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[SIX38]

I am considering installing the Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08, in my '09 SEUC.
What are your valued opinions both pro and con?
Thanks
Tom P.

[grc]

I am considering installing the Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08, in my '09 SEUC.
What are your valued opinions both pro and con?
Thanks
Tom P.

I can't think of any compelling reason not to, other than the expense.  After all, it's basically what's in the Trikes and the 2010 CVO's.  I guess my question would be, do you have an issue that you think this part would fix?  If you currently have a weak compensator that is causing problems, before I'd pay H-D extra money to fix their problem I'd invite them to do so under warranty.  If you aren't currently experiencing any compensator related problems but just want to upgrade for peace of mind or whatever, only you can tell if it's worth the expense involved.


Jerry

[FR8TRN]

I have one sitting on the bench, will probably wait until winter to install, the inner primary has to come off to replace it.  Rotor won't come out with inner in place.

[Twolanerider]

If you install this kit follow the torque specs.  I know of two that were installed using impact wrenches.  Both failed in short order.

[sadunbar]

I have one sitting on the bench, will probably wait until winter to install, the inner primary has to come off to replace it.  Rotor won't come out with inner in place.

Really?   

This was not necessary on my 2007 SEUC...

[SBB]

I am considering installing the Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08, in my '09 SEUC.
What are your valued opinions both pro and con?
Thanks
Tom P.

About 1 in every 10 starts my 09 110 would make a clunking/grinding sound.
I just knew when it came apart for the repair I would see a tooth missing or broken on the starter or ring gear.
NOPE, not the case. After 35K miles of Redline primary fluid everything looked well.
A site member convinced me to replace the stock compensator and add the Screamin Eagle one.
Now, 2500 miles later the clunking/starting issues are just a distant memory.
I should have done it sooner.
If your having that strange sound at starting with your 110, NOW is better than later to add the SE Compensator.
IMHO

SBB

[sawyerghost]

So this aggravating noise is only due to the compensator, and has nothing to do with the starter?

[FR8TRN]

Really?   

This was not necessary on my 2007 SEUC...

Perhaps the inner was slightly different for the SE's then, mine had a defined ridge around the front that the rotor hit right on, even turned the crank 180 and it was still the same, was hoping it would be the same, but with crank runout you just never know.

[SBB]

So this aggravating noise is only due to the compensator, and has nothing to do with the starter?

In my case    YES!

May not apply the same to everyone else's 110 but for me all was well in the primary except for the stock compensator.

SBB

[SIX38]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. This is my 2 cents:

  Like SBB, I get the occasional clunking, grinding when starting.

  I have two riding buddies with 2010 CVO SE's and neither have had any similar starting noise issues.

  The MOCO now installs this compensator on 2010 CVO's and Trikes. Is this being done as a product improvement, or is it a fix to a problem on pre 2010 110's? What do you think?

  I have some long distance trips coming up soon, so I was going to pull the primary cover to inspect clutch, chain, and tensioner anyway.

  Though modest, my performance improvements (no-cat, TTS, Fullsac cores, Ventilator air cleaner), still increases HP/TQ by around 15% over stock.

  Much of my riding is two-up, fully loaded.

  And most important, I have not added or changed anything on the bike for over two months!!!

  Thanks again for for your opinions.

Tom P. 

 

[sadunbar]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. This is my 2 cents:

  Like SBB, I get the occasional clunking, grinding when starting.

  I have two riding buddies with 2010 CVO SE's and neither have had any similar starting noise issues.

  The MOCO now installs this compensator on 2010 CVO's and Trikes. Is this being done as a product improvement, or is it a fix to a problem on pre 2010 110's? What do you think?

  I have some long distance trips coming up soon, so I was going to pull the primary cover to inspect clutch, chain, and tensioner anyway.

  Though modest, my performance improvements (no-cat, TTS, Fullsac cores, Ventilator air cleaner), still increases HP/TQ by around 15% over stock.

  Much of my riding is two-up, fully loaded.

  And most important, I have not added or changed anything on the bike for over two months!!!

  Thanks again for for your opinions.

Tom P.  

Both...  

I believe the prime motivator for the redesigned compensator was the scissoring crankshafts.  The SE compensator reduces shock load transfer to the crankshaft.  The issue is both pre and current 110's....as the crankshaft has not changed.

[FiveO CVO]

Dropped the stock compensator on my 08 SERK (had to). Replaced with an EVO Industries 30T sprocket kit (chain & front sprocket) and couldn't be more pleased. Been on the bike now for at least 6 months and run it pretty hard (Road Guard for the MC I belong to). Knock on wood, haven't had any problems to date. I know some are concerned about crank run-out, but as I mentioned, no problems to date.  Bought the "Wedge" Primary Chain adjuster (Southern Oregon Hot Bikes), but haven't had a chance to install it. The stock adjuster seems to be working fine.

