference being that the viscosity breakdown is not as great with the higher numbers. In any event, think of your wheel bearings as a point of reference here. You work axle grease into the bearings by hand and then install them in the wheel with a seal to hold in the grease. My experience with needle bearing failure is relative to foreign matter finding it's way into the bearing cage and cause the individual "needles" to bind and seize. Having said all that, lack of lubrication is certainly the culprit in many many mechanical failures, so at the end of the day, your theory is as good as mine or anyone else's.

B B

[ultrafxr]

Not having been into a gear box I am wondering.
 Would runing the heavy 140w oil instead of the 90w oil keep the needle bearings from getting there  proper lubrication ?
 There not pressure fed and the oil has to make its own way into the bearing.

From Redline's website:
"The viscosity characteristics allow the lubricant to resist throwoff and provide a film thickness similar to a 75W250 grade, while providing the same low fluid friction as an SAE 75W90."

[CVOJOE]

Couple of others had asked for that also ?  Unfortunately it'd already been cleaned off. There will be lots of shavings in the oil drain container though.  So I guess it could be recreated ?









After cleaning his transmission drain plug of fragmentation, Don returns to the garage to install a more heavy duty model.




(sickos!!)

[Twolanerider]

After cleaning his transmission drain plug of fragmentation, Don returns to the garage to install a more heavy duty model.

oh wow, just think about packing those nuts with black powder and dropping it off the high school 

[EAGLE1]

here ya go don, Install this herringbone gear set and I promise you wont ever have another problem   

[Twolanerider]

here ya go don, Install this herringbone gear set and I promise you wont ever have another problem   

Well....... there goes another round of engine upgrades to turn those babies.

[SBB]

Well....... there goes another round of engine upgrades to turn those babies.

Don

Just get John to retune your SERG for torque and there should be no problem turning those gears.
It worked for me and he's closer to you.
Go for it

 

[Twolanerider]

Don

Just get John to retune your SERG for torque and there should be no problem turning those gears.
It worked for me and he's closer to you.
Go for it

 

Ok.  Will print a picture of the gear set.  Take it to Sandy.  Tell her I "want it tuned to turn these babies."  When she's done beating me with a stick I'll tell her you made me do it!

[SBB]

Ok.  Will print a picture of the gear set.  Take it to Sandy.  Tell her I "want it tuned to turn these babies."  When she's done beating me with a stick I'll tell her you made me do it!

That's right, wait till she's done beating you then tell her I said to do that.
Now that's a plan!


 

[SBB]

That's right, wait till she's done beating you then tell her I said to do that.
Now that's a plan!


 

As much as I hate quoting myself I have to say.
Tommy was and is right.
You are way above the rest of us!
Good call Tommy!

 

[Twolanerider]

That's right, wait till she's done beating you then tell her I said to do that.
Now that's a plan!


 

Actually it is.  If she feels guilty for beating me up maybe I'll get a free tune !

[SPIDERMAN]

What's the latest on this Don ?

B B

[Twolanerider]

What's the latest on this Don ?

B B

vroom, vroom 

[Boatman]

vroom, vroom 

Great to hear the red bike is back in action Don.   

[Twolanerider]

Great to hear the red bike is back in action Don.   

Oops, sorry.  Guess I hit send before I intended to up there.  Left hand didn't know what right brain was doing.  Should have been "vroom, vroom to nowhere."  There's a problem.

Waiting for the dealer that sold me the gear kit to make up his mind about what answer he's going to give.

[Boatman]

Oops, sorry.  Guess I hit send before I intended to up there.  Left hand didn't know what right brain was doing.  Should have been "vroom, vroom to nowhere."  There's a problem.

Waiting for the dealer that sold me the gear kit to make up his mind about what answer he's going to give.

Oh chit.

[Twolanerider]

My bad.  Was just reminded wasn't quite explanatory enough.  Funny because I was just talking to Scot about this same comedy of errors.  Here goes.

Took it all apart right after the parts got here.  Gutted except for removing the main gear itself.  Was tired and called it a night.

Next evening went out and grabbed my OLD trusty large snap ring tool that's been used inside of other trannies for years.  Apparently too old.  Was an appropriately sized tool.  But one of its nipples snapped off when squeezing the big 3.5" or so snap ring that retains the main gear.

No place in town had large snap ring tools in stock.  Waited three or four days for a tool to show up in the mail.

Evening it arrived went back to the task.  All going well.  Gears in.  Then suddenly realized the trap door on this gear set is Dyna.

Part number on the box is touring.  Cheat sheet has the same part number.  All the rest of the guts are interchangeable.  I'd just not noticed the little ear sticking out on the trap door intruding over where the oil neck bolts on until it was actually in the case and actually sticking over in the way.

