www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Social => Other Topics => Topic started by: GregKhougaz on September 01, 2022, 06:08:15 PM
-
Usually, when OP's ask for subjective opinions my thought is, "It's your money... ." Been on Road Glides since 2003 with the current RGU since January 2015: 2015 RGU: I'm Blue... So Blue... (https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=99868.0) Lifters on the 110 caved at 15,000 miles and my SERG3 did the same at about 25,000. Not very enamored with Harley these days but the 110 runs great and the bike looks new and has no issues at 44,000 miles. Just never sure it won't happen again. Cost of the new CVO RG Limited seems insulting for what you get. (Subjective and I've not ridden one.) So, thinking about a BMW K1600 Grand America. Dealer nearby has one new for me to ride this weekend. :confused5:
I ride with an LEO Bike Club which now allows non-Harleys. We ride 2X2 and don't worry about tickets. Lots of fun twisties in my area and I want to travel on the bike as worry free as practical. I could keep both bikes but not sure I ride enough for that to make sense. I can't find a single negative comment about the BMW online.
Thoughts on the Grand America? Any experience on one or the BMW GTL? Thanks in advance.
GK
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2022-bmw-k-1600-grand-america-first-look-luxury-touring-motorcycle-22.jpg)
-
It's a trend here locally. Two longtime HD owners that I ride with just traded their Harleys - 1 Street Glide & 1 Road Glide - for brand new BMW touring bikes. Not for me, unless something changes am probably on my last bike & if I was looking to buy it would be something other than a new HD but doubt would be a BMW.
Reasons they gave were - new HD prices compared to "what you get" made the BMWs a better fit for them. Handling, power, features, etc. for them all helped make them decide to go - as they say - to the dark side. I no longer ride with the HOG club, most of the guys I ride with don't, and there is no "HD only" requirement among our riding groups.
As far as personal experience - no help here. Will say that each of these guys, plus the others in our group that own BMWs are very pleased. Not to say the BMWs don't have their issues that require trips to the shop. Except here there is no local shop - these guys travel about 200 miles away for service because no local BMW dealer. There is a local HD dealer. That alone says a lot.
Good luck on your decision, 2 wheels are better than 4 no matter what the brand is.
-
Usually, when OP's ask for subjective opinions my thought is, "It's your money... ." Been on Road Glides since 2003 with the current RGU since January 2015: 2015 RGU: I'm Blue... So Blue... (https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=99868.0) Lifters on the 110 caved at 15,000 miles and my SERG3 did the same at about 25,000. Not very enamored with Harley these days but the 110 runs great and the bike looks new and has no issues at 44,000 miles. Just never sure it won't happen again. Cost of the new CVO RG Limited seems insulting for what you get. (Subjective and I've not ridden one.) So, thinking about a BMW K1600 Grand America. Dealer nearby has one new for me to ride this weekend. :confused5:
I ride with an LEO Bike Club which now allows non-Harleys. We ride 2X2 and don't worry about tickets. Lots of fun twisties in my area and I want to travel on the bike as worry free as practical. I could keep both bikes but not sure I ride enough for that to make sense. I can't find a single negative comment about the BMW online.
Thoughts on the Grand America? Any experience on one or the BMW GTL? Thanks in advance.
GK
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2022-bmw-k-1600-grand-america-first-look-luxury-touring-motorcycle-22.jpg)
well....look at the picture of the BMW....no emotions come across! From a technical point of view, it is definitely better than any Harley by a factor, but nothing for the eye, the experience and the feeling of riding a Harley.
I've been riding a Harley since 1996, currently a CVO 2021 Street Glide, none have disappointed me so far, and I haven't had any technical problems either. I ride an average of 12,000km a year and every time I come home from a ride I'm happy with the bike. I would always buy a Harley, but due to my age there won't be many anymore. ;D
-
For many no bike speaks to them like a Harley. Looks and emotion wise its hard to beat a Harley.