[FR8TRN]

Dropped the stock compensator on my 08 SERK (had to). Replaced with an EVO Industries 30T sprocket kit (chain & front sprocket) and couldn't be more pleased. Been on the bike now for at least 6 months and run it pretty hard (Road Guard for the MC I belong to). Knock on wood, haven't had any problems to date. I know some are concerned about crank run-out, but as I mentioned, no problems to date.  Bought the "Wedge" Primary Chain adjuster (Southern Oregon Hot Bikes), but haven't had a chance to install it. The stock adjuster seems to be working fine.

That sprocket seems to just be a solid piece tied straight to the crank, no....slip.....like the original compensator sprocket has??

[grc]

Yup, the EVO industries sprocket is solid, with no compensator feature.  Considering all the various issues with these engines and drivetrains, there is no way I would eliminate the compensator.


Jerry

[FR8TRN]

Yup, the EVO industries sprocket is solid, with no compensator feature.  Considering all the various issues with these engines and drivetrains, there is no way I would eliminate the compensator.


Jerry

Thats what I'm thinking, not without a welded crank and the bearing thing.....

[RayG]

As usual I'm confused, I just had my starter replaced along with new rotors and the TBW issue resolved for now. What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.

[muddypaws]

I have a 2009 SEUC that has had starting problems after the first 1000 miles. I have had a new starter, clutch basket and clutch bearing. They now tell me it's the main shaft bearings and we are waiting for parts. Any thoughts?

[sblade1948]

This was a friends stock 96. Bike was out of warranty but H-D covered it. Have heard of others taht did same thing.

[FR8TRN]

This was a friends stock 96. Bike was out of warranty but H-D covered it. Have heard of others taht did same thing.

What year is that??  Cause it looks reliefed around the front so the rotor can come out, mine was just the opposite, a defined ridge in that area stopping the rotor.

[sblade1948]

07

[SBB]

As usual I'm confused,  What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.

quote from sadunbar

I believe the prime motivator for the redesigned compensator was the scissoring crankshafts.  The SE compensator reduces shock load transfer to the crankshaft.   The issue is both pre and current 110's....as the crankshaft has not changed.

SBB

[FR8TRN]

07

Like to know why in the hell mine has a ridge preventing it then...damn...I always get the hard crap....

[FR8TRN]

As usual I'm confused, I just had my starter replaced along with new rotors and the TBW issue resolved for now. What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.

When I opened up mine, there was alot of slop in the compensator, nearly a quarter turn.  The springs on the back side aren't applying enough pressure, you could hear it in the starter.  I installed a shim since it was easier than pulling the inner primary at the time.  It's better for now, but I'll pull and replace over the winter, unless it gets worse before then, in which case I'll bite the bullet and do it sooner.

[Texas 103]

I can't think of any compelling reason not to, other than the expense.  After all, it's basically what's in the Trikes and the 2010 CVO's.  I guess my question would be, do you have an issue that you think this part would fix?  If you currently have a weak compensator that is causing problems, before I'd pay H-D extra money to fix their problem I'd invite them to do so under warranty.  If you aren't currently experiencing any compensator related problems but just want to upgrade for peace of mind or whatever, only you can tell if it's worth the expense involved.


Jerry

If you tell them it kicks back and starts hard. and you are on good terms with you dealer..They can get that done under warranty...did it twice....

[guppytrash]

OK help me out; but in neutral why is the compensator having any affect on the start?
My 09 is getting a new starter because it starts like the ACR's are off.  They are on and working but my starter is struggling so I am getting a new one under warranty.  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???

[FR8TRN]

OK help me out but in neutral why is the compensator having any affect on the start?
My 09 is getting a new starter because it start like the ACR's are off.  They are on and working but my starter is struggling so I am getting a new one under warranty.  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???

Look at the pic up farther, the starter works by turning the clutch which turns the primary chain which turns the compesator which turns the engine which then starts, gear selection has nothing to do with any of that, however, starting in neutral means the starter doesn't have to fight the friction in the clutch plates as well as turn the engine.  When you hit the start button and hear a "bang" as it starts to crank, thats the compensator.

[SBB]

  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???

Most likely it's the compensator.

SBB

[guppytrash]

Ok ...but I still dont understand how the compensator is causing extra drag on the starter.  What part of the compensator do I need to look at to see if there is a failure?

I don't want to trash another starter.

[sadunbar]

Ok ...but I still dont understand how the compensator is causing extra drag on the starter.  What part of the compensator do I need to look at to see if there is a failure?

