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[SBB]

Well that explains a lot.
Thanks Scott!
In my case the starter was fine, the clunk was the stock compensator slipping.
After adding the new Screamin Eagle compensator 2500 miles ago the clunking sound is a distant memory.

SBB

[SIX38]

CASE CLOSED. SE Compensator on order.

Thanks everyone for the "as always" great info!!

Tom P.

[guppytrash]

A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 

Thanks sadunbar

I was not able to wrap my head around the compensator designed to "absorb" the shock of over 100ft/lbs of torque from the engine to not "twist" "scissor" something as strong as the crank was playing a role in the start sequence.
I get it now... the compensator must be very "progressive in it's dampening".  
This quote sums up exactly what has happened to my starter.  The starter clutch is being hammered and that is why I am hearing more and more on each start.
THANKS!
Now I can go into the dealer and explain this to them, and why I need to get this replaced.  Not looking forward to the battle with HD, seems fairly obvious this is the cure as opposed to multiple starter replacements.  My service manager is really good so it should not be a problem.  
  

[HDDOCFL]

Attached is a drawing of the SE compensator - page 3 of the PDF..
 
Parts 6 and 7 are "Belleville" spring washers.  They create the clamp force.
 
Part 3 is the sliding cam.  Part 4 is the compensating sprocket.
 
Part 3 is driven by the crankshaft via the splines.  Part 4 drives the primary chain to the clutch.  So the transfer of power from the motor to the drivetrain via the clutch happens between these parts.
 
Parts 3 and 4 are clamped to each other with force created by the spring washers.  Part 3 has three ramps that protrude between the three webs on Part 4.  
 
The idea is the spring pressure is adequate to keep the Part 3 ramps from ever bottoming on the Part 4 webs, eliminating shock load on the crankshaft (and starter during when starting the motor).
 
The stock compensator does not have adequate spring pressure to prevent this from happening on the stock 110, much less on an improved stock 110.
 
If the ramps do bottom on the webs, it is a solid "clunk" that gets transferred to the crankshaft like hitting it with a hammer.  It doesn't produce a "grinding" noise, just a solid "clunk".  
 
The only real weakness in this design is part 9.  It is a fiber washer.  As the fiber washer wears, it will get thinner, and reduces the clamp force the spring pressure creates.  Over time, this fiber washer should be replaced.  I replaced mine after about 8,000 miles.  It had reduced in thickness by about .010 after 8,000 miles.
 
I've seen the fiber washer disintegrate before.  Broken into pieces.    Most likely because the "mechanic" tightened fastener #9 with an impact wrench instead of following the torque procedure in the instructions.  Previous compensators were supposed to be tightened with an impact wrench.  The SE compensator fastener cannot be tightened with a impact wrench, because it could crack and fracture this washer - and eventually fail and fall apart.  So if there is anything that could be done wrong during installation, that is it.
 
One other thing that could be done wrong during assembly is to install the spring washers wrong.  They have to be orientated exactly as shown, otherwise the spring pressure would be reduced, which would result in insufficient clamp force.  That is why they have a separate picture of the orientation of Page 1 of the PDF.  It is critical the spring washers are orientated correctly.
 
A compensator that is to weak for the application, or a compensator with weakened springs can damage a starter just like it can damage the crankshaft.  As the motor is started, if the compensator is weak enough to "bottom out"  - the starter takes the same shock that the crankshaft experiences.  This can easily damage the clutch within the starter.
 

I have to wonder why the fiber washer is used on the SE Compensator assm. in the first place and why you could not just install a metal spacer instead of having to go in the primary and replace that fiber washer after only 8,000 miles. ?  I have not seen one in my hands yet, but see no reason not to use a metal spacer.  Thanks Doc

[Gamma742]

The PDF file says 2007 and later.. Will this S.E. Compensator NOT work on my 06 SEUC 103 engine?

[grc]

The PDF file says 2007 and later.. Will this S.E. Compensator NOT work on my 06 SEUC 103 engine?

Totally different design and it will not work on the previous design engines.  Your '06 model doesn't need an upgrade, Harley didn't screw up the stock compensator until 2007.  Just make sure the nut is torqued properly using the latest method and specification.


Jerry

[sadunbar]

Totally different design and it will not work on the previous design engines.  Your '06 model doesn't need an upgrade, Harley didn't screw up the stock compensator or screw up the crankshaft until 2007.  Just make sure the nut is torqued properly using the latest method and specification.


Jerry

 

[FR8TRN]

Interesting that all 2011 Touring models will now use the SE Compensator.....very interesting....

[sawyerghost]

I understand the compensator has issues, and it's function.
However, I just replaced my starter and so far the clunking issues that we all have had with our original equipment no longer exists for me.
Hopefully this result will continue.

[grc]

Interesting that all 2011 Touring models will now use the SE Compensator.....very interesting....

Don't suppose the mothership is getting tired of paying to fix all those starter drives and clunking noises, and finally figured it might be smarter to use the better (more expensive) parts in production? 

Don't worry, however.  If you peruse the other changes for 2011 you will find that they have cheapened more than enough in other areas to make up the difference.  I especially like the elimination of the bushings in the cam plate and rods, and there are too many others to mention in this thread.  I'm sure we'll be cussing/discussing them elsewhere.


Jerry 

[FR8TRN]

Don't suppose the mothership is getting tired of paying to fix all those starter drives and clunking noises, and finally figured it might be smarter to use the better (more expensive) parts in production? 

Don't worry, however.  If you peruse the other changes for 2011 you will find that they have cheapened more than enough in other areas to make up the difference.  I especially like the elimination of the bushings in the cam plate and rods, and there are too many others to mention in this thread.  I'm sure we'll be cussing/discussing them elsewhere.

Jerry 

Year after year they never cease to amaze me.....fixing non-existing issues....only to replace them with new ones. 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Year after year they never cease to amaze me.....fixing non-existing issues....only to replace them with new ones. 

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

[grc]

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

That's usually a pretty good indicator that they have a major problem. 

I wonder if they plan to reimburse all those who had to buy one from the catalog to fix their 2007-2009 models on their own?  Yeah, I know, when pigs fly.


Jerry

[FR8TRN]

My bike went in yesterday anticipating compensator replacement. Dealer set the appointment a week in advance anticipating this was the problem. Arrived 8a.m. yesterday, pulled bike apart, said yup the compensator needs replacement let me see if we have one. Nope, not in stock and on national back order. Supposedly had one overnighted. Spoke with them at 10am this morning .. still not there.

Moral here ... make sure they put their hands on one before they take your bike apart 

Howie

I have one in the geerage....tell your dealer $1000 and I'll ship it overnight. LOL.....jokin of course.....no way I'm sellin it....

[guppytrash]

I have to wonder why the fiber washer is used on the SE Compensator assm. in the first place and why you could not just install a metal spacer instead of having to go in the primary and replace that fiber washer after only 8,000 miles. ?  I have not seen one in my hands yet, but see no reason not to use a metal spacer.  Thanks Doc

sadunbar

The fix is the SE compensator in your diagram?  Or is the diagram of the problem compensator I currently have in my 09?
I hate to think I am going to buy the new compensator and then be replacing washers in it every 8000 miles. 
And thanks for the explanation.  I am thinking MOCO is not going to fix this for me under warranty without a battle.