Next day called the dealer that sold the gear set.  Was immediately apologetic and asked what I thought a fair solution was.  I asked if they'd supply a touring trap door.  Instead they're cutting a refund for the cost of a trap door which I can use to purchase the part wherever.  So I can't complain about their willingness to make it right.

Changing it will take another tool purchase from George's garage that I'd not expected to need the first time through.  So it's not without some expense.  The dealer was good enough about the problem there was nothing to get upset about.  Until, that is, I realized about 36 hours after finding the problem that only about 24 hours before discovering the old 6 speed gear set, with the trap door, had gone out in the trash.

It was ruined.  Ugly.  Wouldn't need any of it.  Useless in every way and only setting in the way.  The only piece that would have been reusable was the trap door.  Which was exactly the part I'm now waiting on.  Once that dawned on me I got a little cranky for a few hours.

[Twolanerider]

Oh chit.

Chit d'oth happen.  Sanity has been maintained because I've had the Road Glide to ride.  Probably would have been far crankier if not for that. 

Guess I should have noticed the difference earlier.  It is relatively subtle though.  And it's not like I handle this stuff every day to really KNOW it.  It's obvious when it's in place though.   

[naitram]

has the SERG had its traxxion treatment completed?

[TNThumper]

Sounds like Murphy is alive and well out there!!!

VG

[spydglide]

Gotta love a 'spare' motorsickle.  har!  spyder

[Twolanerider]

has the SERG had its traxxion treatment completed?

No Neal, it hasn't.  The legs had left here the day before the transmission shelled.  I asked UPS to try to catch the box and redirect back to me with the intent of just buttoning it back up and not worrying about it right now.  Tranny repairs was enough recreational bike expense at one time.

A little surprisingly (at least to me) UPS did catch the box and had it back to me two or three days later.  Quickly stuck the legs back up inside the Road Glide and have been happily riding it ever since.  Actually have the pieces here to put the alarm system on the SERG.  On a 2000 model that's a bit more of a chore then later models.  So even that's waiting until the red bike gets back together.  Unless need forces it just not screwing with both of them at the same time.

[Twolanerider]

Sounds like Murphy is alive and well out there!!!

VG

You have to wonder....  This bike sure doesn't seem to want to take a fix easily.  It's ok though.  Not going to fight it and not going to lose any sleep over it.  The other bike in hand makes it only an annoyance.

[Twolanerider]

Have been asked what the difference is.  Here's an image taken last week when I found I had the wrong side plate.  The red line roughly illustrates the shape of cover I should have.  What would be the top right bolt hole for the oil fill neck can be partially seen through the upper left bolt hole of the trap door.

I really should have noticed the wrong plate when eyeballing the parts upon opening the box.  It's not as if I didn't know what it was.  Just never put the old and new directly side by side and, lacking that, the difference is subtle enough I simply missed it until shoving it in the transmission and seeing the coverage area.  At that moment I did not say a bad word or three or four.  I promise.

[porthole]

bandsaw and grinder

[Twolanerider]

bandsaw and grinder

At least partially exposed area that would annoy the major ph*k out of me.



The other bike is here and fine.  I don't have to rush anything.  I keep telling myself that.

[Fired00d]

At least partially exposed area that would annoy the major ph*k out of me.



The other bike is here and fine.  I don't have to rush anything.  I keep telling myself that.

That'd be almost as bad as seeing stock hinges on a tourpak wouldn't it?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

That'd be almost as bad as seeing stock hinges on a tourpak wouldn't it?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Truth be told probably less .  Probably 85% of the area removed would be covered by the oil fill housing.  That doesn't mean I'm doing it though.  And your bare assed stock hinges are still ugly.

[Fired00d]

Truth be told probably less .  Probably 85% of the area removed would be covered by the oil fill housing.  That doesn't mean I'm doing it though.  And your bare assed stock hinges are still ugly.

Thank you sir.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

It just really sucks Mrs Dood said you can't have any hinges.

[Fired00d]

That would make me want to get them.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

That would make me want to get them.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

You can't have any.  Unless not until I've a transmission again.  Dammit.

[Fired00d]

You better hurry and get a transmission then.

But I'm still not getting those hinges for a tourpak that I don't even like to put on my bike.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[spydglide]

It just really sucks Mrs Dood said you can't have any hinges.

No way~  Say it ain't sooo, D00d.  har!  spyder

[Fired00d]

No way~  Say it ain't sooo, D00d.  har!  spyder

You know you can't pay any attention to Don he's a "Chithead". Oh wait so am I. Disregard.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

No way~  Say it ain't sooo, D00d.  har!  spyder

It's true Spyder.  She brought out the .  But then she remembered that he liked it so she stopped.