That said, the touring line is very dated to say the least. Frame is a 2009 design. Suspension pretty much the same with minor improvements. They finally have traction control. The M8 is a huge improvement over the TC.
The competition in touring bikes, the BMW and Goldwing have Harley beat in everything but looks honestly. Their suspension is much better, they handle better also. They have many ride modes, their engines are more powerful. They have much more modern technology.
Rode the BMW GTL a few years ago. Very impressed with handling and performance.
It will be a hard decision for me when I replace my 19 CVO Road Glide. Hopefully when the time comes Harley will have updated the touring line a lot.
Harley is capable of making a bike with great suspension, good power, good handling and lots of ride modes. My Pan America Special, has all that. It stands up well to the competition in its market segment. It is very quick, and fast also. You can set the ride up for smooth interstate blasting, or firm it up for ripping the corners. You can set the throttle response you want, and so much more you can set up. Why cant harley give us this on a touring bike at a reasonable price?
-
That photo does not make me think "wow, I gotta have one of those". Your comments make me think you are trying to talk yourself into it.
-
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=123603.msg1531676#msg1531676
Also, there is a forum for BMW Bagger and Grand America owners and I'm sure that fb has their groups, also.
Steve that owns Fullsac has done some modifications to his B.
-
It’s not treason, it’s forward thinking.
I considered the BMW too, but with as much touring as we do, I found Honda had more dealerships nation wide. Yes the Grand America is a bit faster, but I found it to be top heavy compared to the GoldWing. And in Sport mode the GoldWing will run right with it. Some folks flat out refuse to own a Japanese bike and I guess that’s up to them. I just came back from the Bend, OR ride and the GoldWing did great. Pulling a trailer I averaged 50mpgs on the road, and it takes 87 octane. The BMW requires premium.
You’re a Porsche owner so I can see why the BMW is attractive to you. Go ahead and get it. If you don’t like it you can get rid of it and get something else.
-
Usually, when OP's ask for subjective opinions my thought is, "It's your money... ." Been on Road Glides since 2003 with the current RGU since January 2015: 2015 RGU: I'm Blue... So Blue... (https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=99868.0) Lifters on the 110 caved at 15,000 miles and my SERG3 did the same at about 25,000. Not very enamored with Harley these days but the 110 runs great and the bike looks new and has no issues at 44,000 miles. Just never sure it won't happen again. Cost of the new CVO RG Limited seems insulting for what you get. (Subjective and I've not ridden one.) So, thinking about a BMW K1600 Grand America. Dealer nearby has one new for me to ride this weekend. :confused5:
I ride with an LEO Bike Club which now allows non-Harleys. We ride 2X2 and don't worry about tickets. Lots of fun twisties in my area and I want to travel on the bike as worry free as practical. I could keep both bikes but not sure I ride enough for that to make sense. I can't find a single negative comment about the BMW online.
Thoughts on the Grand America? Any experience on one or the BMW GTL? Thanks in advance.
GK
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2022-bmw-k-1600-grand-america-first-look-luxury-touring-motorcycle-22.jpg)
Greg, have you had a chance to ride one yet? I know you prefer to buy new, but I remembered Naveen has a friend who has one for sale. It's Bill S. the retired judge. He, Naveen and I used to go trap shooting out in Azusa. He's meticulous so I know the bike is well maintained.
-
Rode a new Grand America, yesterday. The fit, finish, handling, suspension & power are impressive. (160 HP / 132 Ft/lbs in a 785 lbs bike.) It was 34 miles to the dealer during which the CVO felt great. On the way home (in the heat 🔥), it felt like a slug. Even my Progressive front and Legend rear suspension (with external canisters) felt primitive. Still, the CVO got plenty of attention and compliments ate the BMW shop. The '22 K1600s underwent a significant upgrade so I'm probably not interested in used. No changes to the 23s which will arrive in February. Loaded, I can be out the door for about $32 - 33K. That is $17 - 20K (depending on color) less than a new CVO Road Glide Limited. Yes, I'm a Porsche guy... Power, speed and German engineering are addictive. I've enjoyed the Harley experience but this would be fun. :coolblue:
The dealerships are farther apart but reliability seems better and their roadside assistance program is excellent, including trip interruption. Free loaners for service which is definitely less than Harley. Far fewer customization options but I can live with that. Not sure I can live with the chrome trash can mufflers but...