I don't want to trash another starter.

Attached is a drawing of the SE compensator - page 3 of the PDF..
 
Parts 6 and 7 are "Belleville" spring washers.  They create the clamp force.
 
Part 3 is the sliding cam.  Part 4 is the compensating sprocket.
 
Part 3 is driven by the crankshaft via the splines.  Part 4 drives the primary chain to the clutch.  So the transfer of power from the motor to the drivetrain via the clutch happens between these parts.
 
Parts 3 and 4 are clamped to each other with force created by the spring washers.  Part 3 has three ramps that protrude between the three webs on Part 4.  
 
The idea is the spring pressure is adequate to keep the Part 3 ramps from ever bottoming on the Part 4 webs, eliminating shock load on the crankshaft (and starter during when starting the motor).
 
The stock compensator does not have adequate spring pressure to prevent this from happening on the stock 110, much less on an improved stock 110.
 
If the ramps do bottom on the webs, it is a solid "clunk" that gets transferred to the crankshaft like hitting it with a hammer.  It doesn't produce a "grinding" noise, just a solid "clunk".  
 
The only real weakness in this design is part 9.  It is a fiber washer.  As the fiber washer wears, it will get thinner, and reduces the clamp force the spring pressure creates.  Over time, this fiber washer should be replaced.  I replaced mine after about 8,000 miles.  It had reduced in thickness by about .010 after 8,000 miles.
 
I've seen the fiber washer disintegrate before.  Broken into pieces.    Most likely because the "mechanic" tightened fastener #9 with an impact wrench instead of following the torque procedure in the instructions.  Previous compensators were supposed to be tightened with an impact wrench.  The SE compensator fastener cannot be tightened with a impact wrench, because it could crack and fracture this washer - and eventually fail and fall apart.  So if there is anything that could be done wrong during installation, that is it.
 
One other thing that could be done wrong during assembly is to install the spring washers wrong.  They have to be orientated exactly as shown, otherwise the spring pressure would be reduced, which would result in insufficient clamp force.  That is why they have a separate picture of the orientation of Page 1 of the PDF.  It is critical the spring washers are orientated correctly.
 
A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 

[aclass]

   Darn good explanation!

[SBB]

Well that explains a lot.
Thanks Scott!
In my case the starter was fine, the clunk was the stock compensator slipping.
After adding the new Screamin Eagle compensator 2500 miles ago the clunking sound is a distant memory.

SBB

[SIX38]

CASE CLOSED. SE Compensator on order.

Thanks everyone for the "as always" great info!!

Tom P.

[guppytrash]

A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 

Thanks sadunbar

I was not able to wrap my head around the compensator designed to "absorb" the shock of over 100ft/lbs of torque from the engine to not "twist" "scissor" something as strong as the crank was playing a role in the start sequence.
I get it now... the compensator must be very "progressive in it's dampening".  
This quote sums up exactly what has happened to my starter.  The starter clutch is being hammered and that is why I am hearing more and more on each start.
THANKS!
Now I can go into the dealer and explain this to them, and why I need to get this replaced.  Not looking forward to the battle with HD, seems fairly obvious this is the cure as opposed to multiple starter replacements.  My service manager is really good so it should not be a problem.  
  

[HDDOCFL]

Attached is a drawing of the SE compensator - page 3 of the PDF..
 
Parts 6 and 7 are "Belleville" spring washers.  They create the clamp force.
 
Part 3 is the sliding cam.  Part 4 is the compensating sprocket.
 
Part 3 is driven by the crankshaft via the splines.  Part 4 drives the primary chain to the clutch.  So the transfer of power from the motor to the drivetrain via the clutch happens between these parts.
 
Parts 3 and 4 are clamped to each other with force created by the spring washers.  Part 3 has three ramps that protrude between the three webs on Part 4.  
 
The idea is the spring pressure is adequate to keep the Part 3 ramps from ever bottoming on the Part 4 webs, eliminating shock load on the crankshaft (and starter during when starting the motor).
 
The stock compensator does not have adequate spring pressure to prevent this from happening on the stock 110, much less on an improved stock 110.
 
If the ramps do bottom on the webs, it is a solid "clunk" that gets transferred to the crankshaft like hitting it with a hammer.  It doesn't produce a "grinding" noise, just a solid "clunk".  
 
The only real weakness in this design is part 9.  It is a fiber washer.  As the fiber washer wears, it will get thinner, and reduces the clamp force the spring pressure creates.  Over time, this fiber washer should be replaced.  I replaced mine after about 8,000 miles.  It had reduced in thickness by about .010 after 8,000 miles.
 