[Twolanerider]

You know you can't pay any attention to Don he's a "Chithead". Oh wait so am I. Disregard.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Damn straight. 

[Fired00d]

It's true Spyder.  She brought out the .  But then she remembered that he liked it so she stopped.

I told that woman not to tell you about that.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[porthole]

At least partially exposed area that would annoy the major ph*k out of me.

The other bike is here and fine.  I don't have to rush anything.  I keep telling myself that.

I'm surprised you didn't save the old plate - have to be able to sell it on eBay!

[Twolanerider]

I'm surprised you didn't save the old plate - have to be able to sell it on eBay!

Certainly wish I would have now.  At the time, however, it was simply part of an extrememly trashed assembly that still occasionally dripped grease and was in the way on the garage floor no matter where it got moved.  So it went in the bin.

The bearings were bad.  The door itself would have been the only thing from the old parts set that was usable.  In my mind it was all just a "bad parts set."  I screwed up.

[Twolanerider]

I told that woman not to tell you about that.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[spydglide]

  I screwed up.

well......how 'bout that.  TwoLaneRider & Boone Pickens both admitting screwing up on the same day.  har!  spyder

[Twolanerider]

well......how 'bout that.  TwoLaneRider & Boone Pickens both admitting screwing up on the same day.  har!  spyder

It's happened before.  It'll happen again.  Never been bashful about screw ups.

[vagabond6542]

vroom, vroom 

She's together and rolling, Huh.

[porthole]

Almost a year later I would like to ditto Don's comment about George's Garage.

Top shelf tools and customer service.
And when you call you almost always talk tot George.

A couple of cudo before I go to bed and forget them also.  The first is actually to Harley.  No chit.

We're all used to the various accessory parts, kits or bits that are by no means task complete.  Things you get home and, if you hadn't yet been conditioned to check first, would have you returning to the dealership to get pieces necessary to the task that weren't with the package (logic notwithstanding).

This transmission "Super Kit" appears to be pretty damned complete.  After seeing how ugly this was combined with being unfamiliar with the bowels of this gear box I checked the parts list and breakdown closely.  Unless I'm missing something this really is a complete kit.  All the way down to snap rings and o-rings.  The only thing one might get separately is one of those significantly over priced outer primary gaskets Harley is so proud of.  Aside from that it looks to be all inclusive.

The other good word is to a vendor I'd not used before.  George from George's Garage at http://www.georges-garage.com .  Appears to be only a specialty tool vendor.  Had heard good things about him prior and went there for tools I'd not had reason to need before.

Called him Monday.  George himself answered the phone.  Told him I was replacing a tranny gear set and asked him to send whatever tools were required to the task.  He responded saying there were a couple of tranny tools I'd not need.  He said what they were.  Explained why they wouldn't be needed (a shaft seal installer, for example, because the gear set comes with the seal already installed).  So he could've easily sold me more than I needed.  He mailed the pieces I did get the same day.  They got here Thursday.  And they are pretty tools.

I appreciate nice machine work and effective form and function.  These are all those things.  And George was a heluva nice guy to talk to too.  Now just hope I figure out how to use the rest of them putting all this mess back together tomorrow or Tuesday.... 

[djkak]

2Lane,

This may be a little late to weigh in on this aging topic, but what the hell. A gearbox is a gearbox is a gearbox until you run into one with specific lubrication requirements. Most motorcycle transmissions are lubricated with engine oil. This works well in medium to high speed applications running indirectly lubricated needle bearings. My sense is that the bearing manufacturer has the last word on the lubrication requirements for this transmission.

From this end of the ether it’s hard to say precisely what caused the transmission to meltdown. I will say that I prefer a lightweight lubricant in a needle bearing equipped gearbox like this one.

Other than that, I’m thinking that those gears would make great limited edition CVO medallions. Just run a chain through the center and wear them around your neck. Now there is a gift for your favorite gear head!

[Twolanerider]

2Lane,

This may be a little late to weigh in on this aging topic, but what the hell.

DJ, I tore it on down before trashing it all.  Like you say it was so far gone there was just no way to know for sure what the initial point of failure was.  Interestingly, however, is that during all the work I did with it I always thought the most likely initial failure was the bearing in that photo you selected. 

It was bad everywhere.  It was worst immediately surrounding this point.  It doesn't show up in the low res photos but there was also some interesting galling under that ruined cage.

[porthole]

Piqued my interest there Don.

Went back and looked at my pics

If you all recall, I am using red Line shockproof and at this tear down the bike had been sitting for a bit more then 4 months.






I would have to think that the bearings are getting an oil bath - even if it is 90w.