-
I work at a BMW car dealership for 12 years as a service manager. I started back riding in 2015 on a SGS. Then In 2016 bought my first CVO, could have bought a BMW for invoice plus any incentives, the Harley just seemed a good fit what I was looking for, except for the lifers lol!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Rode a new Grand America, yesterday. The fit, finish, handling, suspension & power are impressive. (160 HP / 132 Ft/lbs in a 785 lbs bike.) It was 34 miles to the dealer during which the CVO felt great. On the way home (in the heat 🔥), it felt like a slug. Even my Progressive front and Legend rear suspension (with external canisters) felt primitive. Still, the CVO got plenty of attention and compliments ate the BMW shop. The '22 K1600s underwent a significant upgrade so I'm probably not interested in used. No changes to the 23s which will arrive in February. Loaded, I can be out the door for about $32 - 33K. That is $17 - 20K (depending on color) less than a new CVO Road Glide Limited. Yes, I'm a Porsche guy... Power, speed and German engineering are addictive. I've enjoyed the Harley experience but this would be fun. :coolblue:
The dealerships are farther apart but reliability seems better and their roadside assistance program is excellent, including trip interruption. Free loaners for service which is definitely less than Harley. Far fewer customization options but I can live with that. Not sure I can live with the chrome trash can mufflers but...
Greg,
One thing you will love is a fully water cooled engine. On the way back from the Bend, OR GTG I hit temps around 111 degrees. I know the CVO Ultra would not have liked it and thrown off even more heat. The water cooled GoldWing ran without a hitch. Every now and then the radiator fan would kick on but that's it.
The other thing you will like is the power windscreen and reverse. The windscreen is a fun feature, but reverse is AWESOME! Sloped parking lots, gravel surfaces are so much easier with reverse. I don't understand why reverse is not available from the factory on the Harley touring line. With all the Boomers getting knees and hips replaced, you would think the Moco would add reverse to keep up with the aging demographics of their buyers.
-
Greg, I have 2 CVO Roadglides (12 and 19) and a 19 Grand America, totally different bikes! I can only ride on the weekends and I will ride the GA one day and a RG the next as I have 46000 miles on the GA, 42000 on th 19 RG and 85000 on the 12 RG though obviously had that bike for 7 years before getting the 19's a few weeks apart (the RD was a lemon law settlement with Harley due to sumping which was why I got the BMW thinking I was going to battle with them for years). Just to be clear the 160 hp on the GA is at the crank so the hp between my RG's (have a S&S 124 on the 12 and a 131 kit on the 19) is very close though the RG's definitely have more torque.
good and bad between bikes IMHO:
the GTS radio on the 19 is great, the system on the GA is horrible. They have upgraded that system on the 22 but still does not use Apple Play which I love on my RG's (went aftermarket head unit on my 12).
Though I have Ohlin's front and rear on both RG's, the stock suspension on the GA is a world above with its rear mono shock and front Duolever.
Though I have full Remus exhaust on the GA which does sound great for a BMW, doesn't compare to either my Boarzilla's on my 12 RG or my Fullsac with TAB Zombies on my 19 RG
Under around 4000 rpm the GA is a dog and the RG's are great, above the GA is absolutely insanely fun and the RG's couldn't touch it. I do have the GA tuned by a local guy that tuned the world record naturally aspirated BMW at bonneville (owner of BMW motorcycles os San Diego owner that bike) so the speed limiter of 100 which comes stock is off and he got another 15 HP out of it.
Comfort wise the GA has a higher seat height and put on a Russel Day Long seat which is incredibly comfortable so if I am going go go over 400 miles in a day I always pick it.