I've seen the fiber washer disintegrate before.  Broken into pieces.    Most likely because the "mechanic" tightened fastener #9 with an impact wrench instead of following the torque procedure in the instructions.  Previous compensators were supposed to be tightened with an impact wrench.  The SE compensator fastener cannot be tightened with a impact wrench, because it could crack and fracture this washer - and eventually fail and fall apart.  So if there is anything that could be done wrong during installation, that is it.
 
One other thing that could be done wrong during assembly is to install the spring washers wrong.  They have to be orientated exactly as shown, otherwise the spring pressure would be reduced, which would result in insufficient clamp force.  That is why they have a separate picture of the orientation of Page 1 of the PDF.  It is critical the spring washers are orientated correctly.
 
A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 

I have to wonder why the fiber washer is used on the SE Compensator assm. in the first place and why you could not just install a metal spacer instead of having to go in the primary and replace that fiber washer after only 8,000 miles. ?  I have not seen one in my hands yet, but see no reason not to use a metal spacer.  Thanks Doc

[Gamma742]

The PDF file says 2007 and later.. Will this S.E. Compensator NOT work on my 06 SEUC 103 engine?

[grc]

The PDF file says 2007 and later.. Will this S.E. Compensator NOT work on my 06 SEUC 103 engine?

Totally different design and it will not work on the previous design engines.  Your '06 model doesn't need an upgrade, Harley didn't screw up the stock compensator until 2007.  Just make sure the nut is torqued properly using the latest method and specification.


Jerry

[sadunbar]

Totally different design and it will not work on the previous design engines.  Your '06 model doesn't need an upgrade, Harley didn't screw up the stock compensator or screw up the crankshaft until 2007.  Just make sure the nut is torqued properly using the latest method and specification.


Jerry

 

[FR8TRN]

Interesting that all 2011 Touring models will now use the SE Compensator.....very interesting....

[sawyerghost]

I understand the compensator has issues, and it's function.
However, I just replaced my starter and so far the clunking issues that we all have had with our original equipment no longer exists for me.
Hopefully this result will continue.

[grc]

Interesting that all 2011 Touring models will now use the SE Compensator.....very interesting....

Don't suppose the mothership is getting tired of paying to fix all those starter drives and clunking noises, and finally figured it might be smarter to use the better (more expensive) parts in production? 

Don't worry, however.  If you peruse the other changes for 2011 you will find that they have cheapened more than enough in other areas to make up the difference.  I especially like the elimination of the bushings in the cam plate and rods, and there are too many others to mention in this thread.  I'm sure we'll be cussing/discussing them elsewhere.


Jerry 

[FR8TRN]

Don't suppose the mothership is getting tired of paying to fix all those starter drives and clunking noises, and finally figured it might be smarter to use the better (more expensive) parts in production? 

Don't worry, however.  If you peruse the other changes for 2011 you will find that they have cheapened more than enough in other areas to make up the difference.  I especially like the elimination of the bushings in the cam plate and rods, and there are too many others to mention in this thread.  I'm sure we'll be cussing/discussing them elsewhere.

Jerry 

Year after year they never cease to amaze me.....fixing non-existing issues....only to replace them with new ones. 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Year after year they never cease to amaze me.....fixing non-existing issues....only to replace them with new ones. 

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

[grc]

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

That's usually a pretty good indicator that they have a major problem. 

I wonder if they plan to reimburse all those who had to buy one from the catalog to fix their 2007-2009 models on their own?  Yeah, I know, when pigs fly.


Jerry

[FR8TRN]

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

I have one in the geerage....tell your dealer $1000 and I'll ship it overnight. LOL.....jokin of course.....no way I'm sellin it....

[guppytrash]

I have to wonder why the fiber washer is used on the SE Compensator assm. in the first place and why you could not just install a metal spacer instead of having to go in the primary and replace that fiber washer after only 8,000 miles. ?  I have not seen one in my hands yet, but see no reason not to use a metal spacer.  Thanks Doc

sadunbar

The fix is the SE compensator in your diagram?  Or is the diagram of the problem compensator I currently have in my 09?
I hate to think I am going to buy the new compensator and then be replacing washers in it every 8000 miles. 
And thanks for the explanation.  I am thinking MOCO is not going to fix this for me under warranty without a battle.

[sadunbar]

sadunbar

The fix is the SE compensator in your diagram?   Or is the diagram of the problem compensator I currently have in my 09?  I hate to think I am going to buy the new compensator and then be replacing washers in it every 8000 miles.  
And thanks for the explanation.  I am thinking MOCO is not going to fix this for me under warranty without a battle.

It's the latest and greatest!