[Twolanerider]

Piqued my interest there Don.


I would have to think that the bearings are getting an oil bath - even if it is 90w.

Agree completely Duane.  I never doubted the oil.  Just had one of those rare cases where "something broke."  Doesn't happen often in a gear box.  Especially like that.  But anything can break at any time.  Oil choice was fine though.  It's still used in the gear box after all.

[spydglide]

Agree completely Duane.  I never doubted the oil.  Just had one of those rare cases where "something broke."  Doesn't happen often in a gear box.  Especially like that.  But anything can break at any time.  Oil choice was fine though.  It's still used in the gear box after all.

Without know what the initial cause of the breakage was though, you can't rule out the oil as with other things......can you?  spyder

[Twolanerider]

Without know what the initial cause of the breakage was though, you can't rule out the oil as with other things......can you?  spyder

Can't rule anything out.  Starship Enterprise might have slingshot around the sun gaining so much speed it came back in time, orbited once, beamed mutant metal munching space ninjas in to the gear box and then headed back out of orbit off to visit the pleasure palaces of the 7th Nebula of Xanadu.  Might have.  But I don't think that was it either .

[djkak]

The failed needle bearing in this transmission is isolated and shielded from lubrication by other transmission components. In this specific application the failed bearing is easily the last part requiring significant lubrication to get it. Consider the ability of a heavy lubricant to penetrate the obstacles, flush, cool, lubricate and evacuate from this location. Lower ambient temps also inhibit the flow of heavier lubricants and may contribute to a failure.

Just food for thought; this isn’t a question of quality, but one of application. I am suggesting that the recommended application of a specific lubricant in one gearbox may be inappropriate in another. JMHO

For the folks that haven’t had one of these apart, this digital photo helps to augment the word picture. Good luck and look out for those troublesome mutant metal munching space ninjas! 

[Compu_blast]

Can't rule anything out.  Starship Enterprise might have slingshot around the sun gaining so much speed it came back in time, orbited once, beamed mutant metal munching space ninjas in to the gear box and then headed back out of orbit off to visit the pleasure palaces of the 7th Nebula of Xanadu.  Might have.  But I don't think that was it either .

Just piled up a 5 speed in my 90 Flh~What am i lookin at to upgrad to a 6 speed ya think ?$$

[Twolanerider]

Just piled up a 5 speed in my 90 Flh~What am i lookin at to upgrad to a 6 speed ya think ?$$

33101-03A is the six speed gear set from HD.  About $2100 full MSRP.  Fits 1990 to 2000.  Because of the fitment not a real commonly sold item anymore.  That may be to your benefit.

Get your local parts counter to hop on HD-Net and see what dealerships have old stock.  Find someone who has had a high dollar gear set on the shelf for a long time and talk them down a bit.  I got the same gear set you need for my 2000 SERG.  Scored it on eBay for $950 if I remember correctly.  Some dealer listed it as old open box inventory and no one else bid.

Just checked out in the garage for the five speed gear set that came out of the SERG.  It would have got you going again.  Didn't find it though.  Must have given it away to someone else already .  If I find it will post here.

[Texas 103]

33101-03A is the six speed gear set from HD.  About $2100 full MSRP.  Fits 1990 to 2000.  Because of the fitment not a real commonly sold item anymore.  That may be to your benefit.

Get your local parts counter to hop on HD-Net and see what dealerships have old stock.  Find someone who has had a high dollar gear set on the shelf for a long time and talk them down a bit.  I got the same gear set you need for my 2000 SERG.  Scored it on eBay for $950 if I remember correctly.  Some dealer listed it as old open box inventory and no one else bid.

Just checked out in the garage for the five speed gear set that came out of the SERG.  It would have got you going again.  Didn't find it though.  Must have given it away to someone else already .  If I find it will post here.

I've got my old one out of my "06 Haze, Just takin up space...You need it it's your's, Just pay the freight...   

[Twolanerider]

I've got my old one out of my "06 Haze, Just takin up space...You need it it's your's, Just pay the freight...   

The 06 gears won't go in his 1990 bike Greg.  He needs 1990-2000.

Was farting around in the garage yesterday and while doing so looked for the gearset from the 2000.  Couldn't find it.  After digging for it think I remember sending it to Blaine awhile back.  Not sure.  But it's not here though. 

[Texas 103]

The 06 gears won't go in his 1990 bike Greg.  He needs 1990-2000.

Was farting around in the garage yesterday and while doing so looked for the gearset from the 2000.  Couldn't find it.  After digging for it think I remember sending it to Blaine awhile back.  Not sure.  But it's not here though. 

Hell that's why I offered it...Just kdding, thought he was talking about the infamous " Cherry "...