I did put the same sound system on the GA as I put on the RG's but ended up being a major project as the system that came on the GA was complete crap with no room to upgrade. My stereo guy ended up having to fabricate both new front and rears which once we figured that out we were too far in to stop. That was not fun!
I could go on and on but think this is already my longest post ever..
I only share this as I know many are considering the GA now and every weekend I get asked "if I could only have 1 bike". My answer is always the same-"its the bike I am riding that day"!
though both bike in "same class" technically, they are completely different but I love them both!
-
Be careful when buying a BMW built recently. They are having supply chain issues and some of the late 2022 and early 2023 model options like the LED headlight, electronic adjustable suspension, radar cruise control, etc. may not be available on all models; they are substituting halogen headlights. Just be sure to verify the one you are buying has all the options. Good luck..... I added a new 2021 R1250 GSA to my CVO stable last year and enjoy both bikes!
-
Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the informative and helpful comments! I just sent off the wire to Long Beach BMW for the bike, 4-year warranty extension and wheel & tire package. I would love to keep the CVO but there is no room in the garage. Now, when H-D updates the touring frame... I think this will be fun for a while and like a Harley guy, I'm already thinking of mods... Anyone interested in some H-D Jackets?
JC, I had seen that thread but thank you! Your memory is impeccable.
Mark, Yes, water cooling! Noticed the lack of heat on the 95* test ride.
Alan, Very helpful! The new GA's have updated electronics, stereo and a 10" + touchscreen that controls everything.
Flydog, Correct but this one is OK. That is why there are very few out there, however.
Dave, Correct on the visceral. But speed is addictive. I rode the Pan America and thought it would be a great second bike.
Again, thank you all!
-
What about an Indian Pursuit?
Suspension is better, motor is plenty strong, ride modes, and it is an American machine
-
Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the informative and helpful comments! I just sent off the wire to Long Beach BMW for the bike, 4-year warranty extension and wheel & tire package. I would love to keep the CVO but there is no room in the garage. Now, when H-D updates the touring frame... I think this will be fun for a while and like a Harley guy, I'm already thinking of mods... Anyone interested in some H-D Jackets?
JC, I had seen that thread but thank you! Your memory is impeccable.
Mark, Yes, water cooling! Noticed the lack of heat on the 95* test ride.
Alan, Very helpful! The new GA's have updated electronics, stereo and a 10" + touchscreen that controls everything.
Flydog, Correct but this one is OK. That is why there are very few out there, however.
Dave, Correct on the visceral. But speed is addictive. I rode the Pan America and thought it would be a great second bike.
Again, thank you all!
Greg,
Congrats on the new purchase! You bought more than a motorcycle, you bought peace of mind. No more going on a cross country trip and worrying about when the lifters will grenade. Although you didn't mention it, once you use it you're going to love reverse!
It's a shame you can't keep the CVO RGU. Maybe build a ramp, slide the grand piano over and park it in the house.
I imagine you will be joining BMW forums. Will we lose your knowledge and wisdom here? I hope not.
Mark
-
Thanks, Mark. I suspect I'll be around. There is a lot more than just Harley knowledge here. Looks like I'll be selling a few things:
Condor chock
Pitbull motorcycle lift
Miscellaneous jackets including the coveted Screaming Eagle jacket (Large)
A set of H-D 13 inch coilover shocks
Tour pack detach kit
-
I'm sure I'll think of more. The 34 mile ride home from Long Beach BMW was a hoot. Temperature hit 104* but no heat rising from the water cooled 6.
-
Ordered the Akrapovic silencers. Oh those trash cans! :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Going to miss the CVO.
-
Ordered the Akrapovic silencers. Oh those trash cans! Going to miss the CVO.
Greg,
Have you heard the Remus exhaust for the Bimmer? I think it has a bit more bite. Like JC said check with Steve at FullSac.