[guppytrash]

So the latest and greatest STILL has an issue?  NOT GOOD!

[SBB]

So the latest and greatest STILL has an issue?  NOT GOOD!

GT

How you figure the SE compensator has an issue?

SBB

[grc]

GT

How you figure the SE compensator has an issue?

SBB

Chip, I think he's talking about the fiber washer that some folks have had problems with.  I'm aware of the problem with the ones installed with an impact wrench, and even I can't find a way to blame H-D for that.  Anyone who is dumb enough to assemble anything with an impact wrench deserves to have the parts fail.  Back when I still had a job, we had the impact wrenches in the repair areas of the factory (that's the only place we had them) modified so that they would only work one way, in reverse.  That was to make certain no one used them to tighten fasteners.


Jerry

[Rooster]

During the time mine was down for the comp ass. There were several others showing up and two failures WITH the new Comp assembly. Anyway I feel the new one is better just think here is another thing we better keep an eye on.

[guppytrash]

SBB

sadunbar was saying he had to replace a fiber washer in the new SE comp after 8000 miles.  That is what I was referring to.
Just doesn't seem like it should be that hard to make one of these bullet proof.


GT

[aclass]

I'm gonna be installing my SE Compensator Monday when it arrives, (should have done it when I installed the chrome inner).   Will the stator ring come off and clear the inner primary?   Or do you have to remove the inner as well?

[sadunbar]

I'm gonna be installing my SE Compensator Monday when it arrives, (should have done it when I installed the chrome inner).   Will the stator ring come off and clear the inner primary?   Or do you have to remove the inner as well?

You don't have to remove the inner......

[FNGw/08SERK]

You don't have to remove the inner......

Scott, the dealer just replaced mine and removed the inner  I was told 08+     

Howie

[sadunbar]

Scott, the dealer just replaced mine and removed the inner   I was told 08+    

Howie

Really?

   My knowledge base primarily ends at 2007....  

But why would I be suprised it would now be necessary to remove the inner primary to pull the compensator...

I wonder if it was required due to casting variation vs. a design intent? 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Really?

   My knowledge base primarily ends at 2007....   

But why would I be suprised it would now be necessary to remove the inner primary to pull the compensator... (I wonder if it was required due to casting variation vs. a design intent?)

I should be clear ... I have no way to know it's "necessary" other than what I was told.

[Twolanerider]

Really?

   My knowledge base primarily ends at 2007....  

But why would I be surprised it would now be necessary to remove the inner primary to pull the compensator...

Probably don't have to pull the inner; just the swingarm (sorry everyone, it's a Don and Scott joke) .

[sadunbar]

Probably don't have to pull the inner; just the swingarm (sorry everyone, it's a Don and Scott joke) .

I pull the swing arm for everything...oil changes, all bulb changes, even when washing and waxing...

[FR8TRN]

I should be clear ... I have no way to know it's "necessary" other than what I was told.

Inner has to be pulled on my '07, but it's not a CVO....the picture put up earlier in this thread shows a relief where the rotor slids out, mine actually had a rise there.....weird.

[aclass]

Confirmed!!   Inner has to be removed on an 09.
I started on the disassembly today and the stator ring wont come out b/c of a slightly raised lip on the surface of the inner primary.   Close! but no cigar.
Another trip to the dealer for more gaskets.

[Twolanerider]

Inner has to be pulled on my '07, but it's not a CVO....the picture put up earlier in this thread shows a relief where the rotor slids out, mine actually had a rise there.....weird.

The install PDF for this kit says nothing about removing he inner.  Sounds like you guys are witnessing some casting variation.  Isn't that precious....

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/downloads/Service/isheets/-J04825.pdf

[FR8TRN]

The install PDF for this kit says nothing about removing he inner.  Sounds like you guys are witnessing some casting variation.  Isn't that precious....

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/downloads/Service/isheets/-J04825.pdf

I don't think it was just a variation in the casting, it was a deliberate lip, where the one pic'd earlier in this thread is a deliberate recess/relief.  I'd consider a variation to be maybe a random thickness change or something similiar.  I wish I had taken pics...I will when I open it up again.

[Twolanerider]

I don't think it was just a variation in the casting, it was a deliberate lip, where the one pic'd earlier in this thread is a deliberate recess/relief.  I'd consider a variation to be maybe a random thickness change or something similiar.  I wish I had taken pics...I will when I open it up again.

That's strange too.  Can't think of any reason to make it more involved to disassemble.  Doing so wouldn't make line assembly any different or easier.  Wonder if there's a revision on the inner primary's part number somewhere between 07 and now?

