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Author Topic: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator  (Read 49342 times)

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RayG

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 11:15:21 AM »

As usual I'm confused, I just had my starter replaced along with new rotors and the TBW issue resolved for now. What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.
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muddypaws

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 11:54:18 AM »

I have a 2009 SEUC that has had starting problems after the first 1000 miles. I have had a new starter, clutch basket and clutch bearing. They now tell me it's the main shaft bearings and we are waiting for parts. Any thoughts?
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sblade1948

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 12:15:20 PM »

This was a friends stock 96. Bike was out of warranty but H-D covered it. Have heard of others taht did same thing.
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FR8TRN

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 12:33:41 PM »

This was a friends stock 96. Bike was out of warranty but H-D covered it. Have heard of others taht did same thing.

What year is that??  Cause it looks reliefed around the front so the rotor can come out, mine was just the opposite, a defined ridge in that area stopping the rotor.
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sblade1948

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 09:22:29 AM »

07
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SBB

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 09:35:02 AM »

As usual I'm confused,  What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.


quote from sadunbar
Quote


I believe the prime motivator for the redesigned compensator was the scissoring crankshafts.  The SE compensator reduces shock load transfer to the crankshaft.   The issue is both pre and current 110's....as the crankshaft has not changed.


SBB
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FR8TRN

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 10:35:50 AM »

07

Like to know why in the hell mine has a ridge preventing it then...damn...I always get the hard crap....
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FR8TRN

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2010, 10:38:37 AM »

As usual I'm confused, I just had my starter replaced along with new rotors and the TBW issue resolved for now. What exactly is the function of the compensator? When do you know when one is needed? Is this just a thing to do in just in case because I'm getting tired of fixing things that should have been done right the first time. Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks

Ray G.

When I opened up mine, there was alot of slop in the compensator, nearly a quarter turn.  The springs on the back side aren't applying enough pressure, you could hear it in the starter.  I installed a shim since it was easier than pulling the inner primary at the time.  It's better for now, but I'll pull and replace over the winter, unless it gets worse before then, in which case I'll bite the bullet and do it sooner.
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Texas 103

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 08:33:06 PM »

I can't think of any compelling reason not to, other than the expense.  After all, it's basically what's in the Trikes and the 2010 CVO's.  I guess my question would be, do you have an issue that you think this part would fix?  If you currently have a weak compensator that is causing problems, before I'd pay H-D extra money to fix their problem I'd invite them to do so under warranty.  If you aren't currently experiencing any compensator related problems but just want to upgrade for peace of mind or whatever, only you can tell if it's worth the expense involved.


Jerry
If you tell them it kicks back and starts hard. and you are on good terms with you dealer..They can get that done under warranty...did it twice....
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guppytrash

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2010, 08:50:36 PM »

OK help me out; but in neutral why is the compensator having any affect on the start?
My 09 is getting a new starter because it starts like the ACR's are off.  They are on and working but my starter is struggling so I am getting a new one under warranty.  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 03:23:35 PM by guppytrash »
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FR8TRN

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2010, 08:59:21 PM »

OK help me out but in neutral why is the compensator having any affect on the start?
My 09 is getting a new starter because it start like the ACR's are off.  They are on and working but my starter is struggling so I am getting a new one under warranty.  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???


Look at the pic up farther, the starter works by turning the clutch which turns the primary chain which turns the compesator which turns the engine which then starts, gear selection has nothing to do with any of that, however, starting in neutral means the starter doesn't have to fight the friction in the clutch plates as well as turn the engine.  When you hit the start button and hear a "bang" as it starts to crank, thats the compensator.
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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2010, 09:27:13 PM »

  From what I am reading my problem may not be the starter???


Most likely it's the compensator.

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guppytrash

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2010, 03:27:14 PM »

Ok ...but I still dont understand how the compensator is causing extra drag on the starter.  What part of the compensator do I need to look at to see if there is a failure?

I don't want to trash another starter.
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sadunbar

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2010, 08:54:14 PM »

Ok ...but I still dont understand how the compensator is causing extra drag on the starter.  What part of the compensator do I need to look at to see if there is a failure?

I don't want to trash another starter.

Attached is a drawing of the SE compensator - page 3 of the PDF..
 
Parts 6 and 7 are "Belleville" spring washers.  They create the clamp force.
 
Part 3 is the sliding cam.  Part 4 is the compensating sprocket.
 
Part 3 is driven by the crankshaft via the splines.  Part 4 drives the primary chain to the clutch.  So the transfer of power from the motor to the drivetrain via the clutch happens between these parts.
 
Parts 3 and 4 are clamped to each other with force created by the spring washers.  Part 3 has three ramps that protrude between the three webs on Part 4.  
 
The idea is the spring pressure is adequate to keep the Part 3 ramps from ever bottoming on the Part 4 webs, eliminating shock load on the crankshaft (and starter during when starting the motor).
 
The stock compensator does not have adequate spring pressure to prevent this from happening on the stock 110, much less on an improved stock 110.
 
If the ramps do bottom on the webs, it is a solid "clunk" that gets transferred to the crankshaft like hitting it with a hammer.  It doesn't produce a "grinding" noise, just a solid "clunk".  
 
The only real weakness in this design is part 9.  It is a fiber washer.  As the fiber washer wears, it will get thinner, and reduces the clamp force the spring pressure creates.  Over time, this fiber washer should be replaced.  I replaced mine after about 8,000 miles.  It had reduced in thickness by about .010 after 8,000 miles.
 
I've seen the fiber washer disintegrate before.  Broken into pieces.    Most likely because the "mechanic" tightened fastener #9 with an impact wrench instead of following the torque procedure in the instructions.  Previous compensators were supposed to be tightened with an impact wrench.  The SE compensator fastener cannot be tightened with a impact wrench, because it could crack and fracture this washer - and eventually fail and fall apart.  So if there is anything that could be done wrong during installation, that is it.
 
One other thing that could be done wrong during assembly is to install the spring washers wrong.  They have to be orientated exactly as shown, otherwise the spring pressure would be reduced, which would result in insufficient clamp force.  That is why they have a separate picture of the orientation of Page 1 of the PDF.  It is critical the spring washers are orientated correctly.
 
A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 08:56:43 PM by sadunbar »
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aclass

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Re: Screamin' Eagle Big Twin Compensator
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2010, 09:04:20 PM »

 :2vrolijk_21:  Darn good explanation!
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