Mark
-
here is a couple pics with the Remus exhaust and RDL seat
-
Pic 2
-
and of course a few other "Harley" touches-full Remus exhaust, blacked out just about everything including the blue in the BMW roundel, real rear and front speakers, additional lights, pull car risers and mini apes (have ones another inch taller on now).
BTW, JC is to blame for this bike. When I was fighting with Harley on my buy back he talked me into trying this bike when he was about to get one. I pulled the trigger and he backed out. Like the guy that says "lets jump together, ready 1,2,3, jump.."
-
and of course a few other "Harley" touches-full Remus exhaust, blacked out just about everything including the blue in the BMW roundel, real rear and front speakers, additional lights, pull car risers and mini apes (have ones another inch taller on now).
BTW, JC is to blame for this bike. When I was fighting with Harley on my buy back he talked me into trying this bike when he was about to get one. I pulled the trigger and he backed out. Like the guy that says "lets jump together, ready 1,2,3, jump.."
Alan, did you have to get a tune after installing the Remus exhaust or was it just a swap and ride?
-
Greg,
Have you heard the Remus exhaust for the Bimmer? I think it has a bit more bite. Like JC said check with Steve at FullSac.
Mark
Yes, heard both. The dealer's service department says there is no need to retune. Bren tuning, however, has a stage 1 tune for the Grand America and it will take into account any mods. It renders a little more power but more importantly, smoother throttle response and it removes the speed limiter of 105 mph.
-
here is a couple pics with the Remus exhaust and RDL seat
👍👍 That bike is sick! 👍👍
-
here is a couple pics with the Remus exhaust and RDL seat
Please don't post any more pics of that bike. Seriously, please, don't do it again. It hurts my pledge to not be interested in new bikes.... ???
-
Alan, did you have to get a tune after installing the Remus exhaust or was it just a swap and ride?
I did a tune but didn't need to. I wanted to get rid of the 101 limiter the GA comes with as well as fix the throttle response on the 19. I hear the 22 doesn't have the throttle response issue. If you don't have a issue with the limiter you don't need a tune if you are ok with stock power (which for sure is significant)
-
Yes, heard both. The dealer's service department says there is no need to retune. Bren tuning, however, has a stage 1 tune for the Grand America and it will take into account any mods. It renders a little more power but more importantly, smoother throttle response and it removes the speed limiter of 105 mph.
Greg, if you decide to tune the guy that tuned mine is same guy that tuned the world record Bonneville BMW bike for BMW San Diego that the dealer turned me onto. I did the Bren tune first and put about 30000 miles on it. Definitely a difference but when this guy did it (dealer talked me into it) it was like a different bike! Cost was around $600 if my memory correct. Best money I spent on that bike!
His info is Curtice Thom email-skrmotoflash@gmil.com 619-888-5850
-
It’s not treason, it’s forward thinking.
I considered the BMW too, but with as much touring as we do, I found Honda had more dealerships nation wide. Yes the Grand America is a bit faster, but I found it to be top heavy compared to the GoldWing. And in Sport mode the GoldWing will run right with it. Some folks flat out refuse to own a Japanese bike and I guess that’s up to them. I just came back from the Bend, OR ride and the GoldWing did great. Pulling a trailer I averaged 50mpgs on the road, and it takes 87 octane. The BMW requires premium.
You’re a Porsche owner so I can see why the BMW is attractive to you. Go ahead and get it. If you don’t like it you can get rid of it and get something else.
THe local Stealer also sells BMW... there is a GTL sitting on the right side of the doorway, and its been there over a year... Everytime I walk in for parts I look at it... I actually like the color.
BUT, from my years in the automotive industry, and my time owning a meticulously maintained 633csi, the acronym "BIG MONEY WASTED" resonates in my head every time I look at that bike.
European vehicle = European maintenance costs. = $$$$ nothing is cheap, or ever available on island for us here.
THe local police department went away from HD years ago due to reliablilty issues... the death-wobble, etc. I think it was more rider error than the bikes.
I looked at Indian.. ick. cant do it... What do they say about insanty repeating itself?