[sadunbar]

That's strange too.  Can't think of any reason to make it more involved to disassemble.  Doing so wouldn't make line assembly any different or easier.  Wonder if there's a revision on the inner primary's part number somewhere between 07 and now?

There's not...  This has to be a casting variation or machining error....   

[Twolanerider]

There's not...  This has to be a casting variation or machining error....   

Maybe multiple suppliers with slightly different molds and final machinings?  Both parts functional for line assembly so Harley never notices the difference.

[aclass]

Well,   here is the lip that the stator ring wont clear. 


And check out the incredible difference between the springs of the Factory compensator still in the stator ring and the springs from the SE unit not yet installed.  Literally twice as big.


And here are all the pieces with the SE unit on the paper and the stock unit on the left.

[FR8TRN]

Well,   here is the lip that the stator ring wont clear. 

Yup, thats what mine looked like also......how many gaskets did ya need for the inner???  Guess I need to start collecting them.....

[Rooster]

I guess they figured the 07 CVO's  were going to need this later so they gave us the clearance since we were going to have plenty of issues already to deal with.

[aclass]

Yup, thats what mine looked like also......how many gaskets did ya need for the inner???  Guess I need to start collecting them.....

I'm not sure about the 07 and 08 but the inner primary hardware is alot better on the 09's than on the 06 and prior. The bolts use a oring seal and also the starter uses an oring as opposed to the oil seal.  The gasket between the engine and inner is a much more substantial piece than the little oring that use to be there.
But to answer your question, you'll need the gasket between your engine and inner and an oring for your starter. And thats ME assuming your 07 is like the 09.

[HDDOCFL]

Should have the SE Comp sprocket this week, I know from other 07 -08-09 that the inner will have to come off to remove the rotor.  Doc

[Twolanerider]

I'm not sure about the 07 and 08 but the inner primary hardware is alot better on the 09's than on the 06 and prior. The bolts use a oring seal and also the starter uses an oring as opposed to the oil seal.  The gasket between the engine and inner is a much more substantial piece than the little oring that use to be there.
But to answer your question, you'll need the gasket between your engine and inner and an oring for your starter. And thats ME assuming your 07 is like the 09.

The inner case to engine case gasket is more substantial than the old o-ring and the bolts have their own seal (they're also a one time use bolt so if you remove them for some reason you're supposed to throw them away and buy more).  Those things on the old system never gave any problem though.  So different and more substantial isn't necessarily a performance improvement.  The starter sealing and removal system is a lot easier to work with though. 

The starters themselves seem to be giving a bit more problem.  But at least they're a lot easier to get in and out.

[DavidB]

Will a diegrinder take care of that lip wnd still seal ?

Well,   here is the lip that the stator ring wont clear. 


And check out the incredible difference between the springs of the Factory compensator still in the stator ring and the springs from the SE unit not yet installed.  Literally twice as big.


And here are all the pieces with the SE unit on the paper and the stock unit on the left.

[FR8TRN]

Will a diegrinder take care of that lip wnd still seal ?

I was close to trying it but didn't want all the grinding metal to clean out.....

[guppytrash]

Thanks to you all!!!

Mine is done and it is a HUGE difference during start.  I would not have believed changing the compensator was going to have such a dramatic difference in the way the bike starts.

I feel like my new starter has a chance at lasting now.

My dealer really stepped up on this one, and they did need to remove the inner primary to get it done.

[aclass]

My dealer really stepped up on this one, and they did need to remove the inner primary to get it done.

Wow,   I'd like to know how they managed that.

Finally got to ride mine the other day after the switch,   quite a difference.

[Robmay]

As some of you already know, I have a stock 96" upgraded to the 103". I have had this grinding, kickback about every 10-15 starts. Sometimes it does it more frequently. We tried tuning it out with the TTS to no avail. Could this be the stock compensator?

[sadunbar]

As some of you already know, I have a stock 96" upgraded to the 103". I have had this grinding, kickback about every 10-15 starts. Sometimes it does it more frequently. We tried tuning it out with the TTS to no avail. Could this be the stock compensator?

yes...

[Robmay]

yes...

Thanks Scott. In your opinion, could it cause the engine to turn over and not fire about the same 1 out of 10-15 starts? Then when I let off the start button and press it again, it immediately fires up.

[JCZ]

As some of you already know, I have a stock 96" upgraded to the 103". I have had this grinding, kickback about every 10-15 starts. Sometimes it does it more frequently. We tried tuning it out with the TTS to no avail. Could this be the stock compensator?

Starter clutch..........they replaced Terrie's awhile back.

They're replacing my compensator right now but it wasn't affecting the starts........just a noise in the primary.

[sadunbar]

Thanks Scott. In your opinion, could it cause the engine to turn over and not fire about the same 1 out of 10-15 starts? Then when I let off the start button and press it again, it immediately fires up.

Yes...  The compensator is likely taking out the starter clutch with it.  Both should be replaced.  But the root cause is the weak compensator.

[Texas 103]

Wow,   I'd like to know how they managed that.

Finally got to ride mine the other day after the switch,   quite a difference.

They manage it by putting hard starting and kick back on the R.O and then putting in the SE stuff but they can't list it as the SE # ...

[Limited Lou]

Just got my compensator replaced on my 2010 Limited.. Heard a noise on accations, so I had nothing to do after a day off and went to the big Harley shop in Ormond/Daytona and paid the difference for the Screaming Eagle up grade.. The Service writer said I'd notice a difference but couldn't feel anything... Can any one feel a difference ??

[SIX38]

Going with everyone's advice, I installed the SE Big Twin Compensator. BIG IMPROVEMENT!!!. After the install, I drove about a mile, everything felt OK and then two days later headed out on a 3000 mile, 10 day trip. We hit nothing but twisty roads in NY, CN, MA, VT, PA, OH, WV, VA, MD, & NJ and the bike, especially the drive train performed perfectly. If you are on the fence about making this change, I highly recommend it.
           1) Consistant smooth starts
           2) Quiet Primary
           3) Shifts much smoother
           4) Nice and easy into neutral
           5) No more banging in the primary
Oh yea, the inner primary had to be removed to install this, poor design IMO, but not a big deal.
Photo shows SE springs on left, stock springs inside rotor.
Tom P.

[SIX38]

SE Big Twin Compensator installed

[SIX38]

This is a photo of the stock shaft extension that the stock sliding cam and sprocket rides on. This had 5600 miles on it and as you can see shows evidence of lack of lube and shock loading. This is likely due to the weak stock compensator being in constant motion, but it's captive design does not allow for adequate oil flow.

[SIX38]

Lots of wear at full travel location

[SIX38]

The peaks of the sliding cam showing plenty of wear and begining to mushroom.

[HDDOCFL]

My bike with 10.000 miles on it looked a lot more worn than yours. But the end result was the same. Very happy with the upgrade.  Doc

[aclass]

My bike with 10.000 miles on it looked a lot more worn than yours. But the end result was the same. Very happy with the upgrade.  Doc

My sentiments exactly,  the MOCO really screwed up on that one.  I hated to spend the money but what an incredible difference.

[DESERTBEAR54]

Did all the 2010's have the new improved SE Compensator? I have a 2010 SEUC and when the bike gets nice and Hot I have this Clacking noise coming from the Primary. If I pull in the clutch it goes away??

[HDDOCFL]

Did all the 2010's have the new improved SE Compensator? I have a 2010 SEUC and when the bike gets nice and Hot I have this Clacking noise coming from the Primary. If I pull in the clutch it goes away??
[/quot

Your 2010 came from the factory with the SE Compensator in it stock. As for the primary when hot noise I have the same noise and have heard it on every 110" motor with the hydraulic clutch I have listed to, some louder than others, pull the clutch in and the noise stifles.  Doc

[guppytrash]

After my SE compensator was installed and the bike got hot it made a whirring noise.  The chain was to tight.  after they loosened the primary chain it went away.
Now that I have said that I will add the new SE comp definitely is more noticeable (sound wise) than the old one.

 

[DESERTBEAR54]

Well Tech support this morning informed me that the SE Compensator was installed new in the 2011's. The 2010's have the standard Compensator. Tech Support told me that was a normal situation and that it will not break.

[HDDOCFL]

Well Tech support this morning informed me that the SE Compensator was installed new in the 2011's. The 2010's have the standard Compensator. Tech Support told me that was a normal situation and that it will not break.

All the 2010 CVO touring models recieved the SE compensator as stock. As did the trikes.  Doc

[Bandit4142]

*Also posted in another Compensator thread*

Made the call yesterday to Harley Customer Service....  I explained that 1 in 5 times I'm getting a very loud 'kick-back' then the bike won't start, also an extremely loud bang when it doesn't fire, then the bike cranks repeatedly before it will start.   Explained about the loose metallic sound in the primary, and was told all of this is 'normal' for a CVO 110 motor.  Told there are no known issues with the old Compensator.   Was given a reference number and sent on my way......   

[SBB]

*Also posted in another Compensator thread*

Made the call yesterday to Harley Customer Service....  I explained that 1 in 5 times I'm getting a very loud 'kick-back' then the bike won't start, also an extremely loud bang when it doesn't fire, then the bike cranks repeatedly before it will start.   Explained about the loose metallic sound in the primary, and was told all of this is 'normal' for a CVO 110 motor.  Told there are no known issues with the old Compensator.   Was given a reference number and sent on my way......   

WOW! 


SBB

[grc]

*Also posted in another Compensator thread*

Made the call yesterday to Harley Customer Service....  I explained that 1 in 5 times I'm getting a very loud 'kick-back' then the bike won't start, also an extremely loud bang when it doesn't fire, then the bike cranks repeatedly before it will start.   Explained about the loose metallic sound in the primary, and was told all of this is 'normal' for a CVO 110 motor.  Told there are no known issues with the old Compensator.   Was given a reference number and sent on my way......   

Sounds like one of the tightwad execs found out someone was authorizing upgrading the compensator under warranty and put out the word to Customer Disservice to cease and desist.  I've always loved how they can sit there behind their monitors and read all those lies to the customers without giggling.

If you really have the issues you mention, and they don't fix it, sue the SOB's.  Small claims court, doesn't cost you much other than your time, irritates the hell out of them.


Jerry

[SBB]

Sounds like one of the tightwad execs found out someone was authorizing upgrading the compensator under warranty and put out the word to Customer Disservice to cease and desist.  I've always loved how they can sit there behind their monitors and read all those lies to the customers without giggling.

If you really have the issues you mention, and they don't fix it, sue the SOB's.  Small claims court, doesn't cost you much other than your time, irritates the hell out of them.


Jerry

Jerry

An official letter from an attorney to the Dealer/Motor Company will work wonders.
The Motor Company doesn't like those letters.
Yes, it's a damn shame it has to go that far, but we do what we have to do.

SBB

[Robmay]

I think I heard that noise in mine with it hot, in neutral and the clutch out. A slight rattling noise. Only once so far though.

[FNGw/08SERK]

After speaking with the MOCO folks at Sturigis last year at that little meet and greet they put on for CVO Harley members, I've come to realize not only do they monitor this site regularly (they offered that up willingly btw) my own experience is they use it to their advantage when possible. In the interest of full disclosure, I wonder if I could figure out how to scan a copy of my receipt of the compensator warranty as a reference to the problem that doesn't exist??

They have no worries about alienating their loyal customers or their employees it seems!!! Shame on them!!! 

[IMAbadman]

I'm getting ready to pull my engine for the Darkhorse crankshaft plug/weld/true and the Timkin bearings.

I'm on the fense if I should go with this new compensator then.  If it's main purpose is to eliminate 'shock' to the crankshaft will I see much benefit other than an occaional clank at start?

[sadunbar]

I'm getting ready to pull my engine for the Darkhorse crankshaft plug/weld/true and the Timkin bearings.

I'm on the fense if I should go with this new compensator then.  If it's main purpose is to eliminate 'shock' to the crankshaft will I see much benefit other than an occaional clank at start?

Absolutely you should.  The improved compensator reduces shock load from the entire drivetrain - not just the motor...   

[IMAbadman]

Thanks for the response!

Just to clarify this is the correct part number?     SE Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08

[sadunbar]

Thanks for the response!

Just to clarify this is the correct part number?     SE Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08

That's the correct part number...   

[smenard415]

Greetings,

The SE Twin Compensator p/n 40274-08 as of today at 1530hrs on Oct. 8th, is on back order until 10-22-2010.

just so ya'll know.

SteveM

[LC110]

I had the screamin eagle compensator installed under warranty this past week.
I am very happy with the way the bike starts now. And the noise  and vibration I was hearing/feeling while it was idling in neutral/clutch out is now gone.
I did pay the price difference between the stock and the screamin eagle unit.

[Billy]

Just installed new SE compensator. Huge difference in starting and now when taking off in first gear the clutch grabs rightaway and I have power instantly. Use to have to ride the clutch a bit to start not anymore. Great improvement. Done under ESP{ plan only 50 bucks plus 50 bucks for upgrade to SE compensator Billy

[skippy49]

There's not...  This has to be a casting variation or machining error....   

  I started today to replace my compensator with the new one.  As mentioned in other posts here, I couldn't get the rotor to clear the casting on the inner primary.  Using a feeler gauge I could see where the problem was so I got out my trusty half moon file and started in on it.  Took a while of filing and checking and sanding it smooth but I finally got enough removed to get the rotor off.  I honestly believe it's a casting tolerance error---just poor manufacturing.   I can't see any reason at all that they would make it so that the inner primary would have to come off.   Also the service manual doesn't make any mention of removing the inner primary.  I used a file (I was going to use a grinder but didn't want all the grinding dust) so I could easily control and clean up the filings.
   Just thought I'd post what I found with my bike.
Steve